How-I-Recovered-From-CFS-part 2

[Radio]

MY STORY
My symptoms first became evident in my early twenties. I had extreme chemical sensitivity and was intolerant to any alcohol indulgences. I developed skin issues, food allergies, and insomnia. In my early thirties I began to develop muscle atrophy which could not be clearly diagnosed. I also had digestive issues and frequent abdominal pain. I have been studying nutrition and researching books that were health related for many years. I began eating a diet very similar to Atkins. I was successful in maintaining my health but still had digestive issues and muscle pain. In 2011 I tested positive for H pylori and was treated with a toxic antibiotic protocol. Soon after I developed numbness in my left hand and later discovered through my own lab testing I had a B12 deficiency. At this point I began studying the text-book of Functional Medicine. I initiated the four gut healing protocol program and supplemented the B12 deficiency. I was feeling better. I started following a modified paleo diet regimen. However, I was still experiencing fibromyalgia symptom. In 2012 I got really sick and my body was experiencing flu like symptoms. I started losing weight rapidly. I experienced a one hundred pound weight loss in less than a year's time. I was convinced that I was dying and was ready to giving up on life. I was so weak, I could not do simple daily functions we often take for granted. I was unable to continue working due to my lack of stamina. I had extensive testing done with a functional medicine doctor and often found myself searching for testing that I could have run on myself through independent labs. This is when I discovered Dr. Amy Yasko's work on autism and nutrigenomics. I studied her work, as well as Dr. Sarah Myhill's. I also referenced Fred Davis' protocol and began the extensive research needed to heal my self at any cost. I developed my own recovery protocol. I started feeling better. In eight weeks, combined with my anti-inflammatory diet and mitochondria support, I regained my energy and fully recovered from chronic fatigue. I hope my story can inspire others to see that recovery is possible.


Hypochlorhydria + Dysbiosis + Chronic inflammation = Acquired Mitochondrial Damage


I am convinced that the toxic waste produced by the pathogenic bacteria can be very damaging, especially when we are not methylating RNA, DNA and phosphatidylcholine. Acquired mitochondria damage is a normal part of aging and for unknown reasons is accelerated in this syndrome. The immune system and viral infections are in the crossfire in this metabolic disaster. There needs to be a balance in methylation and gut fermentation. The human microbiome and the methylation cycle are connented at the hip in a manner of speaking. We do have some understanding of the methylation at this point. We are in the dark ages when it comes to human microbiome. We need more information on dysbiosis relating to methylation and environmental factors. The immune system and the mitochondria are critical in these metabolic imbalances.


What is the root cause of the dysbiosis imbalance?


Let's add in H-pylori and gastritis into the mix. H-pylori infection can dramatically reduces stomach acid. This could be the main problem contributing to dysbiosis imbalances. Hydrochloric acid deficiency and heavy metal toxicity can be a issue in this dysfunctional metabolism. The body needs (HCL) to help make minerals and nutrients more absorbable and to achieve the correct flora balance. Stomach acid is also required to liberate vitamin B12 from food. Intestinal bacterial overgrowth can produce histamine, hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen peroxide, tryptophanase, d-lactic acid and endotoxins. This could be the root cause of this metabolic damage. We need to build a diet and treatment protocol that fits in perfect harmony with nature's grand design of health and wellness.



The TRUTH about Stomach Acid!

Dysbiosis, Inflammation, Autoimmunity: Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Psoriasis, Sjogrens syndrome

Small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO, dysbiosis) causes Fibromyalgia (corrected version)

Alex Vasquez, D.C., N.D.
http://www.academia.edu/3862817/Nut...etal_Inflammation_and_Chronic_Health_Problems



Hypochlorhydria lack of stomach acid - can cause lots of problems
http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Hypochlorhydria_-_lack_of_stomach_acid_ _can_cause_lots_of_problems
Hypochlorhydria / Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achlorhydria
Salivary test for hypochlorhydria
http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Vascular_endothelial_growth_factor_(VEGF)-_salivary_test_for_hypochlorhydria
Helicobacter Pylori: Not Just A Third World Problem? http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/h-pylori/
Gastritis / Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastritis




Dr. Myhill, Hydrogen Sulfide

TOO MUCH CAN BE VERY TOXIC
In excess, H2S acts as a mitochondrial poison inhibiting many enzymes involved in oxidative phosphorylation [manufacture by the mitochondria of energy in the form of ATP]. It also interferes with oxygen transport in red blood cells, a little bit like carbon monoxide. Almost always we see low levels of glutathione in CFS, which is a sulfur containing molecule.

