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Radio Show: The Cutting Edge of Health and Wellness Today (Drs. Nathan and Teitelbaum) Fridays 2-3

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
Following is an email sent to a member:

New Radio Show
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue--Highly Effective Treatments
August 1, 2014
Hosted by Neil Nathan MD and Jacob Teitelbaum MDhttp://www.voiceamerica.com/show/2356/the-cutting-edge-of-health-and-wellness-today

Description: Neil Nathan MD and Jacob Teitelbaum MD have been pioneers in the understanding and treatment of chronic illness, especially Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Today they launch their much anticipated radio program with an overview of Dr. Teitelbaum's SHINE approach to treatment. It is their intent to create the go-to site for cutting edge information for the public on a holistic, integrative approach to a wide variety of illnesses. Please join them every week as they make accessible their extensive experience with chronic illness.

Dr. Nathan says, "I was hoping you [all] would be willing to promote my new radio show to the many CFS/FM folks you correspond with. I have been asked by VoiceAmerica to host an hour long call-in radio program and my co-host will be Jacob Teitelbaum. We are hoping this will be the go-to site for good, current information on a host of alternative topics with CFS and FM prominent. The show, called The Cutting Edge of Health and Wellness Today will air on Fridays, PST from2-3 pm and will be streamed, archived, etc so that folks can access it in a variety of ways. Our first two programs will be an overview of CFS/FM from Jacob and my perspectives, followed by programs on Lyme, mold toxicity, etc. It can be directly accessed through:http://www.voiceamerica.com/show/2356/the-cutting-edge-of-health-and-wellness-today

Thanks,
Dr. Neil Nathan
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
The only research I found had no control group and made leaps of logic when interpreting the results.

Barb
 

Lillybelle

Senior Member
Messages
110
Location
Australia
The only research I found had no control group and made leaps of logic when interpreting the results.

Barb
A pilot study is for proof of concept and to set the direction for a larger scale study. It may include a control group but does not need to as a pilot study.It can do the following for feasability:
Table 1
Aspects of Feasibility that Can be Examined with a Pilot Study

Study ComponentFeasibility Quantification
ScreeningNumber screened per month
RecruitmentNumber enrolled per month
RandomizationProportion of screen eligible who enroll
RetentionTreatment-specific retention rates
Treatment adherenceRates of adherence to protocol for each intervention
Treatment fidelityFidelity rates per unit monitored
Assessment processProportion of planned ratings that are completed; duration of assessment visit
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3081994/
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
I'll try and find the reference, I belive it was prohealth, that said this was after the pilot study.

Barb

ETA I found it. The following is the part referring to the pilot study. They call it a project, not a scientific experiment. The other you referred to was a paper. I'm not sure if there were any published studies.
The Project Went as Follows

• I took 30 patients (none of whom were part of the first pilot project), all of whom I had treated with Dr. Teitelbaum’s program, all of whom had made some progress (ranging from 30% to 70% improvement) but were still not where they needed to be health-wise.

The full article is at
http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=16338

What I am saying is at this point it's a hypothesis which may or may not be correct.:)
 
Last edited:

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia

Lillybelle

Senior Member
Messages
110
Location
Australia
Yep study was completed and published the only one by Rich that I know of. However it was a pilot study of 30 people over 6 month period. Unfortunately I don't think Neil Nathan has gone on to any larger study's on this subject. In fact this is the only study of Nathan's I can find. I think he's more practitioner than researcher. But obviously has lots of case work.
Was that methylation study completed and published?

This radio show sounds interesting.
p p
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
From Dr. Neil Nathan:

This week, on The Cutting Edge of Health and Wellness Today, Dr. Teitelbaum
and I will be delving into all aspects of intestinal health and its role in healing.
This will include discussions about food allergy, probiotics, enzymes, overgrowth
of candida and toxic bacterial species (called intestinal dysbiosis) and much more.

