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B12 and Insomnia

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
Oh, there are blood tests?! I thought the reason people did hair was that the blood ones were not accurate.... clearly I have a lot to learn. Can you give me more detail on what you mean by 'more sophisticated'?

My doc orders tests, but maybe 2/3 of them the local lab replies that they cannot do that test, and cannot send samples out to a lab that can do them. We have all found that a bit frustrating. Local lab will only send to certain other labs. But if I can suggest tests by name to my doc she will request them.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
Oh, there are blood tests?! I thought the reason people did hair was that the blood ones were not accurate.... clearly I have a lot to learn. Can you give me more detail on what you mean by 'more sophisticated'?

My doc orders tests, but maybe 2/3 of them the local lab replies that they cannot do that test, and cannot send samples out to a lab that can do them. We have all found that a bit frustrating. Local lab will only send to certain other labs. But if I can suggest tests by name to my doc she will request them.

Generally you use a kit supplied by a specialized lab and your doctor or a local lab draws the blood and then they or you send the kit by FedEx or UPS--all the tubes and packaging is supplies by the lab.

NutrEval from Genova is one of the best (in my opinion) and Spectracell is another one with a good reputation. I have had both. NutraEval is more comprehensive but you would need to make sure that the test you choose is covered by your insurance.

Sushi
 

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
Oh. My doc did try to get my insurance to cover either of those, but was not successful. The out of pocket cost is equal to or double my monthly income.

She then tried to get some of the most important sub-tests (blood) from the local lab, but they couldn't do most.

I don't know where to go from here. What do people do when they cannot afford stuff?

Edited to add: Would a comprehensive nutritional panel done by a naturopath 5 years ago be useful now? It could even be one of those two, for all I know. I was very ill at the time and have lost my copy, but I bet I could get another printout.

This thread keeps making me cry.
 
Last edited:

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Nila, I'm sorry you aren't getting anywhere. I doubt that a 5 yo test would do much good re your current situation. I've mostly given up on testing. I read too many accounts of results which don't adequately express the true picture of what's going on. I've been continuing on based on my symptoms. And I use self-testing for my supps. Fortunately, I started w/ this technique just as i was sliding into illness, so I've had a long time to learn to trust it. There are a number of youtube vids for muscle testing. I doubt this will give you much comfort in the moment, but it's all I can add. Could it be something other than B12 that's keeping you awake? Is it possible you're experiencing low K+ that's disrupting things? BTW, I haven't seen any posts from Freddd for about 2 weeks.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
@NilaJones

I don't think you can trust that a test that is 5 years old would tell you much about your levels now--unless the results pointed to SNPs that were involved in deficiencies.

Can you get that panel repeated? Or could the naturopath suggest a panel that your insurance would cover?

It is so sad when finances prevent us from getting the tests and treatment that might help us.

P.S. Patients can call Genova and ask about insurance coverage for their tests. Maybe they could give some clues about what your insurance would cover.

Best wishes,
Sushi
 

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
@ahmo and @Sushi:

Thank you so much. And I hope Freddd is ok.

My insurance is small, local, and picky. They don't cover much. I can't change companies, either (I was hoping I would be able to under Obamacare, but no).

Every time I have a problem I think it is potassium, and so far every time I am wrong :). I've tried doubling my K+ intake, and halving it, and neither one affects the insomnia/speediness.

I am still wondering why it is a common, standard side effect for healthy people but not for folks here. I mean, not even a side effect -- people elseweb talk about taking B12 specifically for the increased energy. Like it's not a bug, it's a feature.

But do I understand correctly that here it is a very rare reaction?

I was looking at my methylation SNPs (listed in my sig file) -- could the problem be my MAO-B (slowing breakdown of serotonin) and/or COMT (slowing breakdown of norepinephrine)? Does my upregulated MTR use B12? I am not taking any folate, but do I have too much in my diet?
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
The MTRR++ suggests you need extra B12. You might be right about the MAO-B and COMT. Have you tried low dose lithium orotate? It's been hugely beneficial for me to stop my over-emotionality. What about the MAO-A: this suggests problems w/ histamines. Could too much histamine be the issue? Or, w/ CBS, too much sulfur, tho you say you have low urine sulfate. I don't know if this automatically translates to low sulfate elsewhere in the body. Excess glutamate? like from the tinned clams? I can't answer whether this is a rare reaction here. I've been amazed at how my sleep has improved w/ increasing B12/folate. How much folate do you have in your diet? Could it be that the low folate, especially in relation to B12, is causing insomnia? Many of the many symptoms, as Freddd has documented, are associated with both too much and too little folate, (or, so-called 'over' and 'under'-methylation.)
 