From an evolutionary perspective, mitochondria are organelles descended from ancient eukaryotic sulfur-using microbes, and so it is not surprising that H2S targets mitochondria. H2S inhibits immune cells such as CD8, T cells, and Natural Killer cells, so contributing to the immune dysfunction. It also impacts on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. It regulates the use of oxygen by mitochondria.

When gut bacteria or fungi are attacked by something like a heavy metal molecule (e.g. mercury), they have a special defense mechanism (called a "resistance gene") that produces Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) gas, which binds to the attacker and neutralizes it. Subsequently this highly toxic and poisonous H2S gas is created in the gut. H2S can impair the immunity system, especially in the area of neutrophil function, which is used to fight the original yeast in the gut, and hence one can hit a vicious cycle. H2S is very similar to mercury, in that it can bind to many of the things that mercury binds to and inactivate them. In other words, all the bad things that mercury can do, as described here, H2S can do. H2S can also convert the safer Inorganic mercury to the more dangerous Organic mercury, as described here. H2S has a very special circular relationship with the heavy metals; and therefore, it is a very special gas.

Fermentation in the gut and CFS
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Fermentation_in_the_gut_and_CFS
Multifocal Dysbiosis: Treatment With Nutritional and Botanical Interventions
http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/jun/vasquez.php

Mitochondria Cytochrome C Oxidase Connection

Inhibition
Sulfide, and carbon monoxide all bind to cytochrome c oxidase, thus competitively inhibiting the protein from functioning, which results in chemical asphyxiation of cells. Methanol in methylated spirits is converted into formic acid, which also inhibits the same oxidase system.

Cytochrome c oxidase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_c_oxidase

The myelin sheath is made of phospholipids whose synthesis depends on cytochrome c oxidase activity.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/copper/

Hydrogen sulfide activates ATP-sensitive potassium channels in smooth muscle cells. Researchers are not clear how the vessel-relaxing responsibilities are shared between nitric oxide and hydrogen sulfide.

Hydrogen sulfide wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide

Histotoxic hypoxia is the inability of cells to take up or utilize oxygen from the bloodstream, despite physiologically normal delivery of oxygen to such cells and tissues. Histotoxic hypoxia results from tissue poisoning, such as that caused by alcohol, narcotics, cyanide (which acts by inhibiting cytochrome oxidase), and certain other poisons like hydrogen sulfide.

Histotoxic hypoxia refers to a reduction in ATP production by the mitochondria due to a defect in the cellular usage of oxygen.There is a profound drop in tissue oxygen consumption since the reaction of oxygen with cytochrome c oxidase is blocked.

Histotoxic literally means that the cells have been poisoned. There is no problem getting the oxygen to the tissue - the lungs, blood and circulatory system are all working just fine. However, the tissue is unable to use the oxygen. Even though there is plenty of oxygen there, the cells experience a lack of oxygen and are affected as if there was too little/no oxygen available.

Histotoxic Hypoxia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histotoxic_hypoxia
Oxidative phosphorylation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_phosphorylation

RichVank,

"Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) has been getting more attention lately in connection with CFS."

"As I think many of you know, the methylation cycle and glutathione are both parts of the overall sulfur metabolism in the body, as is the production of H2S."

"The various reactions that can produce H2S in the body include parts of the
human metabolism, and also the metabolism of certain bacteria in the gut."

"The first place I heard about H2S in connection with CFS was from Dr. Amy Yasko, who emphasizes that people who have genetic polymorphisms in their cystathionine beta synthase (CBS) enzyme, along with a methylation cycle block, will tend to generate more H2S."

