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Please help, I'm in a predicament

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
Another idea - soak brown rice overnight and cook for an hour. Put into a muslin bag and squeeze some through. Dilute with the rice water.
 

anciendaze

Senior Member
Messages
1,841
Absolutely, totally and utterly agree with you, and have thought this to be the case for a long time. But... what do we do? Who do we talk to? Sitting back and waiting for the inevitable conclusion without intervention is not an option, as far as I'm concerned.
I think this is a case where you need to get an MD who believes there is such an organic disease to give you pointers about how to circumvent the NHS barricades to effective treatment. Perhaps those who investigated the death of Sophia Mirza or testified at the inquest would be able to help with this aspect even if they cannot take direct medical control. In that case they found (at autopsy) damage to the dorsal root ganglia probably caused by invading CD 8+ T cells. This is not evidence of a psychological problem. It is part of a serious public relations problem that might motivate doctors who would otherwise ignore you.

I had wondered how that patient became so averse to medical intervention that she even refused good medical advice. I'm beginning to get the picture.
 

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,475
Location
UK
http://www.sophiaandme.org.uk/sophia & m.e. her story.html

This article on Sophia written by her mother names Dr Chaudhuri of Romford and Dr O'Donovan of Cambrudge as being involved in Sophia's autopsy. I know Dr Chaudhuri has been involved in helping patients who have fallen foul of the NHS in the past. Perhaps he would be prepared to visit Katie and write to her GP.

C.G.
 
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Messages
11
Location
UK
I've attempted to contact Dr Chaudhuri in the past, to no avail.

I'll try Dr O'Donovan.

I expect their reluctance to get involved may stem from the resulting hostility towards them - I certainly got that impression when speaking to another ME doctor, recently, who was trying to help me to get a response from Dr Weir. Sadly, no joy there, either.
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
@Advokate
yes its a big problem - doctors still in practice won't rock the NHS/BMA boat to a large degree. We all know about the witch-hunts that other UK doctors have endured.
 
Messages
6
@anciendaze

Just need to clear up something I misunderstood - Dr. G won't be offering Kate Immunotherapy. Dr. G is basically a doctor of environmental illnesses with... while not specific specialty in ME, some knowledge about it. He will do tests and prescribe drugs mainstream medicine won't (eg: immunovir, which is an immunomodulator and where I got confused), antivirals and possibly nutritional injections. He just has a lot of experience of peculiar diseases, an open mind and a willingness to perform tests and prescribe where others won't. We'd quite like his input on the toxoplasmosis problem. If he takes Katie on, he will probably say she needs to go to Breakspear for immunotherapy but we're nowhere near being able to yet.
 
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A GP just came round to look at her - not the one I asked for who is head of the practice and had seen her before, but a new one... so again, she had to go through the process of explaining what is going on with her. We explained it in great detail and stressed the urgency for a side-room in hospital, because she just cannot tolerate a ward. She spoke about a psych team to 'help with the stress' and deal with the symptoms while she is taking the necessary tests in hospital... which is... frustrating, to say the least. I want to pull out my hair. You cannot make this stuff up.

I posted that on Friday.

So things are being done. In the meantime, we can only hope that Kate will remain stable enough at least until Monday, which is when they will send over the head of the GP team, who we asked for in the first place.

That too.

It is now Tuesday. The head of the practice didn't in fact come yesterday and was supposed to be coming today... but she didn't. Instead, we have just received a phone call from the previous doctor. She wanted to talk to Katie, so I handed over the phone. Over the next minute, I could hear her tone getting more and more defeated until she handed the phone to me and told me she couldn't deal with it. So I spoke to the GP for a moment... she said there have been meetings taking place and that they would like to send a psych team round to determine whether Katie qualifies for a private room in hospital.

I gave her Kate's mum's number and told her to call there. This is a delicate situation, I don't want to risk saying the wrong thing. That being said, its frightening... what is the solution here? Something is telling me that letting a psychiatrist visit her right now is a VERY bad idea. She's not mentally unstable in the slightest, but after so much suffering so constantly, and unable to speak much for the past few days... who knows what they'll look at her and determine?

This isn't my decision to make. I am struggling to keep up with the situation. Katie told me not to open the door if anyone knocks, she is scared they'll send a psych team round from now without warning. She knows she's being paranoid, but I understand her fear. This is a nightmare. :(

Katie's mum called the practice and spoke to the receptionist, asking to speak to certain GPs. They can't. She wasn't told why. She asked to speak to the practice manager. She's busy. The message was repeated: No visit today. She mentioned PALs. Someone will call her back.

Now she's let Katie know that a new GP (but really, Katie's old GP) is coming tomorrow.
 
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Messages
11
Location
UK
Just to add to the above...

Kate's mum has contacted the surgery and is awaiting a call back. Both doctors and head of practice refused to speak to her. Doctor has refused to visit. They have said they're deciding the next steps. I don't like the sound of that, as these 'next steps' are being considered without Kate's input, or indeed the input of her friends/carers, or her family.