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
The MTRR++ suggests you need extra B12. You might be right about the MAO-B and COMT. Have you tried low dose lithium orotate? It's been hugely beneficial for me to stop my over-emotionality.

I actually have a flattened affect, most of the time, from being sick.

What about the MAO-A: this suggests problems w/ histamines. Could too much histamine be the issue?

Ihave a lot of urine hisstamine, too (See sig file). I have been doing a low histamine diet for the past few weeks, and testing things one at a time to see if I react. (So far, I do.) It's had no effect on sleep, though.

Or, w/ CBS, too much sulfur, tho you say you have low urine sulfate. I don't know if this automatically translates to low sulfate elsewhere in the body.

I think it is supposed to, but I don't know a lot about that.

Excess glutamate? like from the tinned clams?

Is only 1/2 teaspoon daily of clam juice. That's all I can tolerate for the speediness. So I am guessing that is not a lot of glutamate?

I can't answer whether this is a rare reaction here. I've been amazed at how my sleep has improved w/ increasing B12/folate. How much folate do you have in your diet? Could it be that the low folate, especially in relation to B12, is causing insomnia? Many of the many symptoms, as Freddd has documented, are associated with both too much and too little folate, (or, so-called 'over' and 'under'-methylation.)

I don't know. I feel best if I eat 5+ serving of greens a day, but lately I only get around to it a few times a week. I was taking 1/100 of a Folapro every 10 days (easier than 1/1000 daily), but people here suggested I stop it so I did. I didn't notice any change except that I kind of have an impulse to go take it again.

Thank you so much for helping me think about this stuff.
 

Star-Anise

Senior Member
Messages
218
@NilaJones

Hi there!

I've read through the thread, & I recall earlier this year you were having issues with cramping at night. Has this been resolved? I see you are taking large doses of calcium & said was to help with cramping.

From what I can understand from reading through the thread is that you are experiencing increased energy in response to B12 in clams, but this is causing insomnia? Do I have your question right?

For me, if I took my B12 @ night, it likely could cause me insomnia. I know you aren't taking yours @ night. I have 2 responses my body seems to favor when overwhelmed: anxiety & fatigue, depending on how overwhelmed it is.

Insomnia is really tricky. I have struggled with it for most of my life.

There was several periods in my healing journey when my insomnia would temporarily increase. The naturopath at the time said that this was quite normal, & it likely would level out over time with continued support, & it did.

If you are high histamine then this could be one of the key areas that can contribute to insomnia. I also had a very high histamine like profile, but never had mine tested. For about 6months, I used anti-histamines to sleep, and they worked fabulously. This was actually endorsed by my naturopath as legitimate treatment at the time as my insomnia was related to my high histamine.

It is possible that with increased B12 in diet that you could have a heightened histamine response at first. This did happen to me, and I think that it is part of the healing, and why it is so very important to go slow/low @ first as to not further exacerbate this common inflammatory response.

I don't have the exact details, but I know as some of the healing was occurring for me, I know that there was a balancing of serotonin/melatonin/cortisol. All of these are related, and all of these can cause insomnia if out of balance. Many of us have stressed adrenals, and there is a relationship between low cortisol and low melatonin/serotonin. As the adrenals heal from a place of total exhaustion, a common expression could be continued low am cortisol, but heightened pm cortisol. The only way to tell if this is happening for you is to have a saliva test done.

Sleep hygiene also becomes of vital importance, as if the serotonin/melatonin pathway is weak, which is likely is with MAO snp, then it is possible that the normal sleep cascade of increased melatonin as the day progresses could be interrupted. I find I need to shut off all lights a few hours before bed, be very careful of electronic use, and sleep in a 100% darkened room.

I had said that I would ask the sleep experts here that I work with in regards to your propensity for cramps at night. They said that one's entire chemistry & physiology changes at night. A lot of it can be in relation to dopamine, and that is why treatment for restless legs works on the dopamine receptors.

As well, there is the research around beta/alpha waves. I find that brown noise (like white noise but less sharp) really helps me fall sleep & there is some research that it increases the waves necessary for restorative sleep. The doctors also said that there are medications that help support decreased leg cramping.

It's really possible that the increased insomnia is a peripheral symptom caused by healing reactions. If you are going slow/low with supplements then I would just keep trial/error-ing different approaches until you find a place of balance.

