How many people have had their 1,25 Vitamin D tested? Debunking the Marshall Protocol

[Msinnott]

I realize now that you can take super high doses of vit d but without calcium it isn't going to do as much. Its all based on feedback mechanisms if you are low in calcium and your body senses that its going to send out high levels of pth to raise your calcium levels into the normal range and your body is going to raise the active form of vitamin d 1,25 to compensate.

 

[leokitten]

Like a few of you have stated, there are more simple explanations as to why one has low 25-OH D3 and high 1,25-di-OH D3 (calcitriol) and I don't think the Marshall Protocol stated causes for why this happens are correct for most people. It's likely just due to a lack of calcium and that's what you need to fix:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/blog/activated-vitamin-d-vs-25ohd-levels-what-should-you-measure/
Unlike 25(OH)D, calcitriol in the blood is an adaptive hormone; it is inversely related to the amount of calcium in the intestine. If there is no calcium in the intestine, calcitriol levels go up to remove calcium from bone making osteoporosis worse. If calcium is present in sufficient quantities in the intestine, that calcium is absorbed and activated vitamin D levels fall.

Calcitriol in the blood, for just one draw in one patient, has little relationship to 25(OH)D levels. In fact, 25(OH)D levels are often low when calcitriol levels are high. The reference range for calcitriol is usually 17–75 ng/L for healthy adults.

A few months ago, I got a letter from a woman who mistakenly had her calcitriol levels measured. Her calcitriol levels were high even though her 25(OH)D levels were low. I recommended that she take extra calcium in her diet and also take a supplement that contained calcium, magnesium, K2, and zinc. I also recommended that she take 5,000 IU/day of vitamin D even though her activated vitamin D levels were high. Below is her follow up letter.

Hi Dr Cannell:

I wanted to keep my promise and follow up with you regarding the high calcitriol that had everyone so concerned.

You instructed me to start taking at least 1000 mg of Calcium/Mg/ZN daily. I also began taking 5,000 IU/day of D3. I have begun drinking milk again and my calcium intake has come closer to 2000 mg daily over the last two months.

• On 10-12-2012 the calcitriol level was 128 ng/L.
• On 11-12-2012 the level was 95.0
• On 21-21-2012 the level was 62.0.

 

[Beyond]

Good post, that makes more sense than the BS of Marshall.

 

[MeSci]

Like a few of you have stated, there are more simple explanations as to why one has low 25-OH D3 and high 1,25-di-OH D3 (calcitriol) and I don't think the Marshall Protocol stated causes for why this happens are correct for most people. It's likely just due to a lack of calcium and that's what you need to fix:

Unlike 25(OH)D, calcitriol in the blood is an adaptive hormone; it is inversely related to the amount of calcium in the intestine. If there is no calcium in the intestine, calcitriol levels go up to remove calcium from bone making osteoporosis worse. If calcium is present in sufficient quantities in the intestine, that calcium is absorbed and activated vitamin D levels fall.

Calcitriol in the blood, for just one draw in one patient, has little relationship to 25(OH)D levels. In fact, 25(OH)D levels are often low when calcitriol levels are high. The reference range for calcitriol is usually 17–75 ng/L for healthy adults.

A few months ago, I got a letter from a woman who mistakenly had her calcitriol levels measured. Her calcitriol levels were high even though her 25(OH)D levels were low. I recommended that she take extra calcium in her diet and also take a supplement that contained calcium, magnesium, K2, and zinc. I also recommended that she take 5,000 IU/day of vitamin D even though her activated vitamin D levels were high. Below is her follow up letter.

Hi Dr Cannell:

I wanted to keep my promise and follow up with you regarding the high calcitriol that had everyone so concerned.

You instructed me to start taking at least 1000 mg of Calcium/Mg/ZN daily. I also began taking 5,000 IU/day of D3. I have begun drinking milk again and my calcium intake has come closer to 2000 mg daily over the last two months.

I did a search for that article and it is here.

It sounds plausible.

A lot of us seem to be dairy-intolerant, but you can be assured that dairy products are by no means necessary for an adequate calcium intake. The following may be of interest (sorry about poor quality).

 

[redaxe]

The Marshall Protocol has been around for years now. If it was as effective as its claimed to be then why aren't we seeing the results?

