New info from Ben Lynch - Preventing Methylfolate Side Effects

[caledonia]

This is an excellent article, as usual, from Ben Lynch:http://mthfr.net/preventing-methylfolate-side-effects/2014/11/26/
http://mthfr.net/preventing-methylfolate-side-effects/2014/11/26/

Summary: make sure you support electrolytes and minerals first. He also mentions B vitamins other than B12 and folate, as well as adrenal support. He mentions some supplements he's developed for these purposes.

@Valentijn Of note, is a "lite" version of CBS treatment, although he calls it "opening up the sulfite pathway". This is the best explanation I've seen of it in his free materials. You would stop sulfur foods and supps for a few days (not weeks), and add B1 and molybdenum.

He also mentions it in this video "Folate Metabolism and MTHFR, An Introduction". This is normally $50 but I was able to get it for free by signing up on his mailing list and then viewing one of his free seminars. Here he gets into an explanation of methyl supps affecting the SAM:SAH ratio and CBS increasing to 5X higher to compensate and get the ratio back to normal. This is at 1 hour 14 minutes into the video.

He references http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16275737

Full text here: http://ajpcell.physiology.org/content/289/6/C1369.long

If this actually works, it would be a great shortcut over Yasko's or Heartfixer's versions of CBS.

He has a whole chapter on CBS in his paid methylation course which is meant to train doctors in methylation, but it's going to be a long time before I can get to that, I'm afraid.

If anybody tries the lite CBS treatment, I would like hear how it has worked for you (or not).

 

[juniemarie]

Thank you @caledonia You always post the most helpful information. I need to go back and read the take away notes from 2014 ILADS conference posted by Scott, The Better Health Guy, but I seem to remember one of the speakers mentioning something about not starting methylation protocol until the lyme has been addressed……..I may be wrong on that and will check.
I know some doc's believe it should be the other way around. Wonder if Lynch has ever spoken about this.

 

[PeterPositive]

@Valentijn Of note, is a "lite" version of CBS treatment, although he calls it "opening up the sulfite pathway". This is the best explanation I've seen of it in his free materials. You would stop sulfur foods and supps for a few days (not weeks), and add B1 and molybdenum.

This is interesting... Doesn't B1 contain sulfur?

 

[caledonia]

Here is a Q&A where Ben Lynch mentions some suggested doses for B1 and molybdenum:

http://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-biochemical-and-genetic-predispositions/

If they don’t tolerate sulfur – eggs, cruciferous veggies, wine – then I don’t recommend they take NAC or glutathione. Instead, I recommend stopping all sulfur for a bit – few days – along with:
– Thiamine 50 mg daily
– Molybdenum 500 mcg daily – for a week and then stop

Then try adding back in some sulfur or the liposomal glutathione.

If still sensitive, then possibly need more liver support, vitamin E and calcium D Glucarate.

There is also a discussion of taking NAC and glutathione and the best forms.

He says if you're quite ill NAC won't be enough. Then he goes through the various forms of glutathione and which are most effective.

I have a question out to him about taking NAD and/or FAD along with glutathione to make sure it converts to the good reduced glutathione.

 

[caledonia]

This is interesting... Doesn't B1 contain sulfur?

Even though B1 has sulfur, it's the free thiols which are important. NAC and glutathione have free thiols but B1 doesn't http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

For example, I was taking gobs of taurine during CBS treatment and it was fine.

 

[Scotty81]

Hi Caledonia,

I had a question about what you said above:

He has a whole chapter on CBS in his paid methylation course which is meant to train doctors in methylation, but it's going to be a long time before I can get to that, I'm afraid

I have seen info about Ben Lynch's 2-part course on his website and have considered taking them online. My question is what your general opinion of them has been. He certainly offers a lot of good info on his blogs, but I would think that one would get more out of this info by presenting it in a more structured way like he has in his course. If the course is just a rehash of what appears on his blogs, then that would be important to know too.

I also have a question on viewing Ben Lynch's video that you mention here.

He also mentions it in this video "Folate Metabolism and MTHFR, An Introduction". This is normally $50 but I was able to get it for free by signing up on his mailing list and then viewing one of his free seminars.

After signing up for his mailing list, did the offer for this video just "pop up" after you watched one of his free seminars? If I spend the money to "attend" the course, I thought I'd conserve money in other ways if I could.

Many thanks.

Scotty81

 

[Victronix]

>>have a question out to him about taking NAD and/or FAD along with glutathione to make sure it converts to the good reduced glutathione.

