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My experience with DHEA

Ema

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I am not sure what you are saying here. The statement itself just comes from the reference study (this one).
Just that it reinforces the notion that glucocorticoids are always immune suppressive and bad for us...when they have a very important immune function that can get out of hand.
 

justy

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well that's interesting because my cortisol is chronically low as well as my DHEA. Not sure if I should give the DHEA another go. My results were very low.
 

Ema

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So cortisol perhaps opposes the truculent state of mind produced by high DHEA?
I don't know. Maybe it's cortisol, maybe it's another metabolite.

It's just been my experience and that of others that I know that taking DHEA with low cortisol is usually tough to handle.
 

heapsreal

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for me i found it easier to start with low doses of dhea and slowly build them up and then i added the pregnenolone.
My dhea levels prior were well outside the normal range and cortisol were within normal range but only just within normal for morning blood test, not the high end of normal for optimal levels though?

Pregnenolone cream has my morning cortisol levels right in the middle of the normal range and my dhea is in the upper 1/3 of the range on 25mg twice a day.
 

Hip

Senior Member
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One thing of interest regarding oral versus transdermal/sublingual pregnenolone: someone commented that:
"Sublingual pregnenolone has VERY different effects from oral pregnenolone. Try it (get it cheap on Amazon); it's a strong simulating (pro-anxiety) effect followed by a come-down about an hour later. Kinda strange".

Also:
"Sublingual administration avoids first-pass metabolism. By the time pregnenolone gets through the liver it could have been turned into all kinds of shit. The pro-anxiety effect might be the GABA antagonism".
Source: here.

I think transdermal pregnenolone cream would act the same as sublingual pregnenolone: these two methods of application both avoid the first-pass metabolism (the hepatic portal system). But oral pregnenolone will go through the first-pass metabolism.

I take pregnenolone orally, but when I tried it sublingual, it did feel very different: it increased anxiety levels, and generally made me feel a bit strange mentally.
 

heapsreal

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, post: 454546, member: 249"]One thing of interest regarding oral versus transdermal/sublingual pregnenolone: someone commented that:


Also:

Source: here.

I think transdermal pregnenolone cream would act the same as sublingual pregnenolone: these two methods of application both avoid the first-pass metabolism (the hepatic portal system). But oral pregnenolone will go through the first-pass metabolism.

I take pregnenolone orally, but when I tried it sublingual, it did feel very different: it increased anxiety levels, and generally made me feel a bit strange mentally.[/quote]
Transdermal would be slower release compared to sublingual. Both though would avoid the first pass the liver metabolism. Oral pregnenolone I have never felt anything but transdermal I have noticed obvious increases in energy.
 

adreno

PR activist
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It's the liver pass that converts it to other hormones. I think most people definitely want that.
 

adreno

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I thought cortisol was made by the adrenals and sex hormones in the testes or ovaries and pregnenolone is the raw products to make these other hormones??
Well, I'm not quite sure how it works with oral hormones. But I have read several places that sublingual (or transdermal) DHEA reduces it's conversion to test and estrogen, compared with oral. I guess it's similar for preg. I think it is sulfated in the liver to DHEA-S, or PREG-S, but I'm not sure of the consequence, or which is preferable.

Btw, micronized preg/dhea is also said to avoid first liver pass.

When people tried sublingual, did you use the same dose as oral? Presumably, the dose should be smaller.
 
Last edited:

heapsreal

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Well, I'm not quite sure how it works with oral hormones. But I have read several places that sublingual (or transdermal) DHEA reduces it's conversion to test and estrogen, compared with oral. I guess it's similar for preg. I think it is sulfated in the liver to DHEA-S, or PREG-S, but I'm not sure of the consequence, or which is preferable.

Btw, micronized preg/dhea is also said to avoid first liver pass.

When people tried sublingual, did you use the same dose as oral? Presumably, the dose should be smaller.

I think some aromatisation may occurr in the liver. I could be wrong but the hormones are fat soluable so maybe something is occurring during metabolism of these fats in the liver??

I also think that dhea and pregnenolone have their own individual functions we dont fully understand, alot of info online only seems to look at them as a prohormone used to make other hormones. The term neurosteroid i have read, maybe they have their own individual neurotransmitter effects similar in a way to serotonin and dopamine etc. Some studies on dhea/preg seem to mention more about increases in well being and mood, not so much about down stream hormone production like testosterone.

I think with transdermal hormones, they are released slower then other route of administration and i think this can help reduce the amount of aromatization of these hormones into others as maybe it the speed of these hormones being metabolised which can be a factor, eg i have heard that guys do better on dhea 25mg twice a day then 50mg once a day with reduce E2?? Sublingual i would think would be the opposite of transdermal in that it would be absorbed quicker so would have larger peaks and shorter life span in the body??

My experience with dhea was that it did increase e2 and had little effect on my testosterone levels but it did increase general well being. Pregnenolone did increase energy levels and initially too much, i found using dhea with preg had a more balancing effect so wasnt over stimulated by it. Labs on preg showed it didnt do anything to my dhea levels which is the opposite to what i had read but preg did help increase cortisol and total testosterone, did nothing to my progesterone levels. I guess how our blood work pans out is very individual and looking at those nice charts showing how all the hormones flow down from pregnenolone and then dhea flowing down to testosterone isnt always the case.

I guess the only way to know other then take the supplement and see how u feel, would be to take these hormones individually and test all hormones after 3 weeks of use and see what happens and then try the next hormone etc and combinations etc. It would be hard to find a doc to be on board with this testing as well as being able to afford the testing involved.

