roxithro/bactrim effective as IV abx for late lyme

[heapsreal]

Not sure if this has been posted before but its worth posting it again i guess, especially if just as effective as IV abx which is harder to get for lyme treatment for many? Doses seem higher than normally used but treatment length is only 5 weeks, with a higher percentage having sustained benefits.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7782115

Abstract
Spirochaetal infections have been successfully treated with penicillin; more recently, erythromycin has been used in cases with known penicillin allergy. The discovery of the spirochaete Borrelia burgdorferi and the elaboration of a new generation of macrolides with properties that differ from older macrolides have led to new ways of treating spirochaetal disease with these compounds. This paper presents data on the in vitro and in vivo efficacy of a combination of roxithromycin and co-trimoxazole against B. burgdorferi. In vitro (checkerboard technique; B. burgdorferi strain B31; modified BSK II medium) it was found that while roxithromycin showed excellent efficacy against B. burgdorferi (MIC 0.031 mg/l), co-trimoxazole had no effect. However, the combination of both chemotherapeutics led to a minor synergistic effect, decreasing the MIC for roxithromycin by one dilution step at concentrations of co-trimoxazole from 256 to 8 mg/l. In addition, a clearly reduced growth of microorganisms was seen at concentrations of roxithromycin as low as 0.015 mg/l in combination with 256 to 4 mg/l co-trimoxazole, when compared to the positive controls. Most interestingly, however, the motility of B. burgdorferi was markedly reduced even when the two drugs were combined at very low concentrations. In an in vivo, non-randomised, open, prospective pilot study it was found that of 17 patients with confirmed late Lyme borreliosis (stage II/III), treated with combined roxithromycin (300 mg b.i.d.) and co-trimoxazole for 5 weeks, 13 (76%) recovered completely by the end of treatment, and four continued to have symptoms on follow-up at 6 and 12 months. This success rate is similar to that seen with i.v. penicillin and ceftriaxone. It appears that the reduced motility of B. burgdorferi makes the pathogen more accessible to the immune system.

 

[Martial]

So very low dose antibiotics that more effectively target the pathogen? Sounds pretty promising, if I ever need to go the antibiotic route in the future will definitely take this into consideration.

 

[heapsreal]

I found this link interesting, http://www.cpnhelp.org/roxybactrim_question

THE LANCET, VOL. 336, (NOV 10, 1990) p. 1189f.

Oral treatment of late borreliosis with roxithromycin
plus co-trimoxazole

SIR, - Early, but not late, Lyme borreliosis has been successfully
treated with oral antibioticsi such as penicillins, erythromycin, and
tetracycline. The possibility of an oral treatement is desirable,
especially in view of the great difficulties that arise with long-lasting
intravenous treatment in third-world countries.(1, 2)
Various workers have shown relapses and failure of treatment in late
Lyme borreliosis(adrodermatitits chronica atrophicans, arthritis,
neuroborreliosis) even with high doses of intravenous penicillin or
ceftriaxone. (2, 3)
Treatment that is both orally applicable and effective is certainly
needed.(2) Co-trimoxazole is a powerful antibiotic combination to
which many microorganisms respond, including the spirochaete
Treponema pallidum. Furthermore, it has been show that the new
macrolides(such as roxithromycin) show a remarkable antimicrobial
activity angaint B burgdorferi.(4,5)
It is noteworthy that the blood/brain barrier is highly permeable
to roxithromycin.
A 30-year-old man infected with B burgdorferi 7 years ago was
successfully treated with a combination of roxithromycin(300 mg
twice daily) and trimethoprim/sulphamethoxazole(320 mg/1600 mg
twice daily) after both intraveous penicillin(20 million IU
daily ober 3 weeks) and later ceftriaxone 2 g twice daily for 3 weeks)
had failed (figure {not included} ). Both intravenous penicillin
and ceftriaxone reduced the symptoms transiently, while IgGi remained
positive.
However, shortly after a 3-week course of roxithromycin/co-trimoxazole
all symptoms disappeared and a recent assessment of IgG revealed a
negative titre. The recovery of the patient's neurological
disorders was strikingly rapid, possibly because of the high
permeability of the blood/brain barrier to roxithromycin. Thus,
albeit in only 1 patient, we have shown successful oral treatment of
late Lyme borreliosis with a combination of roxithromycin and
co-trimoxazole.

 

[heapsreal]

So very low dose antibiotics that more effectively target the pathogen? Sounds pretty promising, if I ever need to go the antibiotic route in the future will definitely take this into consideration.

higher doses actually, roxi in the study given at 300mg twice a day, generally its 150mg twice a day. Promising part i think is that its a relatively short treatment course compared to many abx treatments which seem to last months and years.

 

[Martial]

300 mg is still not too bad compared to doses given in IV from what I have seen, hell I took higher doses then that just using things like Amoxicillan and Ceftin before. Looks very reasonable to me it would just be more effective if they came out with something that would shut down the spirochete replication cycle already, there is plenty of info and research into it already using a protein in the bacterial enzyme that feeds on mangenese and turning that off to starve it out.

 

[heapsreal]

300 mg is still not too bad compared to doses given in IV from what I have seen, hell I took higher doses then that just using things like Amoxicillan and Ceftin before. Looks very reasonable to me it would just be more effective if they came out with something that would shut down the spirochete replication cycle already, there is plenty of info and research into it already using a protein in the bacterial enzyme that feeds on mangenese and turning that off to starve it out.

