Would B-12 shots help or hinder the Freddd protocol?

[sueami]

I ask because I am a month and a half in to methylation supplementation. I've worked my way up to 4grams of Solgar Folate (1600 in am then 800 tabs 3 more times in the day -- no negative reactions) and about 3/4 of a tab of 5000mg methylb12 (which can make me feel amped so I space them out over 3 doses) and 1/4 tab of 10,000mg adenosylcobalamin (no reaction).

I have also taken a 500mg capsule of L-carnitine fumarate but I think it's causing me anxiety, so I've been trying to take smaller doses of it spread out over the day and/or skipping says if I feel too anxiety ridden.

I do have the B-complex from nature made and am supplementing with magnesium, mixed minerals, potassium as needed, high dose D, and vit C. I've also experimented with Phosphatidyl Choline from Bodybio but I think it creates anxiety/wired feelings as well.

I am still struggling with fatigue, exercise intolerance and palpitations, mild waves of flu-like feelings and wack mood instability. I do have periods of time in a day where I feel remarkably normal, and I'm hoping I am healing, depsite the symptoms I still struggle with.

I've got a big extended family vacation to Europe in one month that I"m trying to marshal my energies for and I'm remembering that a B-12 shot a year ago made me feel really good for several days. I've seen numerous references on the boards to B-12 shots helping people feel recovered or at least much better, and I'm getting desperate to feel like I'm more on top of these symptoms.

Would getting a B-12 shot create an imbalance in my methylation supplements? I would like to ask my holistic physician about it but I'm not even sure if it would be helpful or harmful.

Thanks in advance for any feedback,

Sue

 

[minkeygirl]

Which B-12 for the injection? Not sure it matters but someone might ask.

 

[Martial]

Only get it in Methyl b12 form, it will help. It is just a more concentrated dose of the same supplement. 30,000mcg of subligual in an ideal world of perfect absorption=1000mcg injection

Test for Pyoluria as well, a simple urine test. It will hamper methylation if this is an issue for you and could make the condition worse if you don't treat with zinc and b6 at the same time. Keep in mind these doses would be toxic to normal people so you need testing BEFORE supplementing for it.

 

[minkeygirl]

Cheney used to use HB12 10,000 mcg/ml. FYI. @Martial you know I don't know about methylation, just wanted to toss that in.

 

[Martial]

Cheney used to use HB12 10,000 mcg/ml. FYI. @Martial you know I don't know about methylation, just wanted to toss that in.

I think its very helpful thanks Minkey Girl! I just want to be sure she stays away from cyanocobalt. People have differing views on hb12 but there isn't any negative effects to it per say, however cyanob12 is toxic.

 

[minkeygirl]

YW. I never thought it was that helpful anyway. Who wants to inject cyanide?

 

[Martial]

YW. I never thought it was that helpful anyway. Who wants to inject cyanide?

Lab Rats seem to get it done fairly often

 

[minkeygirl]

Well there you go.

 

[sueami]

haha you two. Thank you, for the replies! I knew to stay away from Cyano. I will ask about the pyoluria test. I assume this doc, who is at least moderately familiar with the methyl cycle, would know to use mb12 or HB12, but I will clarify that with him.

 

[ahmo]

@sueami Here's a pyroluria questionnaire. It'll give you a good idea whether this applies to you. Answer in terms of whether you've ever had the issue, not just at present. Pyroluria testing can be unreliable. I never tested, just took the questionnaire. The first time I took it, not very high. When I redid it, I was high enough to supplement. Changed my life. Pyroluria is also known as HPU, KPU. Can be confusing.

http://www.hputest.nl/evraag.htm Online questionnaire to suspect pyroluria
http://www.hputest.nl/ewhat.htm
HPU can be can be described as a stress-induced double deficiency of pyridoxal-5-phosfate and zinc. In most of the cases a deficiency of manganese is found as well. It belongs to the porphyrin diseases.

This is a heterogeneous group of congenital or acquired defects in the metabolism of haem caused by abnormalities of enzymes involved in the biosynthesis.

Porphyrin disease are sometimes classified in terms of clinical presentation, as acute or non-acute. HPU belongs to the non-acute porphyries. Normally in non-acute porphyries porphobilinogen deaminase is raised. Up till now this has not been investigated in HPU.

Treatment Protocol Pyroluria:
http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/images/stories/powerpoints/hpu 2009.pdf

 

[sueami]

Thank you for the questionnaire, @ahmo and website links! I am thinking I should get tested, based on what I've read so far, but I haven't printed it out yet and jotted down my answers to formally score it.

It sounds like the treatment protocol might be as intense as the methylation startup, with detox and whatnot. How has it gone for you? Are you testing your zinc and p-5-p levels as you go along? I hope this is something my doc is familiar with. I've got an email off to him now....

 

[sueami]

One of the symptoms of pyroluria that stood out for me on this blog http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/do-you-have-pyroluria/ (among many, actually) is the one about having much higher capability and alertness in the evening, as opposed to morning or midday. That has always been a defining characteristic of my dysfunction over the last 4 1/2 years and I wondered if it tracked with CFS or some other condition. Do you experience that, @ahmo ?