Personally, I found sleep to so vital to my healing that there was more benefit in taking the medications (Imovane - was what I used for some time) & getting sleep, then not sleeping & having my healing interfered with.

With respect to added supplements, I would focus on making sure you have adequate magnesium. That has been a big one to support sleep function for me. I think the rest will fall into place as you work through methylation supplements. You are right at different stages it will be important to introduce different cofactors, and you may even want to support the melatonin/serotonin/tryptophan pathway with supplements. You would have to experiment with different stages of that pathway & see what is the most useful point to supplement. For me it's tryptophan.

In my experience the insomnia improved significantly as I moved on in the healing process.

Hope that helps :)
 
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caledonia

Senior Member
Hi Nila,

If I am remembering past discussions with you correctly, I think we already ruled out CBS as a possible cause of B12 being overstimulating. Star Anise hit on a lot of good points.

Sleep is mainly about neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters will be screwed up because methylation is required to make neurotransmitters. So if methylation is screwed up, neurotransmitters will likely be screwed up. Also about 80% of the neurotransmitters are made in the gut. So if you have gut issues, it could cause this. There could also be leaky gut causing inflammation problems which could possibly cause sleep problems - you do have both "leaky gut" SNPs - ACAT and SHMT. I can't remember if you have ruled out gut issues or not.

Usually we're low in serotonin, and melatonin, and can be high in the stimulating glutamate and histamine. A neurotransmitter test could possibly be helpful. It would be cheaper than a whole Nutreval panel.

At one point, my naturopath had me taking many of the neurotransmitters all at once and it helped some. 5htp for serotonin, taken in the morning and throughout the day, melatonin extended release for melatonin, taken before bedtime, GABA, theanine or Kavinace to counteract high glutamate (as well as an MSG free diet). She also had me try Benadryl which would lower histamine. That one didn't seem to do anything one way or the other, but if that's your problem it could be huge. Magnesium was another thing she had me taking as a calming supplement for sleep and it also helped my restless legs (see below). The other thing she taught me was to take supplements throughout the day, not just once a day or at bedtime. This helps them absorb better and allows you to take more of them if that's what's needed.

The thing with the sleep hygiene and light in the evening has been huge for me. Your body produces serotonin and melatonin in response to morning and evening light. Morning light is blue and evening light is amber. However, computers and tv emit blue light. So if you're looking at those in the evening, it will tell your body to produce serotonin, which will wake you up - the opposite of what you want. I've seen many healthy people complain about this, but I believe there is an enhanced effect for those of us with low neurotransmitters. You can stay off the computer and tv completely in the evening and/or wear amber colored blue blocker type sunglasses. There are also programs to turn your computer screen orange. The other culprit can be "daylight" light bulbs (blue in color) if you have any of those. Replace them with regular light bulbs which are in the warm range.

And of course, functional things like leg cramps, pain, apnea and so forth, will also screw up sleep. I was able to get a sleep study paid for by Medicare which picked up on my restless legs, which I had no idea I was doing. So that's another possibility.

Here's a random thought. Maybe there is something about clams which is a problem. You could rule this out by taking an actual B12 supplement. I have some Yasko hydroxy liquid here which you can have if you want. I opened it, tried a drop and found out I don't tolerate it. So it's just sitting in my fridge doing nothing. I've been looking for the right person to give it to. Send me a Conversation if that sounds like something you would like to try. Yasko suggests mostly hydroxy for your SNPs (the most sensitive combination!).

I also do self muscle testing, and find it instrumental in helping decide what is good or bad to take and what amounts, how often and so forth. While it's not always 100% accurate (see the story above about the hydroxy) it's usually pretty good, and much faster than trial and error.

This is my favorite how to video:
 

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
@Star-Anise and @caledonia

Thank you so much! I am overwhelmed by the effort you put into trying to help me.

I will try to answer things point by point, but my typing is limited due to a bad reaction tonight so should clarify a few things first:

- The insomnia is specific to B12, and specific to dose. I do not have insomnia when I don't take B12. I also don't have it if I stay at the same tiny dose. The only time I have insomnia is when I try to increase the dose.

- I have tried B12 supplements, but they were worse than the clams. I could not find a dose small enough to tolerate. I tired hydroxy (perque) and methyl (sisu), NOT together, but a month or more apart.
 
Last edited:

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
@NilaJones
I've read through the thread, & I recall earlier this year you were having issues with cramping at night. Has this been resolved? I see you are taking large doses of calcium & said was to help with cramping.