I thought the idea from Rich was that it wasn't helpful to take glutathione because it ended up creating a feedback loop, and that instead, people were supposed to do methylation which would presumably bring it up naturally. Has other information come up about it? I haven't looked into it recently.

 

[ahmo]

@Scotty81 Here are my links to Lynch's vids. there are also a few others I've included, not his.


Dr. Ben Lynch: Folate and Methylation Defects and Metabolism in 2013: Clinical Breakthroughs and Updates http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lCQp0KkSB4

Part 2 ‪MTHFR and Methylation Advancements: Q and A with Dr Lynch‬

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Bcn5LB-E-Fg

Methylation Panel Discussion March 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=N8J_03iAPuA

http://www.youtube.com/user/SeekingHealthTV/videos

Folate Metabolism and MTHFR: An Introduction (1.21min)

http://www.seekinghealth.com/media/MTHFR-Introduction-Basic.pdf



from 30“ much about CBS, COMT; general advice re how to approach diet, etc.

http://beyondmthfr.com/tag/mthfr/ video series on SNPs


“The Role of Methylation and Epigenetics in Brain Disorders” presented by William J. Walsh, PhD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W14kkO61Ano

 

[PeterPositive]

I have seen info about Ben Lynch's 2-part course on his website and have considered taking them online. My question is what your general opinion of them has been. He certainly offers a lot of good info on his blogs, but I would think that one would get more out of this info by presenting it in a more structured way like he has in his course. If the course is just a rehash of what appears on his blogs, then that would be important to know too.

I have attended part #1 of his "Methylation & Clinical Nutrigenomics" online course and have found it very interesting. It's a bit technical but very detailed and with tons of reference to studies and literature for further reading.
There is also a lot of material and although I have started the course in June, I am still going back to some of those videos. It takes a while to digest it.

All in all, well worth the money.

Cheers

 

[skyebean]

@caledonia I am going to do the CBS 'lite' version. I've already got the 500mcg molybdenum, and will look for the the B-1 today. I am crazy sensitive to lots of things when I'm close to overmethylating (or whatever it actually is) - even non-methyl donor supplements can kick me into overdrive. I should be a good test for this.

The sulfur strips should show the progress on this, right?

 

[caledonia]

Hi Caledonia,
I have seen info about Ben Lynch's 2-part course on his website and have considered taking them online. My question is what your general opinion of them has been. He certainly offers a lot of good info on his blogs, but I would think that one would get more out of this info by presenting it in a more structured way like he has in his course. If the course is just a rehash of what appears on his blogs, then that would be important to know too.

I would think his 2 part course for doctor would be the ultimate thing to get. If you're a doc, you can get Continuing Education credits. It should be much more in depth and complete than his online materials.

After signing up for his mailing list, did the offer for this video just "pop up" after you watched one of his free seminars? If I spend the money to "attend" the course, I thought I'd conserve money in other ways if I could.

Yes, the video was offered as a "free gift" along with an extensive methylation pathways chart. I think it was just this last seminar on anxiety/depression. I've seen the chart offered before, but not the video. Anyway, that seems to be more like an introduction or overview, and the real good stuff will be the two part course.

 

[caledonia]

>>have a question out to him about taking NAD and/or FAD along with glutathione to make sure it converts to the good reduced glutathione.

I thought the idea from Rich was that it wasn't helpful to take glutathione because it ended up creating a feedback loop, and that instead, people were supposed to do methylation which would presumably bring it up naturally. Has other information come up about it? I haven't looked into it recently.

Unfortunately, he answered one of my three questions, but not the one about what to take with glutathione.

The NAD and/or FAD, along with doing liposomal glutathione, may be ways of getting around the problems of direct supplementation of glutathione that Rich and Freddd have both discussed. But I haven't been able to reach any conclusion about this yet.

Ben Lynch has developed a liposomal glutathione which contains glutathione + phosphatydal choline, I think it is, so it helps slide it through the cell membranes.

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia I am going to do the CBS 'lite' version. I've already got the 500mcg molybdenum, and will look for the the B-1 today. I am crazy sensitive to lots of things when I'm close to overmethylating (or whatever it actually is) - even non-methyl donor supplements can kick me into overdrive. I should be a good test for this.

The sulfur strips should show the progress on this, right?

Ben Lynch didn't mention sulfur strips, but I would think they could be used to monitor things.

Let us know the results of your experiment.

 

[caledonia]

Here is the answer he gave me regarding maintenance doses to keep the sulfite pathway open after doing the treatment:

(ME)
Also, I forgot to ask – would you suggest remaining on a lower maintenance dose of B1 and molybdenum after doing the sulfite pathway treatment, so that the pathway remains open? If so, what maintenance doses do you suggest?