My hormone testing is limited to 1-2 times a year, so i go by feel and when i think i am on a good dose for me i try to get tested and then adjust things from there.

I havent tried micronized dhea or preg, be interested to hear others experiences with them.

@adreno whats your experience with dhea/preg?
 
I only realised once I had stopped the DHEA for a couple of weeks just how bad it was making me feel. Angry...crying and also awful sweating that smelt nasty as it was coming out of my body - showering twice a day and using super strong deodorant did nothing to cover up the smell.

Because of that developed sore underarms, which are now finally healing and I am back to my normal natural deodorant, which is working fine again. I was so agitated on the DHEA - that was at approx. 2-5mg a day for two weeks.

I have now decided to take nothing unitl I see Dr De Meirleir in Brussels in May. I actually feel better and cope better and my stomach is better since giving up all supplements etc.

Take care all,
Justy.

Hi All,

I am super new here (well, new to commenting anyway!). I had Cortisol and DHEA tests and got a different result. Low Cortisol (expected) and HIGH DHEA (?). The reference range for the test I took (saliva) was 4 – 15 ng/mL and my result was 17ng/mL. I generally feel (and smell like) everything @justy described above, I wonder how much high DHEA contributes. Ah, my first comment and I'm already talking about my B.O.!

The only info I can really find on low Cort/high DHEA comes from sites talking about "Adrenal Fatigue" and it's "stages" (this combo puts me at the illusive "stage 6"). But the adrenal fatigue/insufficiency world as most of you know is difficult to navigate/integrate with traditional medicine, so it was kind of a false lead. @Ema, I noticed you talking about this in the other DHEA thread—how high DHEA precedes a DHEA drop-off, so I'll have to test again at some point and see if that's what transpires.

I have read (again, this is just googling and not really verified—from Dr. Christine Northrup) that "Cortisol and DHEA are inversely proportional to each other. When one is up, the other goes down." hmmm.
 

Ema

Senior Member
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Hi All,

I am super new here (well, new to commenting anyway!). I had Cortisol and DHEA tests and got a different result. Low Cortisol (expected) and HIGH DHEA (?). The reference range for the test I took (saliva) was 4 – 15 ng/mL and my result was 17ng/mL. I generally feel (and smell like) everything @justy described above, I wonder how much high DHEA contributes. Ah, my first comment and I'm already talking about my B.O.!

The only info I can really find on low Cort/high DHEA comes from sites talking about "Adrenal Fatigue" and it's "stages" (this combo puts me at the illusive "stage 6"). But the adrenal fatigue/insufficiency world as most of you know is difficult to navigate/integrate with traditional medicine, so it was kind of a false lead. @Ema, I noticed you talking about this in the other DHEA thread—how high DHEA precedes a DHEA drop-off, so I'll have to test again at some point and see if that's what transpires.

I have read (again, this is just googling and not really verified—from Dr. Christine Northrup) that "Cortisol and DHEA are inversely proportional to each other. When one is up, the other goes down." hmmm.
Sometimes they both just go down...

And welcome!
 

justy

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yes @SquidProQuo welcome!! the sweating and B.O problem has been a big issue for me in the past - but in recent years not so much until I took the DHEA - stopped as soon as I stopped taking it (within a week)
 

adreno

PR activist
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4,841
@adreno whats your experience with dhea/preg?
I probably couldn't get through the day without them, especially pregnenolone. If I don't take preg, I get a severe crash the following afternoon, probably from a drop in cortisol (I have low levels). Without DHEA I become weepy, wimpy & weak, tired and my OI gets worse.

I find that you need to balance them, and I need more preg than DHEA, a 2:1 ratio is good in my experience. If someone has low cortisol levels I would start with preg, as DHEA counterbalances cortisol. If you have normal-high cortisol but low DHEA, I would start with DHEA.

I'm taking 50mg preg (oral) and 12.5mg DHEA (sublingual). I was taking 25mg oral DHEA earlier, but I have some liver issues pt, and the oral DHEA makes that worse.
 

heapsreal

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@adreno do u use the preg matrix? ? I have heard it has a better absorption rate then other oral press? I have never tried that version only a basic oral version from biovea.

For me preg seems to increase cortisol and as you say probably a good thing to start with. My cortisol level rose from just in the normal range to the middle of normal range. So helps my cortisol too.

Do u get a good energy effect from hydrocortisone?
 

heapsreal

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[quo"Ema, post: 454912, member: 4199"]Since pregneolone is a GABA antagonist, does anyone see any issues with taking it along with benzos?[/quote]

Not really. I only use preg in the morning and use a benzo at night. I haven't seen any issues with this??
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
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Location
Midwest USA
[quo"Ema, post: 454912, member: 4199"]Since pregneolone is a GABA antagonist, does anyone see any issues with taking it along with benzos?

Not really. I only use preg in the morning and use a benzo at night. I haven't seen any issues with this??[/quote]
I took them together at night once and had some bizarre head feelings...and have been afraid to take them together at all since. Just curious if you'd noticed anything. It could have been a one-off.
 

heapsreal

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[qote="Ema, post: 454916, member: 4199"]Not really. I only use preg in the morning and use a benzo at night. I haven't seen any issues with this??[/quote]
I took them together at night once and had some bizarre head feelings...and have been afraid to take them together at all since. Just curious if you'd noticed anything. It could have been a one-off.[/quote]

I have heard it make people sleepy also but i think it's certain oral versions as it converts to a different type of pregnenlone, maybe this was at higher dose too. Can't remember the specifics. Or may have had something to do with progesterone production or something like that? ?