I've contacted Dr Speight (what a nice man, wish he was able to see adults) who is trying to get Dr Weir to respond to me.

History is repeating itself, here. Any advice on how to prevent them from pushing this via the psych route would be appreciated. Kate is very ill - she need care, tests and a knowledgable doctor, not a bunch of ME-clueless shrinks.
 

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,475
Location
UK
Just a suggestion.......................but would it not be better if this thread was now taken to the members' only section?

I recall the problems we had with another patient's doctors who followed the posting.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
The only thing I can suggest is that a patient has the right for a second opinion and Kate is waiting for an appointment with a private doctor to achieve this which could be conveyed to the surgery? Sorry this is an area where expert opinion is needed. Is the BS doctor due out this week?
 
Messages
11
Location
UK
Brenda, Kate's mum and I are trying to get hold of Dr Weir. And will continue to. The GP's opinion isn't really one we want in the first place, as she's uneducated about ME and too ignorant to learn.

CG - I personally quite like that this is in the 'public domain' and no names (or locations) have been mentioned, other than those who have been helpful. However, if you think problems are likely to arise as a result... I'd agree we don't need any further issues at the moment!
 
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Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,475
Location
UK
Advokate, names are being mentioned, especially those of certain doctors who have suffered for supporting us in the past. We need to protect them as well as the patients.

C.G.
 
Messages
11
Location
UK
Fair point - there does indeed appear to be a witch hunt going on. How utterly ridiculous this whole thing is... :bang-head:

(P.S. Thank you for your earlier emails - I will reply when I get home from work as I'm typing on my phone just now.)
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
Advokate

I meant the doctor from Breakspear for a second opinion on whether there are psychiatric problems.
 
Messages
11
Location
UK
Sorry Brenda, I misunderstood you.

His advice in the interim was to follow the NHS route to get the weight issue under control. That's what we were attempting to do, via the GP. Sadly, it's come to this.

Kate has her file from Breakspear - which clearly shows various sensitivities and abnormal viral titres. I'm unsure what more he could do to convince these doctors that's she's dealing with a real, physical problem.

Kate's also had a private psych consult in the past (which concluded she's not crazy - surprise surprise). I have to wonder exactly how biased this latest suggested psych assessment would be.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
Hi,

This is Katie's friend. I flew over to take care of her and I've been here for the past month. (Whoever it is who is keeping contact with Kate through emails, I emailed you myself the other day on her email account). I am writing here because she cannot and I don't know where else to turn for help. Her situation is only getting worse.

To begin with, Katie kept up with her 'usual' diet of baby food, pudding cups, chocolate bars and protein shakes made with almond milk (all soy apart from the baby food; no dairy). These were the only things she could tolerate - and when I say tolerate I mean it in the most detached way possible, as she wasn't comfortable eating any of it, just these are the ones that caused her the least discomfort. But recently, her gut discomfort has only got worse, so we've been trying to lay off the soy products in case soy is the reason. Kate has switched to pea protein, but it doesn't have a high calorie content at all, and we're finding ourselves stuck for options. She cannot manage water for the most part, so has been taking coconut water. For a while, she was also taking 60ml of aloe vera mixed in with her drinks.

Over the weeks, we slowly stared to introduce g3, a strong vitamin juice recommended by Dr. Judy Mikovits. We started by adding one teaspoon and have gradually worked our way up to five. However, due to a change in UK law, we have just found out that it's being discontinued and Kate's been pointed towards a different product called JVi which has a multitude of different ingredients. This came as a bit of a shock as she now has a whole new product to get used to.

For the past few days, she hasn't been able to eat much at all. I try to encourage her but she is fully aware as to how dire the situation is and is fighting it with everything she has, so when she says she cannot, she really cannot.

She is not tolerating food on a whole-body level. When she eats, or even drinks water, she begins shaking profusely. She feels poisoned/toxic to an extreme, unbearable level. It affects her breathing, her sinuses, her head, her heart, her general cognitive awareness. Inflammation everywhere goes bananas. She describes the feeling as so intense, it feels like she is about to have a stroke or a fit. All she wants to do is defecate, but there isn't anything inside her and she's not constipated. The more she eats on one particular day (though we are talking very small quantities), the more intense the symptoms get. Her body is screaming at her to not put anything more inside it.

Yet despite this, she does get hungry.. and her actual stomach rumbles and asks for food. It's more a case of
what happens during digestion. She doesn't have problems swallowing, and the actual physical act of eating is fine.

Her problems are not in the stomach, at least not mainly, but rather underneath it. I can only guess potential inflammation of the intestines. Her heart is in trouble too and she frequently reaches a state of tachycardia, related to her POTTS perhaps, but she feels it may be more likely a problem with her left ventricle.