"I also heard about sulfur-related topics from Susan Owens, who runs the Yahoo sulfurstories group and the group about trouble with Epsom salts. On the latter topic, I have speculated that people who don't tolerate Epsom salts well may have sulfate-reducing bacteria (SRBs) in their gut, which convert sulfate to hydrogen sulfide. SRBs have been found in the gut in some people. As far as I know, the human metabolism does not have a pathway for chemically reducing sulfate, so I think the bacteria must be responsible for converting the sulfate to more chemically reduced species, such as H2S and eventually sulfite, and thus producing the sulfate intolerance in these people. Sulfate is the main form of sulfur normally excreted in the urine."

"In the human metabolism, the two enzymes of the transsulfuration pathway, i.e. cystathionine beta synthase (CBS) and cystathionine gamma lyase (CGL), akacystathionase, are capable of producing H2S from cysteine or homocysteine."

"In my 2008 revision of the Glutathione Depletion--Methylation Cycle Block hypothesis, described in the set of PowerPoint slides in the files section of the cfs-yasko group's website, I proposed that cysteine becomes oxidized to cystine inthe oxidative stress condition present in CFS, and that CGL then catalyzes a pathway starting with cystine that produces hydrogen sulfide and thiosulfate. I based this on research summarized by Martha Stipanuk, who has worked a lot in this area with rats."

"I just heard a few days ago from Prof. Ruma Banerjee, who is probably the leading researcher in the area involving the human sulfur metabolism and vitamin B12, that the human version of CGL does not use cystine as a substrate under normal conditions, which the rat version does. I'm not sure yet whether it would do so under oxidizing conditions, so this aspect of my hypothesis is stilla little "up in the air" at this point. It is clear from our clinical study (alsoin the files section of the cfs-yasko website) that the methylation cycle block in CFS is linked to glutathione depletion, so there has to be away to explain where the sulfur metabolites that are dumped down the transsulfuration pathway when there is a methylation cycle block actually go, since they don't go into making more glutathione. This aspect needs more research."

"Marian Lemle has proposed that hydrogen sulfide is involved in CFS. I had the privilege of meeting her at the Reno conference in March, where we both presented poster papers. She is also a friend of Prof. Dick Deth, who works primarily on autism, and who is very knowledgeable about the sulfur metabolism. Marian got her paper published in the journal Medical Hypotheses, and she also presented her hypothesis to the federal CFS Advisory Committee last October. Marian didn't get into the biochemistry of how H2S is produced (she is a science writer, not a scientist per se), but she noted that the symptoms of H2S poisoning are similar to those of CFS, and that was the basis for her hypothesis that H2S is involved in CFS. I thought this was interesting work, and I have interacted with her concerning how her work and mine might be connected."

"Dr. de Meirleir and his group have found that hydrogen sulfide is elevated in the urine in the most severely ill M.E. patients, and his company is now offering a qualitative urine test for H2S. His view seems to be that the H2S is being produced by bacteria in the gut in the severely ill patients, and I think he is probably right about that."

"I think that we will eventually be able to tie all of this together, but it will take some careful lab work to nail it down."

"Here are some speculations about what goes on: First, the sulfur in the human body originates in the diet (and supplements, if they are used). It comes in assulfur-containing amino acids (methionine, cysteine, cystine, and taurine), and also in the form of sulfate and a few other sulfur-containing species. The sulfur in whatever amount of H2S is produced, by either the human metabolism or the bacteria in the gut, must originate in the diet (and supplements) People who bathe in Epsom salts will absorb some sulfate through their skin."

"In a normal, healthy person, a lot of the sulfur-containing substances are digested in the gut and are absorbed into the blood, while some remain in the gut. Also, some are transported into the gut via the bile, from the liver."

"Bacteria in the gut therefore have access to some of it, and I think we are all familiar with the rotten egg smell that can be associated with flatus, which comes from hydrogen sulfide. So it is not unusual for bacteria in the gut to be producing hydrogen sulfide."

"It is quite common in CFS that there is dysfunction in the digestive system.This can include low stomach acid, slow gastric motility, insufficient secretion of pancreatic enzymes, insufficient secretion of bile, gluten or casein sensitivity,fructose or lactose intolerance, candidiasis, dysbiotic bacteria, intestinal permeability (leaky gut), a variety of other food sensitivities, secretory IgA deficiency, protozoal or helminthic parasites, and others."