Please join us to learn more about this vital component of health! That's 2-3 pm Friday
PST on Voice America (all shows will be archived by the following Monday).
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
From Dr. Neil Nathan:

I will be joined by my colleague, Wayne Anderson, this week to discuss the growing epidemic of
Lyme disease and its relationship to chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. Last August, the CDC
acknowledged that there are over 300,000 new cases of Lyme disease each year, finally bringing
the possibility of diagnosis and medical treatment to millions of Americans who had not been
aware of this possibility. We will review the current symptoms, diagnostic tests and treatment
options for our listeners. Please join us for this important program on this week's "The Cutting
Edge of Health and Wellness Today", 2-3 pm PST (and archived for later listening) on Voice America.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
From Dr. Neil Nathan:

Today, on The Cutting Edge of Health and Wellness Today, Drs. Nathan and Teitelbaum will
review the treatment of Alzheimer's Disease and Dementia. While conventional physicians
have little to offer those afflicted with this devastating illness, there are a lot of alternative approaches
that have proven very helpful, and for some, curative. Dr. Teitelbaum will focus on his MIND protocol,
and asks those interested in working with this protocol to call 410-573-5389 or send an email to:
office at endfatigue dot com for more information on joining this research effort. Please join us for this
important program.
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
Still might be interesting to hear. I also thought Tietelbaum's theories are considered outdated but haven’t really followed him for a while.

@Lou

What is the trust issue?

Barb
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
From Dr. Neil Nathan:

Our radio show this week will cover environmental toxicities: heavy metal (esp mercury)
chemicals, radiation and electromagnetic effects. I will be joined this week by Dr. Eric
Gordon of Gordon Medical Associates, and probably by Chris Shade of Quicksilver.

Many of our patients are not fully aware of the how these exposures dramatically affect their health and
their ability to heal. The more our patients can learn about how to limit these exposures and
remove their effects, the better we can pursue the healing process. We will be airing 2-3 pm
PST on The Cutting Edge of Health and Wellness Today on Voice America; the program will be live
and archived; questions are welcomed.
 

Research 1st

Severe ME, POTS & MCAS.
Messages
768
A good question was asked here. That was why should people be cautious? Other people also ask, where is the data?

The 'correct' answer on the effectiveness of Dr Teitelbaum's protocol likely depends on two factors:
Firstly if one is thinking of 'fatigue' based CFS, or secondly if their understanding of CFS is a unique disease process resulting in a life long neuroimmune illness.

Depending on one's views, the response would either be mild interest (or disinterest) in what Dr T believes helps, or perhaps smartly walking in the opposite direction and not stopping.

Dr T operates what he calls, the 'SHINE' protocol, explained briefly below:

S.H.I.N.E. — A Holistic Approach to Optimizing Energy

S =SLEEP: Get adequate sleep, preferably eight to nine hours a night. Sleep replenishes the body's energy and heals its muscles. Inadequate sleep will leave you exhausted and in pain.

H = HORMONES: Get tested for hormone deficiency and treated if needed. Hormone deficiencies can contribute to fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.

I = IMMUNITY: Get treatment when symptoms of infections occur. The lack of restorative sleep in CFS/FM leads to dysfunctional immune systems. Underlying viral, bacterial, bowel, sinus and yeast infections are common and can be a contributing cause or result of CFS/FM.

N = NUTRITON: To maintain normal health and optimal energy levels you need to be sure your body is getting a proper balance of nutrition, particularly as nutritional deficiencies can result from CFS/FM. Vitamin B-12, magnesium, Acetyl L-Carnitine, glutathione, as well as your basic A, B, C and D vitamins are especially vulnerable to depletion from this.

E = EXERCISE: Exercise as able. After 10 weeks on the 4 steps above, you will be able to slowly increase your exercise-without being wiped out the next day!

One quote below:

'In our published research study, over 90% of patients improved with treatment, with an average improvement in quality of life of 90%'.

Source: http://www.endfatigue.com/treatment_options/Shine_treatment_protocol.html


This all looks perfectly innocent, if one is treating chronic 'fatigue'. To be fair Chronic Fatigue Syndrome to some people, is simply fatigue and a few other symptoms. (This is how the CDC view CFS, and how the IOM view the soon to be further ostracized ME).