Also my vit d results from several months ago
25-OH D: 81 nmol/L (51-140)
1-25 D: 220 (65-175)

 

[Msinnott]

Has anyone started lowering there vitamin d? I was at 5000 for a month and decided to start going a little lower because I felt so much better after the intial herx of lowering vitamin d. I dropped down to 2000 and started taking bromelian. I have been herxing like crazy increased joint and muscle pain. Lymph nodes in neck and arm pits swollen been getting high fever first day of swollen nodes. I am now on day 5 and every day I seem to be getting a little more energy and less pain. I have this chronic pain for a long time.

 

[Leopardtail]

You asked if anybody here had low 25,Vit-D and low 1,25 Vit D. I do on both counts.

The picture with inflammation is simple - the immune system uses Vitamin D hence it should be high during inflammation. Converting 25,VitD to 1,25 VitD requires ATP so in severe ME you may well have inflammation and low 1,5 form. Many do in fact have low vitamin D.

A bare adult torso in warm climates produces 10,000IU of vitamin D / hour so supplementing 5,000IU or less is very unlikely to do harm. Worries about high Vitamin D were caused by extreme examples of overdosing.

It's most worth trying if you never get outdoors, or if you get much worse in winter. I would consider it more risky if you had high 0,25 Vit D rather than normal.

 

[leokitten]

Interesting reading for everyone

Vitamin D and the Immune System
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3166406/

 

[cigana]

I have high 1,25 Di-OH Vit D at 99.4 (20.0-75.0).

 

[amaru7]

I don't think much of Marshall, he's not even a medical doctor and he is alone in his theories. Vitamin D has been researched extremely well and is never proven to do harm. To me the guru in Vitamin D is always Professor holick. He has been one of the foremost researchers in this and I like his lectures very much, because he's entertaining and informative at the same time

 

[Msinnott]

Well since lowering my vitamin d my 25oh levels are now 60. When they were only 50 on 10,000 iui vit d. I also have been taking mk7. I am going to try dropping my vitamin d down 2500iui since it's summer time now. Sometimes more isn't always better. Who knew I needed less to get my levels up where they needed to be.

 

[Leopardtail]

I have high 1,25 Di-OH Vit D at 99.4 (20.0-75.0).

I was reading in williams yesterday that Vitamin D goes up with hypothyroidism, seems kinda weird but c'est la vie

 

[MeSci]

I was reading in williams yesterday that Vitamin D goes up with hypothyroidism, seems kinda weird but c'est la vie

Which type of Vitamin D goes up? How does hypothyroidism affect the balance between the two types?

 

[cigana]

I was reading in williams yesterday that Vitamin D goes up with hypothyroidism, seems kinda weird but c'est la vie

Had my thyroid hormones tested a few times (T4,T3, free T4, TSH, reverse T3), everything's fine. Also tried a course of T3.

 

[Leopardtail]

Which type of Vitamin D goes up? How does hypothyroidism affect the balance between the two types?

The text indicated that the conversion of 0,25 Vitamin D (storage form) to 1,25 Vitamin D (active form) was upregulated. It gave no indication of whether 0.25 Vitamin was replaced or lowered.

 

[roxie60]

My recent D 25 OH hydroxy was 25. Has not been higher than 55. Never tested 1.25, just read about it last night. Found it interesting that Marshall listed patients with Lyme. This stuff is so complex. Glad there is another paper. Also a bit scarry one paper commented that the use of long term Bactrim (septra?) caused Lupus.

 

[roxie60]

I wonder how our genes might impact our vit D levels in addition to infections and autoimmune issues

 

[Beyond]

I will probably try one last time supplementing vitamin D. Candidates are mycellized or Vitashine derived from lichen. Other attempts have proven to be highly placebolic despite very promising studies showing deep impact on sleep.

 

[roxie60]

I'm using g Ortho molecular VitD3 K2

 

[Beyond]

I'm using g Ortho molecular VitD3 K2

Thats a very expensive brand, should be high quality. However I have taken also professional level brands with no improvement at all. What I am expecting from D3 or any supplement really is some relief of symptoms, even if subtle. If you don´t feel better, why bother?