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Overmethylation and Arginine

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
Hello All,
I am new to this forum and first of all I wanted to thank the organizers and all the contributors for doing such a great job.

A few weeks ago, I was diagnosed with being an Overmethylator(low Histamine). This became evident by a histamine test I took. I am also low in Zinc and have Pyrroluria.

Anyways, my question is, is amino acid l-Arginine suppose to help over-methylators?
The reason I ask is everytime I take that supplement, initally I feel good energy that allows me to go to the gym and work out and I also notice my sleep improves at night... However, after a few days I start getting a fever and cranker sores in my mouth in which I have to stop it..... Anyone can guess what happens here? I would really apprecite your feedback, thanks so much,
 

PeterPositive

Senior Member
Messages
1,426
Hi,
do you also know if you have low homocysteine? (e.g. < 6 μmol/L) That's usually a good marker for "overmethylation", although I still struggle with a precise definition. It may mean several things.

My definition is that with low homocysteine the production of glutathione will be impaired, but there are more problems related to that:
http://blog.vitalobjectives.com/2013/01/low-homocysteine-may-not-be-that-great.html

As regards arginine, how much do you take?
Arginine increases nitric oxide and expands blood vessels, I am not sure how arginine alone can make an important difference in energy production. Also it doesn't affect the methylation cycle directly as far as I know. Since it impacts the levels of nitric oxide it may help other routes but I am no expert on that, sorry.
 

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
Hi,
do you also know if you have low homocysteine? (e.g. < 6 μmol/L) That's usually a good marker for "overmethylation", although I still struggle with a precise definition. It may mean several things.

My definition is that with low homocysteine the production of glutathione will be impaired, but there are more problems related to that:
http://blog.vitalobjectives.com/2013/01/low-homocysteine-may-not-be-that-great.html

As regards Arginine, how much do you take?
Arginine increases nitric oxide and expands blood vessels, I am not sure how arginine alone can make an important difference in energy production. Also it doesn't affect the methylation cycle directly as far as I know. Since it impacts the levels of nitric oxide it may help other routes but I am no expert on that, sorry.

Hi and thanks for your reply,
I may be low in homocysteine, but was never tested for it. My Histamine test came in at 38 and normal range is suppose to be 40-70 .

Regarding Arginine dosage, it was small amounts. I started with 1 cap which was 500mg, but when I noticed it gave me Cold sore and fever, I stopped and then started a week later on 250mg. Same thing! I even tried Citrulline which is the persecutor to Arginine, and same thing!(just took a little longer for symptoms to come back).......

One thing I suspect is that I have excess sulfur. I have never been tested for it but seem to have the symptoms. I have trouble digesting certain proteins (especially proteins in grains) and seem to do well when I take Zinc which from what I understand is suppose to reduce excess sulfur. I was also diagnosed with a digestion disorder called SIBO(small intestine bacterial overgrowth) which explained all my food sensitivities to Gluten and .....
I am curious to find out if the excess sulfur in the system is possibly linked to my trouble with taking Argnine. I think Arginine is a sulfur containing amino acid. And if that is the case, is there any possible ways to correct it?
Thanks so much
Peyt.
 

helen1

Senior Member
Messages
1,033
Location
Canada
Arginine can reactivate dormant herpes viruses. This happened to me when I tried arginine and sounds like that's what happened to you too. Many people have dormant herpes, I think I read over half of the population.
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
@Peyt I did 23andME and it showed I have the CBS mutations. We discussed a way to test it, and I started a thread here somewhere but there doesn't seem to be an accurate test for that. I was told the strips on amazon were not really for humans.

I can't find the tread though.
 

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
Thanks wo much Mink,
Was this the post? http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/treating-cbs-mutation.24968/page-2

After reading that post I am realizing I have a lot more to discover about myself. The test I did only told me if I was over or under methylated. But I have no idea if I have the CBS mutation or SUOX or other genes! ... well, at least I know I have some kind of a problem with Sulfur.

BTW, I see in that post that your Doc had recommended to take L-Ornithine. Did this actually help you? The reason I ask is that I believe L-arginine turns into L-Ornithine or vise versa!
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
That was a really old thread right after I got my 23andMe results. I asked about the testing a month or two ago.

That was not me taking the L-Ornithine because I had not seen a doc at that point.

BTW I do not get nor will I ever get methylation. I rely on the smart people here to help me with stuff I don't understand.
 

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
Thanks again for your reply Mink,
May I ask which supplements are working for you?
I am currently taking Zinc and B6(in for of 5P5) and EPO which is working well for me. Just wondering how close is your treatment protocal to what I am taking that is working for me.
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
I have been taking 1000 mcg MB12 for a few years. I just added 1000 mcg HB12 however when I run out I'm going to switch to Adenosylcobalamin.

I am taking 100 mcg Solgar Mfolate but am raising it by 100 mcgs each week. I am adding 100 mgs of l-carnitine fumarate. I also take 300 mgs potassium 3x/day and will increase that as I raise the dose of the Mfolate.

I take Life Extension Only Trace minerals for my osteopenia along with other bone building stuff. Omega 3, I forget what else, a crap load. Nothing has really made a difference in how I feel in any substantial way.
 

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
I have been taking 1000 mcg MB12 for a few years. I just added 1000 mcg HB12 however when I run out I'm going to switch to Adenosylcobalamin.

I am taking 100 mcg Solgar Mfolate but am raising it by 100 mcgs each week. I am adding 100 mgs of l-carnitine fumarate. I also take 300 mgs potassium 3x/day and will increase that as I raise the dose of the Mfolate.

I take Life Extension Only Trace minerals for my osteopenia along with other bone building stuff. Omega 3, I forget what else, a crap load. Nothing has really made a difference in how I feel in any substantial way.

Oh wow, sorry to hear nothing has made a substantial difference,
So I guess I need to be more thankful for the test I took for Pyrroluria
and Histamine, because my life has improved alot since i got my results back and started adjusting my supplements in accordance to it 3 weeks ago,
Here is the test that helped me: http://pyroluriatesting.com/shop/metabolic-panel-w-clinical-consultation/

I was already taking B12/folate prior to this test and I am continuing to take that as well. I don't do well with Omega 3 and in fact need to stay away from it(according to my test results). I do well with Omega 6 and that's why I take EPO (evening promise oil)

Wish you all health.
God Bless
Peyt
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
The only things so far that have made any difference are antivirals and immune modulators. It's way too soon to tell about the methylation.
 
Messages
97
Arginine can reactivate dormant herpes viruses. This happened to me when I tried arginine and sounds like that's what happened to you too. Many people have dormant herpes, I think I read over half of the population.
It is almost certainly this. I had the same problem after a week on arginine, which sucked because it had been helping. The connection is widely documented, e.g.:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Herpes_Arginine.aspx

I started to supplement with acetyl glutathione for a while and can now take arginine without getting cold sores. Glutathione is anti-herpes virus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16787218/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8540746/
 

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
It is almost certainly this. I had the same problem after a week on arginine, which sucked because it had been helping. The connection is widely documented, e.g.:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Herpes_Arginine.aspx

I started to supplement with acetyl glutathione for a while and can now take arginine without getting cold sores. Glutathione is anti-herpes virus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16787218/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8540746/

interesting you mention Glutathione, because according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutathione Glutathione reduces disulfate bonds (again has something with reducing sulfate/sulfur) .... so I wonder if Arginine increases the sulfate bonds and Glutathione and molybdenum reduce it and thus bring it back to balance.
Very interesting and thankful for all your replies.