Dr Lynch November 28, 2014 at 6:49 pm # Reply
Caldeonia – one has to experiment and see. There are other backup pathways also that support – such as general liver support (milk thistle) and calcium D glucarate

I'm doing maintenance with 25mcg of moly and that seems to be working fine.

 

[skyebean]

@caledonia, I just went back over his article. I've been doing molybdenum 500mcg and B1 50 mcgs for four days now. Yesterday I added Ben Lynch's Optimal Start, and didn't have any negative reaction. I just read that you should add in glutathione before methylfolate. I've got reduced glutathione, and a brand new bottle of NAC. Will either of those work in place of the liposomal glutathione? I've got quite a store of experimental supplements going on, and I'd like to see if I can skip buying another one here.

 

[zzz0r]

excellent post indeed. I am having problems with sulfur containing foods as well. I tried molybdenum but maybe I used high dosage for starters and that is why I had side effects from it.

 

[skyebean]

So I started on the CBS 'lite' one week ago. The sulfur strips are holding at 800, so not a big change there. Three days ago I started adding in methylfolate - 250 mcgs, 500 mcgs, and then another 500 mcgs yesterday. Yesterday I also added in 250 mgs of NAC. What I am also doing is nibbling tiny bits of my TMG pill, which I do to keep my stamina up. I pushed myself a little too hard physically on Friday, and TMG gets my crashes to back off. I am also taking 1000 mcgs of hydroxy B12 - but I have always been able to take tons of that (and methylcobalamin) with no effect. It's the methylfolate which has been yucky for me. I've also been able to take D3, glutamine (for exercise recovery), and tiny bits of inositol (night waking), which have sent me over the edge in recent months.

I also started taking Optimal Start at the same time. This also has 100 mgs of niacin in it.

I think my ability to take methylfolate right now is, in part, because I had backed off the TMG for about a week. That seems to 'fill me up' quickly and keep me filled. Once I'm there even beet juice or a salad will overmethlyate (or whatever is happening) me, and tiny bits of a methyl donor supplement will keep me going for 4-5 days, even with lots of niacin. Now (in this past week of doing CBS 'lite') I am sneaking in more than I was able to before, and I can feel my supports running out at the end of the day (although I did sleep all the way through the night last night). I am cautiously optimistic that I can start experiencing the healing of the methylfolate.

I had been taking the 500 mgs of molybdenum with Sparga, but only for a few weeks. I didn't experience any increase in ability to tolerate methyl donors. The difference seems to be the B-1 and the Optimal Start.

I don't know if that info helps anyone. I am BHMT 02 +/+ and BHMT 08 +/+, and I'm guessing that's why the TMG helps me so much. That, plus CBS A360A +/- might be why I getting overfull on methyl donors when I take the TMG that I need. The TMG has not healed my sleep issues, though, and from watching Dr. Lynch's video (and looking at the chart) I am hopeful that being able to address my MTHFR C677T +/- further back in the process will bring more complete healing. The TMG is awesome, but keeping it in balance has been hard on my brain chemistry. Overall, I've been experiencing more well-being since I started working with my methylation process, but when it tips the wrong way, it's really wrong.

To sum it up - I've been feeling a lot more flexibility in terms of taking other supplements I need in the past few days. If this keeps up, it means I'm moving out of a place I've been spinning my wheels in for awhile. Thank you, @caledonia for posting this info. It's been a big help.

 

[perchance dreamer]

I was wondering about Lynch's statement that liposomal glutathione is better at raising levels than the IV form. I did some googling, but could not find any research or other information comparing the effectiveness of the 2 forms.

 

[caledonia]

@skyebean Sounds good so far. Keep us updated. ps. Make sure you have potassium on hand. This could be the next roadblock if you're able to get methylfolate on board.

Also, I'm the same in terms in methylfolate. I'm only dosing with that two days a week, and a very tiny dose at that. The methylation wheels will keep cranking off that one dose for several days. I've also run into high folate veggies (such as avocado) causing me to go into overload.

However, I'm not so close to the edge as to experience overmethylation, but I do get a metal detox dump, which is uncomfortable - flu like aching and extra tired (similar to a PEM crash).

 

[caledonia]

I was wondering about Lynch's statement that liposomal glutathione is better at raising levels than the IV form. I did some googling, but could not find any research or other information comparing the effectiveness of the 2 forms.

The liposomal has some acetylcholine (I think) with it to help slide it through the cell membranes and into the cells. Going to ask my doc about this soon, as I'm tempted to try it.