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Interesting result that matches my mothers symptoms

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
My mom has had fatigue issues her whole life and at one point was told she had fatty liver. She never told me this. The other day I ran a nutrahacker report on her 23andme data, and the following popped up. When I asked her about it, she admitted she had fatty liver:

Folate One-Carbon
Metabolism /
Methylation (FOCM)
rs7946 PEMT C TT: 2/2 16.8872% Converts
phosphatidylethanolamine to
phosphatidylcholine
Fatty liver due to low choline Phosphatidylcholine
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
This popped up on mine too, I'm TT as well. My liver appears to be in excellent health however.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
All her markers are perfect... AST, ALT, bilrubin. She had to get a ct scan and there was a spot.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
I reversed my fatty liver just by going gluten free. Cholesterol and triglicerids improved as well (lower inflammation).
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
It's interesting that the symptoms of fatty liver mirror adrenal fatigue. It also causes high cortisol, and even low cortisol.

It also mimics CFS a little bit, but it could be a co-morbid factor for CFS.

@halcyon have you ever had a liver biopsy or CT scan done? Fatty liver causes high cortisol.
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
Yes I had an abdominal CT scan done earlier this year with no abnormal findings on the liver. I do have elevated bilirubin on occasion but apparently that's inversely correlated with NAFLD.
 

Sea

Senior Member
Messages
1,286
Location
NSW Australia
My mom has had fatigue issues her whole life and at one point was told she had fatty liver. She never told me this. The other day I ran a nutrahacker report on her 23andme data, and the following popped up. When I asked her about it, she admitted she had fatty liver:

Folate One-Carbon
Metabolism /
Methylation (FOCM)
rs7946 PEMT C TT: 2/2 16.8872% Converts
phosphatidylethanolamine to
phosphatidylcholine
Fatty liver due to low choline Phosphatidylcholine

This is a very common snp, I am also TT. Prevalence rates for homozygous TT range from around 13% in Asians to
56% in Europeans.
The following study says that those with fatty liver do have this snp more often than not, but those who have this snp are not more likely to have fatty liver than those who don't. There is some loss of function from the missense mutation but by itself it is not a cause of fatty liver.
http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/12/2181.full.pdf
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
Thanks for the post. I guess I was looking at the overall prevalence that nutrahacker has which is around 16% (genotype frequency).

I noticed another gene which may compound the problem, and cause a reduction in choline levels. So maybe it takes a combination:

Folate One-Carbon
Metabolism /
Methylation (FOCM)
rs2236225 MTHFD1 G AA: 2/2 13.0933% Three distinct enzymatic activities
related to folate
Increased requirement for choline Choline

In any case I would still say fatty liver could mirror allot of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue / CFS, even without a genetic way to determine it.
 

Sea

Senior Member
Messages
1,286
Location
NSW Australia
Thanks for the post. I guess I was looking at the overall prevalence that nutrahacker has which is around 16% (genotype frequency).

I noticed another gene which may compound the problem, and cause a reduction in choline levels. So maybe it takes a combination:

Folate One-Carbon
Metabolism /
Methylation (FOCM)
rs2236225 MTHFD1 G AA: 2/2 13.0933% Three distinct enzymatic activities
related to folate
Increased requirement for choline Choline

In any case I would still say fatty liver could mirror allot of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue / CFS, even without a genetic way to determine it.

Unfortunately Nutrahacker copies information from various sources without checking whether it is accurate. Please can I encourage you to research further any information you get from Nutrahacker. Some of it is right, some is partly right and some of it is completely wrong.

rs2236225 is snp on the folate pathway. I am heterozygous for that one. It only impacts choline indirectly by having an influence on the conversion of Homocysteine to Methionine, so would only be relevant to choline when PEMT is not working properly. The answer to the MTHFD1 snp surely would be adequate folate for the cycle to run properly rather than adding choline.

Some snps do have an effect on the requirement for dietary choline, but studies say it is neither of those ones listed above.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16816108
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19167960?dopt=Abstract

On the other hand in those who are obese (a factor contributing to fatty liver) those snps are shown to be relevant and betaine or choline supplementation is considered a possibility to explore. It may even be that these snps contribute to obesity.
http://www.nature.com/nutd/journal/v2/n10/full/nutd201223a.html

Like Celiac disease where 40% of people carry the genes which predispose to an illness which only around 1% of people get, non-alcoholic fatty liver may require certain predisposing genes as well as exposure to another factor (like, for one example, a high fat diet) in order to get the illness. I would not say someone with these snps has an increased need for choline anymore than I would say the 40% of people carrying celiac predisposing genes need to avoid gluten.