"Under these circumstances, I think it is quite likely that less of the sulfur containing substances will be absorbed into the blood, and more will be metabolized by bacteria in the gut. The results would likely be less methionine available for the body's use (including for the methylation cycle), and more hydrogen sulfide produced by bacteria in the gut, which can be absorbed into the blood, have toxic effects on the cells of the body, and be excreted in the urine."

"As I noted in a recent post, some of the people who have not responded to the simplfied treatment approach for lifting the methylation cycle block appear to be low in methionine. If there is not enough methionine available, the methylation cycle will operate slowly, even if the partial block has been lifted, because there is not enough "cargo" to be carried around this cycle or to feed the transsulfuration pathway."

"I think this fits in well with what Dr. de Meirleir has reported. If sulfur-containing substances aren't being absorbed into the body, they would be available to feed the bacteria in the gut."

"I've also noted that in some of the most severely ill PWCs, the condition of the gut is so dysfunctional that they are not able to derive much nutrition from their food. Again, I think this is consistent."

"So what does this mean for treatment? I think it means that if a person is relatively well, the simplified treatment approach is likely to work. If their methionine is low, they may also need to supplement it, or to increase their protein intake in general, perhaps together with betaine HCl to augment stomach acid and digestive enzymes to help break down the protein in the gut, so that the amino acids can be absorbed."

"If a person is severely ill, so that the digestive system is no longer able to deliver much nutrition to their body, then I think it is likely that the hydrogen sulfide level in their urine will be elevated, as Dr. de Meirleir has reported, because the absorption of the sulfur-containing substances will be lowered. In these cases, it seems reasonable to suspect that many of the serious symptoms that are experienced are effects of hydrogen sulfide. Also in these cases, there may need to be intravenous feeding until the gut is in better condition, and the simplified treatment approach may not help until the gut is
in condition to absorb nutrients, and the methionine level is high enough that the methylation cycle is being fed with it."

"So how do we know where to draw the line between cases in which the simplified treatment will work, and cases that will require additional efforts? I think that measuring the methionine level in a urine amino acids test is one thing that can be done, and perhaps the H2S test being offered by Dr. de Meirleir's company would be another way to gauge this. This is all very new, so we don't have experience to go on yet, but I do think all of this will fit together."

Best regards,

Rich

Interview: Ian Lipkin’s Million Dollar Appeal for Microbiome Study
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/interview-ian-lipkin’s-million-dollar-appeal-for-microbiome-study.28139/

In CFS/ME, Professor De Meirleir treats diet first. Then he treats abnormal gut flora. He says it takes a year to recover gut function. http://cfstreatment.blogspot.com/2013/01/interview-with-dr-byron-hyde-and.html

 

[roxie60]

What a great loss to our community when Rich V left this world. What a gracious and knowledgeable man.

 

[Radio]

Testing Info

Comprehensive Stool Analysis PDF
http://www.gdx.net/core/interpretive-guides/CDSA-Combo-Interp-Guide.pdf

Clinical Applications of Urinary Organic Acids. Part 2. Dysbiosis Markers
http://altmedrev.com/publications/13/4/292.pdf

Hydrogen sulphide in urine test "Neurotoxic metabolite test" and can be ordered online directly from Protea Biopharma in Belgium.

 

[Radio]

Dysbiosis info


Dysbiosis and Multifocal Dysbiosis: Treatment With Nutritional and Botanical Interventions http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/jun/vasquez.php
A Bowel Flora Protocol for Dysbiosis Management
http://www.mediherb.com/pdf/6041.pdf
The gut flora as a forgotten organ
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1500832/
Rethinking-Probiotics
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/rethinking-probiotics.24643/
H2S, Fiber and the Gut
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.life-extension/GVFPy8jiC8E
Resistant starch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch
The Resistant Starch Challenge
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ge-is-it-the-key-weve-been-looking-for.26976/
Intestinal Dysbiosis PDF <---Good info
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http://www.becomehealthynow.com/mira2_front/attachment.php?attachmentid=57&ei=HFsXU-DqMKONygHXr4DAAw&usg=AFQjCNEGQ3cXY3T5mCddZ9P3lQyi2a_7Hw&sig2=Ui9BTaI-xEAuS9d0KkhsoQ&bvm=bv.62286460,d.aWc