Mostly resolved. If i forget either calcium or Mg i get cramps, of different kinds.

From what I can understand from reading through the thread is that you are experiencing increased energy in response to B12 in clams, but this is causing insomnia? Do I have your question right?

When I increase the dose, yes.

There was several periods in my healing journey when my insomnia would temporarily increase. The naturopath at the time said that this was quite normal, & it likely would level out over time with continued support, & it did.

If you are high histamine then this could be one of the key areas that can contribute to insomnia. I also had a very high histamine like profile, but never had mine tested. For about 6months, I used anti-histamines to sleep, and they worked fabulously. This was actually endorsed by my naturopath as legitimate treatment at the time as my insomnia was related to my high histamine.

I think i have high histamine. I am working with diet for it.

It is possible that with increased B12 in diet that you could have a heightened histamine response at first. This did happen to me,

Orly!!!

and I think that it is part of the healing, and why it is so very important to go slow/low @ first as to not further exacerbate this common inflammatory response.

I do not get increased inflammation with increased B12.

I don't have the exact details, but I know as some of the healing was occurring for me, I know that there was a balancing of serotonin/melatonin/cortisol. All of these are related, and all of these can cause insomnia if out of balance. Many of us have stressed adrenals, and there is a relationship between low cortisol and low melatonin/serotonin. As the adrenals heal from a place of total exhaustion, a common expression could be continued low am cortisol, but heightened pm cortisol. The only way to tell if this is happening for you is to have a saliva test done.

Hmmm... i do have more energy in the pm than i expect, but this may just be because i am not dead-exhausted at end of day like i used to be.

Sleep hygiene also becomes of vital importance, as if the serotonin/melatonin pathway is weak, which is likely is with MAO snp, then it is possible that the normal sleep cascade of increased melatonin as the day progresses could be interrupted. I find I need to shut off all lights a few hours before bed, be very careful of electronic use, and sleep in a 100% darkened room.

I had said that I would ask the sleep experts here that I work with in regards to your propensity for cramps at night. They said that one's entire chemistry & physiology changes at night. A lot of it can be in relation to dopamine, and that is why treatment for restless legs works on the dopamine receptors.

As well, there is the research around beta/alpha waves. I find that brown noise (like white noise but less sharp) really helps me fall sleep & there is some research that it increases the waves necessary for restorative sleep. The doctors also said that there are medications that help support decreased leg cramping.

It's really possible that the increased insomnia is a peripheral symptom caused by healing reactions. If you are going slow/low with supplements then I would just keep trial/error-ing different approaches until you find a place of balance.

Personally, I found sleep to so vital to my healing that there was more benefit in taking the medications (Imovane - was what I used for some time) & getting sleep, then not sleeping & having my healing interfered with.

Is that better than just keeping the same b12 dose, which allows me to sleep?

I have been at the same dose for, I dunno, a year maybe?

@Freddd kinda scared me when he said I would never get better at the current dose. I have had a pattern, in some areas of life, of thinking that incremental improvement was as good as it gets, and not realising improvement could and should be far faster. So I worry about doing that with methylation.

With respect to added supplements, I would focus on making sure you have adequate magnesium. That has been a big one to support sleep function for me. I think the rest will fall into place as you work through methylation supplements. You are right at different stages it will be important to introduce different cofactors, and you may even want to support the melatonin/serotonin/tryptophan pathway with supplements. You would have to experiment with different stages of that pathway & see what is the most useful point to supplement. For me it's tryptophan.

In my experience the insomnia improved significantly as I moved on in the healing process.

Hope that helps :)

Thank you, and very big hugs :). Killing me to type, but very grateful!
 
Last edited:

caledonia

Senior Member
Hmmm. Glutamate? Histamine? both of those would be stimulating. The only other thing I can think of besides that is to try some very low dose lithium. Lithium is required for B12 transport, so if you're low in that maybe B12 is floating around causing a glutamate or histamine reaction instead of being utilized?

The amount of lithium would be nothing like the doses used for bipolar.

For high glutamate, you would want to eliminate MSG (in most processes foods and condiments) and the four foods naturally high in glutamate from your diet - peas, tomatoes, Parmesan cheese and mushrooms. Then take GABA or theanine, 3-4 times a day.

You're already working on histamine. It seems like you could use Benadryl to do a quick check of this to rule it in or out (assuming you tolerate it). I'm not sure of supps for histamine.
 

whodathunkit

Senior Member
Messages
1,160
caledonia said:
Lithium is required for B12 transport, so if you're low in that maybe B12 is floating around causing a glutamate or histamine reaction

That is an interesting nugget of information! Thanks, Caledonia!
 