 

[pela]

After about 18 months on Freddd's protocol I got an rx for 1000 mcg methylB12 per day by injection. I pay about $1 per shot and do it myself. I am very very happy with the results. If you can get the rx, go for it!

I still use sublingual Mb12 too,

 

[Martial]

After about 18 months on Freddd's protocol I got an rx for 1000 mcg methylB12 per day by injection. I pay about $1 per shot and do it myself. I am very very happy with the results. If you can get the rx, go for it!

I still use sublingual Mb12 too,

A dollar a shot?!! Wow, Sadly I don't think they offer Methyl form of B12 in the United States by prescription

 

[ahmo]

Thank you for the questionnaire, @ahmo and website links! I am thinking I should get tested, based on what I've read so far, but I haven't printed it out yet and jotted down my answers to formally score it.

It sounds like the treatment protocol might be as intense as the methylation startup, with detox and whatnot. How has it gone for you? Are you testing your zinc and p-5-p levels as you go along? I hope this is something my doc is familiar with. I've got an email off to him now....

Not intense for me. 5 days after I'd started p5p, and possibly started TMG at same time, I lay in bed and thought, "Well, this new journey of research and understanding is going to be interesting." Before that, I'd been overwhelmed, didn't see how I'd manage my way through it all. This is true. And the shift remained.

I initially used high doses of zinc, 200mg/day, as an aid to pushing metals out of my system. After about 6 months I lowered it. Following a year-long detox, I'm now using generally 50mg zinc. I don't think there is likely to be a detox response, since you are only adding in the much needed zinc. What's still awaiting you is detoxxing out the heavy metals that have taken up residence in all the places that should have zinc. that takes some time

I raised P5P up to 3/day at one point, but this didn't make any difference, so I lowered it to 1/day (33mg, I think, thorne brand). Best taken at night.

I don't get lab tests for anything. Nothing I've ever tested for has given me reliable info. From a life-time of thyroid testing, to histamine, to MTHFR test by blood. Even the hair analysis tests have shown me little of value. And I've never had a doc knew anything about any of this.

I treat myself according to symptoms, and self-test for my supplement levels. I learned the method I use just as I was dissolving into ME/CFS, and so have had a long time to work with it and build my confidence. I was very happy to hear Dr. Klinghardt list a number of ways to self-test, and his emphasis on using this.Here's a very simple method, in a 3 minute vid.

Self-testing http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex59wHLk3Q0

I'm not a night-time person, never have been.

Re B12 injections, here's something I came across today from Freddd:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/
The Enzymatic Therapy MeCbl is more effective and reliable than most injections except for the very best MeCbl prepared under light free conditions. Light breaks it down to HyCbl which compared to MeCbl/AdoCbl is all but totally worthless for healing neurology.

 

[pela]

A dollar a shot?!! Wow, Sadly I don't think they offer Methyl form of B12 in the United States by prescription

There are plenty of compounding pharmacies in the US that sell injectable methyl B12. Mine comes from California.

 

[Martial]

There are plenty of compounding pharmacies in the US that sell injectable methyl B12. Mine comes from California.

OMG you just made my year, how did you get coverage for it? I don't have any way to prove i "need" it per say, aside from lyme as a medical proved condition, maybe I could get it with that excuse

 

[Martial]

Not intense for me. 5 days after I'd started p5p, and possibly started TMG at same time, I lay in bed and thought, "Well, this new journey of research and understanding is going to be interesting." Before that, I'd been overwhelmed, didn't see how I'd manage my way through it all. This is true. And the shift remained.

I initially used high doses of zinc, 200mg/day, as an aid to pushing metals out of my system. After about 6 months I lowered it. Following a year-long detox, I'm now using generally 50mg zinc. I don't think there is likely to be a detox response, since you are only adding in the much needed zinc. What's still awaiting you is detoxxing out the heavy metals that have taken up residence in all the places that should have zinc. that takes some time

I raised P5P up to 3/day at one point, but this didn't make any difference, so I lowered it to 1/day (33mg, I think, thorne brand). Best taken at night.

I don't get lab tests for anything. Nothing I've ever tested for has given me reliable info. From a life-time of thyroid testing, to histamine, to MTHFR test by blood. Even the hair analysis tests have shown me little of value. And I've never had a doc knew anything about any of this.

I treat myself according to symptoms, and self-test for my supplement levels. I learned the method I use just as I was dissolving into ME/CFS, and so have had a long time to work with it and build my confidence. I was very happy to hear Dr. Klinghardt list a number of ways to self-test, and his emphasis on using this.Here's a very simple method, in a 3 minute vid.

Self-testing http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex59wHLk3Q0

I'm not a night-time person, never have been.

Re B12 injections, here's something I came across today from Freddd:

I hope you are taking some copper to match those high zinc levels, you don't want to risk a copper deficiency either, unlike other issues this one would actually show up as anemia on a blood test thankfully!

 

[pela]

OMG you just made my year, how did you get coverage for it? I don't have any way to prove i "need" it per say, aside from lyme as a medical proved condition, maybe I could get it with that excuse

I got my prescription from a naturopath. I pay for it myself, no rx coverage on my no-good insurance plan.

 

[ahmo]

@Martial, I had excess copper. I'm now taking only 50mg Zinc/day, and body asks for a couple slivers of liver a week for copper needs.