I wonder if using doxy and augmentin for a couple of weeks for the spirochetes. But it seems the roxi/bactrim nail the whole disease but unsure?? Maybe finish off with some flagyl for cyst form. Im not sure at what stages does the roxi work on, usually macrolides cover the intracellular infections. I cant find where bactrim fits in unless its a cyst buster??

I need to read abit more into it.

It tweaked my interest has i have good effects from roxi and bactrim alone for sinuses, which im wonder is lyme?
NAC was suppose to help with cyst form??

 

[minkeygirl]

Just curious, would any of this work on M. Pneumonia or C. Pneumonia?

 

[Martial]

I wonder if using doxy and augmentin for a couple of weeks for the spirochetes. But it seems the roxi/bactrim nail the whole disease but unsure?? Maybe finish off with some flagyl for cyst form. Im not sure at what stages does the roxi work on, usually macrolides cover the intracellular infections. I cant find where bactrim fits in unless its a cyst buster??

I need to read abit more into it.

It tweaked my interest has i have good effects from roxi and bactrim alone for sinuses, which im wonder is lyme?
NAC was suppose to help with cyst form??

Maybe, I do know there are various other natural cyst busters that doctors often prescribe along with certain antibiotics, Serrapeptese and other enzymes seem to be the most popular and effective. Also some types of antibiotics can actually move right through bio film/cyst barriers.

As far as sinusitis being caused by Lyme I do know that the Lyme can inflame sinuses, however for some it hampers the immune system enough that fungal overgrowths usually take place in sensitive areas like the sinuses. Whether the lyme bacteria is also directly impactful within the sinus tissues themselves is hard to say but I would not doubt it. The bacteria can pretty much access or hang out in any part of the body after all.

Just curious, would any of this work on M. Pneumonia or C. Pneumonia?

Yes, I looked into it and one of the uses of these medications is certain types of pneumonia, especially antibiotic resistant or cyst forming ones.

 

[minkeygirl]

I've tested positive for M Pneumonia and C Pneumonia. I'm taking bactrim now and if adding Roxi will help? I've got some weird stuff that could or could not be the pneumonias.

 

[Martial]

I've tested positive for M Pneumonia and C Pneumonia. I'm taking bactrim now and if adding Roxi will help? I've got some weird stuff that could or could not be the pneumonias.

Should help, the Roxi works by stopping the growth and replication of certain bacteria. A perfect mix to the Bactrim which more directly targets the infection as an anti microbial.

 

[minkeygirl]

Thanks @Martial Not that expensive. Maybe $60 at the doses @heapsreal says.

 

[valentinelynx]

looks like roxithromycin is not approved in the U.S. So, if you want it, you need to go to the overseas online pharmacies. Not cheap.

 

[minkeygirl]

@valentinelynx i found it for around $60 including shipping for #150 150 mgs. That's enough if you go by heapsreals dosing if 300 mgs x/2. Additional quantities are sbout $12 for 30. That's really cheap.

 

[minkeygirl]

#150. $35.73
# 100 $23.81
#50 $12.13

Shipping is $25 from a reliable place. This is very cheap.

 

[minkeygirl]

What's the dose of the Bactrim? Standard for the DS?

 

[heapsreal]

Maybe, I do know there are various other natural cyst busters that doctors often prescribe along with certain antibiotics, Serrapeptese and other enzymes seem to be the most popular and effective. Also some types of antibiotics can actually move right through bio film/cyst barriers.

As far as sinusitis being caused by Lyme I do know that the Lyme can inflame sinuses, however for some it hampers the immune system enough that fungal overgrowths usually take place in sensitive areas like the sinuses. Whether the lyme bacteria is also directly impactful within the sinus tissues themselves is hard to say but I would not doubt it. The bacteria can pretty much access or hang out in any part of the body after all.

What cyst busters have you found effective?
I have tried serrapetase but didnt notice anything. The other thing that helped in the past was the BEG nasal spray with bactroban with gentamycin and edta for the cyst or biofilm busters. About to try it again with some oral abx.

 

[Dufresne]

What cyst busters have you found effective?
I have tried serrapetase but didnt notice anything. The other thing that helped in the past was the BEG nasal spray with bactroban with gentamycin and edta for the cyst or biofilm busters. About to try it again with some oral abx.

Obviously the 'dazoles. GSE works but feels toxic to me. Usnea is a good one that's also well tolerated.

Eva Sapi's study of Samento and Banderol suggests these are very effective. I think I'm going to go this way. Does anybody know how to get the 1:300 dilution she claims to be most effective? I understand her source of the herbs was Nutramedix, I just don't know how she arrives at those dilutions.
http://www.townsendletter.com/July2010/sapi0710.html

 

[heapsreal]

Caprylic Acid and Pau D' Arco herbs are popular with candida treatments but also seem to have antibacterial effects. Not sure if they would help with biofilms though?? Still need to research this.

 

[minkeygirl]

I use Thorne SF 722 for my candida. I think it's similar to caprylic acid.

 

[Martial]

Caprylic Acid and Pau D' Arco herbs are popular with candida treatments but also seem to have antibacterial effects. Not sure if they would help with biofilms though?? Still need to research this.

Most these herbal things actually bypass the cyst and bio film even if only a few actively break it down. The cool thing is if you kill everything off through passing that membrane then the film/cyst eventually goes anyways.