 

[Radio]

7 Causes of Low Stomach Acid-

Low Stomach Acid Affects On Health

H.Pylori

Dr-Ettingers-Biofilm-Protocol-For-Lyme-and-Gut-Pathogens
http://www.advancedhealing.com/dr-ettingers-biofilm-protocol-for-lyme-and-gut-pathogens/

See more about H-pylori info at, http://www.mygutsy.com/is-h-pylori-...sorders-adrenal-fatigue/#sthash.1KzwEYym.dpuf

 

[Radio]

Gastritis, Acid Reflux, Helicobacter Pylori, Cholesterol Myth

The high price of antibiotic use: can our guts ever fully recover?
http://chriskresser.com/the-high-price-of-antibiotic-use-can-our-guts-ever-fully-recover

 

[Radio]

The Silent Liver Damage

H-pylori infection can dramatically reduce stomach acid production. Hydrochloric acid insufficiency could be the main contributing factor to the bacteria over-growth we are seeing. It also could be the underlying cause of the acquired mitochondria damage. I believe we have a genetic factors as well as environmental issues that make us vulnerable to this illness.

The next main issue is the weak liver detoxification and genetic variation genotypes, combined with methylation block and and other chronic deficiencies. The mitochondria can function normally and make all the ATP we need, until a large percentage gets damaged. Now all we needs is a trigger; lyme, viral, mold, toxic exposure or even physical exertion. The elephants in the room are H-pylori, HCL insufficiency, unidentified dysbiosis, and weak liver detoxification. Different organs may get damaged as well in this metabolic dysfunction. The liver damage could be a factor in the hypoglycemia, glycogen storage issues. The hydrochloric acid insufficiency could be related to this silent liver damage.

The Silent Liver Damage
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...man-health-pathways-to-modern-diseases.28937/




The Keys To My Recovery

1. Functional Medicine Practitioner (Laboratory Testing / Protocol Support)

2. Modified Paleo Diet + (Glycogen Supportive Foods) + (Beneficial Fermented Substrates)

3. Balance gut organisms (H-pylori / Dysbiosis Support) + (Digestive Aid)

4. Mitochondria Support (Lipid Replacement Therapy) + (CoQ-10 Ubiquinol / Vitamin E Support)

5. Methylation / Mineral Support (Fred Davis' protocol) + (SAMe / Vitamin D Support)

6. Liver Detoxification / PST Sulfation / Sulfate Support) + (Comprehensive Liver Testing)

7. Spiritual Support



Limit Vitamin P5P <=== Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate inhibits the PST (phenol sulphur-transferase) activity. P5P is not water soluble and can build up in the body damaging the peripheral nervous system.

The PST sulfation pathway is necessary for the breakdown and removal of certain toxins in the body. This includes the processing of a type of chemical called a phenol. If the Sulfation pathway is not functioning well, a person may not be able to process out the phenolic compounds as fast as they consume them. One of the main reasons for low functioning PST is low sulfate in the body. Sulfate is essential to keep PST functioning. Sulfate is also necessary in maintaing the integrity of the intestinal lining.

Low sulfate levels = increased intestinal permeability (leaky gut).

Low sulfate can occur for a variety of reasons. Some gut infections bacteria / yeast can produce large amounts of phenols, which may overload the PST enzyme.




Lipid Replacement Therapy
I found the NT Factor® Energy Lipids Powder worked the best for me. (Dose: 1 scoop powder 2-4xday). I like Now foods Super Enzymes for digestive aid support on a empty stomach with the NT Factor support. I supplemented with the lipids for 2 months and recovered soon after combined with the keys to my recovery I have outlined in this thread. I plan on utilizing lipid replacement therapy for the rest of my life.

Nutricology-Energylipids-Powder-150-Gram
http://www.amazon.com/Nutricology-E...1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1394736221&sr=8-2&keywords=NT Factor® Energy Lipids Powder




Tryptophan / NAD+ Deficiency
Viruses and mineral depletion (HCL insufficiency) can also affect the NAD Synthesis. My main concern is the NADH recycling anaerobic metabolism (ADP to ATP) imbalance. This is the reason why it's import to supplement to bypass the depleted NAD+ synthesis. Tryptophan, Nicotinamide, NAD, NADH, R- lipoic acid can help compensate for the NAD+ deficiency.