It is still interesting and worth following up, sorry I just have difficulty with Nutrahacker's inaccuracies.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
rs2236225 is snp on the folate pathway. I am heterozygous for that one. It only impacts choline indirectly by having an influence on the conversion of Homocysteine to Methionine, so would only be relevant to choline when PEMT is not working properly. The answer to the MTHFD1 snp surely would be adequate folate for the cycle to run properly rather than adding choline.
Very interesting. Please apologize for my poor elaboration - my brain is in slow motion today.
There is a lot of "disagreement" between my husband and I in regard to this gene. Also for this particular SNP:
MTHFD1 rs2236225 A or G (I am GG and DH is AA).

As you said, the genotype will only predict a condition and the epigenetics (eg diet) will materialize the fatty liver disease.

non-alcoholic fatty liver may require certain predisposing genes as well as exposure to another factor (like, for one example, a high fat diet) in order to get the illness
IME a high carb diet (and the use of refined oils) was the underlying cause for my fatty liver. When I went gluten free and switched from refined oils to natural fat (lard, coconut oil) my liver was completely clear in a few months, to the astonishment to the doctor who was performing the ultra sound.
 

svetoslav80

Senior Member
Messages
700
Location
Bulgaria
Quite a lot people have fatty liver without symptoms. It's also reversible condition if one changes diet. I'd rather assume that your mum fatigue symptoms are caused by something else, rather than her fatty liver.
 

Sea

Senior Member
Messages
1,286
Location
NSW Australia
IME a high carb diet (and the use of refined oils) was the underlying cause for my fatty liver. When I went gluten free and switched from refined oils to natural fat (lard, coconut oil) my liver was completely clear in a few months, to the astonishment to the doctor who was performing the ultra sound.

Yes, there is more than one cause for fatty liver. Also there is no one size fits all diet. Some doctors are becoming aware of this, but others are still shocked when an unexpected result happens. My husband read about switching from refined oils and high carb to natural fat and lower carb. Since changing the way we cook he has lost 8kg in 6 months, while sadly I have gained. Whether genetics play a role in that I don't know but I suspect it does.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
while sadly I have gained. Whether genetics play a role in that I don't know but I suspect it does.
I frequently read in lowcarb forums that women usually have more difficulties with the diet. I think it's the estrogen :bang-head:
I lost lots of weight though - alas too much :meh: But am slowly recovering, but will never go back to refined oils, they are too inflammatory.
 

Critterina

Senior Member
Messages
1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
Help? I looked up a couple of websites and am still confused about what is a refined oil. In my house I have coconut, sweet almond, grapeseed, and (not my fav:) olive.
 

Critterina

Senior Member
Messages
1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
Mark Sisson is supposed to know the stuff
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/healthy-oils/
Thank you. I wasn't impressed with this guy. Seems to change his mind quite a bit, and not for a supported or consistent reason. He says:
Grape Seed
Skip this stuff. It does have a buttery taste, and it gets a lot of hype as a worthy replacement for olive oil, but it’s got high oxidation potential, especially if you follow the recommended instructions and use it for deep frying or high heat sauteeing. It’s rather pricey, too, so there’s no good reason to use it.

16% MUFA
70% PUFA
9% SFA

So, if you find it, like I did, at Trader Joe's for $3.69 for a good size bottle (17 oz) and don't use it for deep frying or high heat sauteeing, is there really a reason to dis it? I could point to the 70% PUFA, but it's not from hydrogenation processing, and Mark Sisson didn't comment on it. I like it because it doesn't go bad while I'm traveling for work, the way others do.

He didn't comment on Sweet Almond, that another site said was good (unrefined).

So, I guess I don't know if I have a sensitivity to refined oil, since I don't apparently have any in the house. I'm stopping
 
Messages
15,786
Nutrahacker is not a reliable source. Basically they cut and paste stuff from the internet, without understanding it. I haven't seen any indications that they actually read the research regarding the SNPs which they report upon.

Some of their report data was plagiarized word-for-word from my own posts on this forum, though they did remove it when a Phoenix Rising moderator contacted them.