Looking objectively at SHINE, one may ask quite how in only 10 weeks using Dr T's protocol, patients with CFS can be improved in 9 in 10 cases, when globally CFS remains an incurable chronic illness that the world's top researchers can't or won't do anything about. Of note, at 90% turn around using SHINE, even the biopsychosocial camp can't get anywhere near this for people with unexplained fatigue using CBT, exercise and other life-style changes.

Without looking into it too deeply, SHINE appears a near miracle and that is all we need to recognize. A near miracle is never to be taken on face value.

The exceptional patient responses to the S.H.I.N.E. treatment protocol are probably amounting to little more than:

1) Potential exaggerated claims by the inventor of the product.
2) Not reflective of people with 'classic' ME but people with 'chronic fatigue' and not CFS equaling or exceeding Fukuda criteria.
3) Initial responses in the short term when a patient feels something positive is happening in their lives, that don't last.

I'd go with number 2 mixed with 3.

The SHINE protocol, realistically does not even begin to discuss the consequences of chronic untreated CFS, and CFS subsets.

*Cancer
*Autonomic dysfunction
*Immune suppression not explained by nutritional deficiencies.
*Arthritis and other damage to tissues from chronic Inflammation including vascular and brain walloped by long term oxidative stress.

Etc...

Undoubtedly addressing any nutritional deficiencies (if present) may reduce fatigue. That is a sensible approach to any illness, however a 90% improvement seems a little unlikely and sounds more like dodgy marketing.

In cases of very high responses to an 'intervention' involving near miracles it appears there is always a personalized protocol of some sort that the patient must adopt (that no other product has), however a patient can reject this and simply continue a common sense approach. Follow rules of good nutrition, avoid stress, try and get as good sleep as possible etc. With regard to ME and CFS, a crucial observation is if patients do manage this, they will still remain sick and disabled which is why they have a chronic neuro immune illness of unexplained origin!

In fact, many people with CFS and ME spend hundreds of dollars on nutrition per month, and still remain severely affected, infected and disabled. (Some even feel worse on high dose supplements and can't tolerate them). Remissions and relapses include tinkering with hormones, which is in itself risky if levels aren't measured first. Also, low cortisol in ME CFS, is centrally medicated (HPA dysfunction), so in effect unfix-able with cortisol supplementation. This was known decades ago by researchers who tried and failed to improve CFS patients long term by increasing their poor cortisol levels.

Knowing this, this would explain some ME CFS sufferers objections to Dr T's potentially inflated claims when it comes to their experience of ME CFS patients radically improving. We then go in circles with counter claims, all because of what CFS is, and what CFS means to each individual, researchers and physicians.

Sadly CFS and ME means many things. To many people, CFS ME doesn't mean much at all, precisely because it remains 'fatigue' centric by key players in power who ultimately have decided the fate of millions of sickly people hobbled by their condition. This is not the 'fault' of Dr Dr Teitelbaum or other people getting a little over excited about attempting to reverse chronic fatigue states. The counter argument is, CFS physicians should be more responsible and stress that CFS is not currently treatable by anyone, and that it can be very disabling.

It's fascinating, yet cruel to see how wider societies rejection of individuals sufferance (due to the label of ME CFS), tends to push ME and CFS patients into the fringes of medical practice for 'help', a place in which they often remain untreated, and sometimes given further false hope be it through psychological or biomedical therapies that are untested, and unproven.[/quote][/quote]
 

jimells

Senior Member
Messages
2,009
Location
northern Maine
I'd add a "Y" to that S.H.I.N.E.

Y= You're own fault if you're still sick after 10 weeks. You're obviously doing something wrong or thinking the wrong thoughts.

Seriously, I thought Dr T. was thoroughly discredited years ago. It's sad to see Dr Nathan hooked up with this hype. I don't understand why he didn't continue research on the methylation treatment protocol. If he's not sure how to organize a useful study, he could certainly find out.

Recently I read a post by @Jonathan Edwards where he explained that study design was a standard part of medical education. He also wrote about purchasing very expensive medications out of his own pocket in order to pursue his research. Why don't we see more of this kind of initiative?