We are in a Catch 22 situation. Everything screams hospital, if only for the tests to find out what is going on, but the exposure and exertion when she is in this state could only make her worse. She cannot afford to crash and get worse. This is the worst she's ever been. She feels like she's dying every day.

A GP just came round to look at her - not the one I asked for who is head of the practice and had seen her before, but a new one... so again, she had to go through the process of explaining what is going on with her. We explained it in great detail and stressed the urgency for a side-room in hospital, because she just cannot tolerate a ward. She spoke about a psych team to 'help with the stress' and deal with the symptoms while she is taking the necessary tests in hospital... which is... frustrating, to say the least. I want to pull out my hair. You cannot make this stuff up.

Is there no way to get around the hospital restrictions and have her transported there with minimal exposure (stretcher, eye mask, face mask) and then be admitted into a private room where I might be able to help her where they cannot? Keep in mind we are in the UK. Her parents have asked many months ago, but to no avail. Her good friend is fighting this battle full on and is trying too, but so far, it seems there is no solution... but to wait until she is literally dying, then risk everything and call 911 without any precaution at all.

As is, they expect her to go in without any form of protection, with exposure to all types of illnesses, in a ward with many people with excessive noise, movement and light. As is, she can hardly roll over in bed; the suggestion of her going to hospital as a regular patient is ludicrous. At the same time, I don't know how long it can be avoided.

Additionally, if any of you have suggestions as to how we might be able to ease symtoms for her along the way, that is always helpful. I aplogize for any potential misinterpretations, I do not have this illness myself. But I am so worried; I love Katie very much and she is suffering. I am at a loss as to how I can help her. This is exhausting for her. She is worse and worse every day.

Nita, Kate got in contact me me recently asking for help/ideas as I was in a similar state as she's in in the past (I didnt thou have the food issues to anywhere the degree she has thou so I consider her situation a lot worst there thou the rest of her symptoms are very much to the degree mine were). Hopefully Ive given some suggestions re MCS issues (I figure you are the one she reacted to shampoo wise the other day) but are thinking hard what further can be done.

Yes it would be ludicous her going to hospital around the chemicals, noise, light and everything else in her current state. Im truely fearing for her life thou right now, she does need hospital but obviously she needs it safely and it done appropriately without the psych stuff put on her with ignoral of her ME or it would even be worst then if she doesnt go at all.

She's lucky to have such a good friend to try to help.

So Ive just come back to this thread to see if Ive missed anything which I could comment on which could help.. anyway the following made me think of something.

She is not tolerating food on a whole-body level. When she eats, or even drinks water, she begins shaking profusely. She feels poisoned/toxic to an extreme, unbearable level. It affects her breathing, her sinuses, her head, her heart, her general cognitive awareness. Inflammation everywhere goes bananas. She describes the feeling as so intense, it feels like she is about to have a stroke or a fit. All she wants to do is defecate, but there isn't anything inside her and she's not constipated. The more she eats on one particular day (though we are talking very small quantities), the more intense the symptoms get. Her body is screaming at her to not put anything more inside it.

Im wondering if that reaction could be autonomic system dysfunction stuff. I was thinking how yuck I can feel at times when my blood volume is too low due to my POTS. When we eat of cause a lot of the autonomic system comes into this, our autonomic system controls the automatic contractions in our body, in the digestive system etc.

When we stimulate our digestive system more blood goes to it and takes it away from other places in our body (I dont know but what having a drink of water also stimulate the body in this way too?). I are wondering how much low blood volume may be playing into things in her case, maybe her eatting/drinking issue is being caused by too low blood volume???

Im wondering what would happen if she was able to be better hydrated to boost her blood volume by meds. (Im going to pm her suggesting maybe to try this if she hasnt done so already).

Anyway..thanks for supporting your friend. You are doing a job which isnt easy there.
 
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taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
I am not a doctor. What training I had in emergency medicine was long ago in the Army. I did have experience there with dehydration, heat stroke and shock. I have never had any doctor tell me to ignore evidence of dehydration. It is right up there behind clearing airways and stopping bleeding.

What Ive found in the past is that the doctors who dont know you, do so little just cause you have a ME/CFS diagnoses, that they dont even check you to see if you are dehydrated and just try sending you right back home.

Im sure that has been missed many times in myself. I was fortunate just to get lucky with the last time I was ambulanced to hospital, if my resting heart rate wasnt noted being 150 bpm and my pulse up to 180. Im sure they wouldnt even have done the blood tests which showed my kidneys were struggling. I probably would of just be kicked out like normal (which has happened even when I couldnt walk out.. they just wheelchair me out and call a taxi then).

Sadly I can imagine a hospital sending a ME patient close to death home, due to the view out there that ME/CFS isnt a serious disease and in UK tests are often discouraged in ME/CFS patients (and when doctors do tests, I find they nearly always do the wrong ones). Doctors who just glance at a ME/CFS person and do nothing else are likely to miss even dehydration.
 
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