Star-Anise

Senior Member
Messages
218
@NilaJones
I agree. I would do a anti-histamine check to see if it helps the insomnia with increased B12. Just a thought. As suggested above by Calendonia.
I have a hunch that if the insomnia is from B12, that it would go away with slow titration up. It did for me. Maybe only do increased dose once per week. And if insomnia does happen, use antihistamine or prn sleep meds to help. I agree with Fredd, you may have to increase B12 doses over time to continue healing.
S:)
 

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
Maybe only do increased dose once per week.

I am trying to increase it once a year and failing! I would love to be able to increase once a week, and am trying to learn how I can do that.

It looks like I am indeed settling for less progress than I should. I did not realise that other people were able to increase so often.

How do I trial benadryl? Yes, it will make me sleepy -- that is a standard side effect. I sometimes use micro-dose antihistamine (1mg amytriptiline) for sleep, and it works great. But for testing histamine effect am I looking for a different reaction?

-

I figure I should say more about my insomnia. It is not so much about getting to sleep, more about waking up too early.

If I increase b12 by 10-20%, taken when I get up in the morning, I don't feel anxiety or anything emotional. I have energy like a person who drinks a cup of coffee, and at bedtime I don't feel sleepy till an hour later than usual.

But the real problem is the next morning. I wake up 2-3 hours early and I just feel 'done sleeping'. I feel ready to get up and start my day. But when I do, I feel awful. My virus symptoms all increase -- low fever, nausea, body aches, malaise -- and I feel like I have had way too little sleep.

The longest I have stuck this out is 3-4 days of feeling horrible. Then I go back down to my old dose because I feel I am risking a major crash by getting so sick and sleep deprived.

I did take drugs to sleep the last time I tried this, but I still never slept quite enough. I hesitate to take more drugs, but it is an option.
 

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
Hmmm. Glutamate? Histamine? both of those would be stimulating. The only other thing I can think of besides that is to try some very low dose lithium. Lithium is required for B12 transport, so if you're low in that maybe B12 is floating around causing a glutamate or histamine reaction instead of being utilized?

Taking b12 gives me a dramatic decrease in inflammation, so it is being utilized for that, at least. Are there other signs I can look for?

For high glutamate, you would want to eliminate MSG

I have done that for the past 30 years, because I react to it.

and the four foods naturally high in glutamate from your diet - peas, tomatoes, Parmesan cheese and mushrooms.

I have not eaten them for the past month (tomatoes) or 8 months (the others), as part of diet experimentation.

Then take GABA or theanine, 3-4 times a day.

I am waiting for some in the mail!

I know I owe you a reply to your wonderful previous post. Pacing my typing :).
 

Star-Anise

Senior Member
Messages
218
Ah so it seems the issue is sleep maintenance. That is an important clarification.

For me early rising in the past has had to do with increased cortisol production - might not be huge overall, but I have a theory that receptor sites become downregulated, & small increases in cortisol and adrenal function can overwhelm system until system becomes reacquainted with increased cortisol production- but this is just a theory based on my own subjective experience only.

A second factor has been hypoglycemia. This could be remedied by a low histamine snack before bed, something with fat/protein in it.

I did take drugs to sleep the last time I tried this, but I still never slept quite enough. I hesitate to take more drugs, but it is an option.

I would try it. I think it would be worth it to support sleep to get more B12 in you. I have a hunch the insomnia will lessen over time. It did take me a couple of years though to fully work through the insomnia side effect of reactivating energy systems during the day. And even now lately, it has been happening again with some early wakings, but I'm able to lull myself back to sleep with some brown noise. It helps that my room is completely black.

How do I trial benadryl? Yes, it will make me sleepy -- that is a standard side effect. I sometimes use micro-dose antihistamine (1mg amytriptiline) for sleep, and it works great. But for testing histamine effect am I looking for a different reaction?

I don't know much about this sorry. All I know is that I was told I likely had high histamine due to my symptoms (food sensitivities, tendency for anxiety/insomnia...) & when I took anti-histamines they really worked for awhile to help with insomnia.

I guess you would know histamine is likely an issue, if you take them & you sleep through the night. If not, it's likely some other combination.

I'm assuming there are some other kinds of tests that one can do to tell if their are a high histamine type chronically. There's lots written about histadelia and such out there.

S:)
 

NilaJones

Senior Member
Messages
647
Alright, now I am replying to @caledonia's first post :).

I trialed GF oats last night and it flared up my inflammation, so very limited typing. One thing about histamine diet is food reactions seem to settle much more quickly -- days not weeks. So I do think there is a histamine factor of some sort. Does not affect sleep, though.


Hi Nila,

If I am remembering past discussions with you correctly, I think we already ruled out CBS as a possible cause of B12 being overstimulating. Star Anise hit on a lot of good points.

Yes to both :)

Sleep is mainly about neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters will be screwed up because methylation is required to make neurotransmitters. So if methylation is screwed up, neurotransmitters will likely be screwed up. Also about 80% of the neurotransmitters are made in the gut. So if you have gut issues, it could cause this. There could also be leaky gut causing inflammation problems which could possibly cause sleep problems - you do have both "leaky gut" SNPs - ACAT and SHMT. I can't remember if you have ruled out gut issues or not.

I def have some food sensitivities. For last 8 months I have been working on identifying them, and have been on a paleo diet since August. Many foods yet to test.

Usually we're low in serotonin, and melatonin, and can be high in the stimulating glutamate and histamine. A neurotransmitter test could possibly be helpful. It would be cheaper than a whole Nutreval panel.

Ok. What is a good one?

At one point, my naturopath had me taking many of the neurotransmitters all at once and it helped some. 5htp for serotonin, taken in the morning and throughout the day, melatonin extended release for melatonin, taken before bedtime, GABA, theanine or Kavinace to counteract high glutamate (as well as an MSG free diet). She also had me try Benadryl which would lower histamine. That one didn't seem to do anything one way or the other, but if that's your problem it could be huge.

Aside from sleepiness, what effects should I look for when trialing benadryl?

Magnesium was another thing she had me taking as a calming supplement for sleep and it also helped my restless legs (see below). The other thing she taught me was to take supplements throughout the day, not just once a day or at bedtime. This helps them absorb better and allows you to take more of them if that's what's needed.

I def do that.

The thing with the sleep hygiene and light in the evening has been huge for me. Your body produces serotonin and melatonin in response to morning and evening light. Morning light is blue and evening light is amber. However, computers and tv emit blue light. So if you're looking at those in the evening, it will tell your body to produce serotonin, which will wake you up - the opposite of what you want. I've seen many healthy people complain about this, but I believe there is an enhanced effect for those of us with low neurotransmitters. You can stay off the computer and tv completely in the evening and/or wear amber colored blue blocker type sunglasses. There are also programs to turn your computer screen orange. The other culprit can be "daylight" light bulbs (blue in color) if you have any of those. Replace them with regular light bulbs which are in the warm range.

I do have the reg bulbs. I have zero insomnia unless I try to increase my b12. Then my problem is mainly waking up too early. (Details in an above post.)

I can def believe neurotrans are an issue, since my prob is that I just do not feel tired in am. Until I get up.

And of course, functional things like leg cramps, pain, apnea and so forth, will also screw up sleep. I was able to get a sleep study paid for by Medicare which picked up on my restless legs, which I had no idea I was doing. So that's another possibility.

That's great they paid for it!

I did get an OV with a sleep doc last summer. Took years to arrange. He was very nice, but not able to help. One prob is that, due to permanent injuries, I cannot wear the oxy monitor. He said sleep study would not be much use without it. Plus, out of pocket cost is $3,000.

Here's a random thought. Maybe there is something about clams which is a problem. You could rule this out by taking an actual B12 supplement. I have some Yasko hydroxy liquid here which you can have if you want. I opened it, tried a drop and found out I don't tolerate it. So it's just sitting in my fridge doing nothing. I've been looking for the right person to give it to. Send me a Conversation if that sounds like something you would like to try. Yasko suggests mostly hydroxy for your SNPs (the most sensitive combination!).

That is so nice of you! Perque hydroxy and Sisu methyl were both worse than clams. Do you think Yasko hydroxy would be different?

I also do self muscle testing, and find it instrumental in helping decide what is good or bad to take and what amounts, how often and so forth. While it's not always 100% accurate (see the story above about the hydroxy) it's usually pretty good, and much faster than trial and error.

This is my favorite how to video:

I do know how to do it, but I do not really believe in it. Maybe I should give it a go... I do just try to pay careful attention to what my body wants. But of course I do not always know, especially with things I have never had.

I have learned what it feels like when I need calcium, magnesium,iron, copper, and sort of zinc -- each of those. Also vit D and C. But other stuff, not yet!