Transmethylation is the most important methyl group donor. We need methionine and SAMe to make phospholipids to maintain mitochondrial cell integrity. The HCL insufficiency can also cause intercellular mineral deficiencies. I recommend the toxic urine metals test from Doctor's Data. Also, it is essential that all amalgam fillings be removed by a qualified holistic dentist. http://www.canarys-eye-view.org/supplements/sammy.html



H-pylori / DysbiosisTreatment Info

See more about H-pylori info at, http://www.mygutsy.com/is-h-pylori-...sorders-adrenal-fatigue/#sthash.1KzwEYym.dpuf
Dysbiosis and Multifocal Dysbiosis: Treatment With Nutritional and Botanical Interventions http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/jun/vasquez.php




Key Links

Alex Vasquez, D.C., N.D.http://www.academia.edu/3862817/Nut...etal_Inflammation_and_Chronic_Health_Problems
The 4R Gut Healing Program
http://eastwesthealing.com/the-4r-gut-healing-program/
Reverse-Mitochondrial-Damage-101
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/reverse-mitochondrial-damage-101.28175/
Active B12 therapy and methylation FAQ
http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/
Foods high in sulfur (thiols) / Perfect Health Diet
http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list
The low histamine chef diet
http://thelowhistaminechef.com/

The PST sulfation pathway
http://www.blants.com.au/autism.html
What You Should Know – Facts About Methylation, Sulfation and Oxidative Stress http://blogs.kirkmanlabs.com/blog/2...t-methylation-sulfation-and-oxidative-stress/
CFS-and-impaired-sulphur-metabolism
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/cfs-and-impaired-sulphur-metabolism.2930/



Multivitamin
I have found a hypoallergenic multivitamin supplement with active B's in a low enough dose that should not cause a problem. Encapsulations, O.N.E Multivitamin http://www.iherb.com/Pure-Encapsula...min-With-Metafolin-L-5-MTHF-60-Capsules/52461%

How to figure out your Betaine HCL dose
Each person will have a specific supplementary HCL dosage. Unfortunately, there isn’t a special formula I can give you to figure it out. This is a case of trial and error until you get to the correct dosage. Failing to get to your correct dosage can remove the benefits of supplementing.

You must find the right dosage for you situation. If you fail to do the trial and error you’re wasting your time and money.

This is a very common problem we see with our readers. Remember, the stomach is purposely built to handle extreme acid environments. If your correct dosage is 2400mg and you’re only taking 1200mg, you’re not really doing your stomach any favors. You must follow the process below to figure it out the right dosage to get the maximum benefit.

1. Eat a meal that contains at least 15-20grams of protein (about 4-6ounces of meat).
2. Start by taking 1 pill (650mg of less) of Betaine HCL during the beginning of the meal
3. Finish the meal as normal and observe your body for any changes in feeling associated with the stomach and belly button area. Things to look for: heaviness, hotness, burning, or other GI distress.
4. Stay at this dosage of 1 pill for another day of meals with protein and if you don’t notice anything on the 3rd day, try 2 pills.
5. Stay there for another day and then try 3 pills.
6. Keep increasing the number of pills taken with each meal until you notice some GI discomfort described in step #3.
7. When this happens, you will know your ideal Betaine HCL dosage is 1 pill less. For example, if you felt the discomfort going from 5 pills to 6 pills, then 5 pills is your proper dosage for a normal meal.

A couple points to clarify:
- If you eat a snack or a meal without much protein, you won’t need as much Betaine HCL (for a small snack like a piece of fruit you won’t need any at all)

- When you experience the GI discomfort finding your correct dosage, you can mix ½ teaspoon of baking soda in 8oz of water and drink it to help lessen the pain.

- Dr. Wright notes in his book that “paradoxically adverse symptoms are most likely to occur in individuals with the lowest levels of stomach acid. This is because these people are most likely to have atrophic gastritis (a thinned-out stomach lining), which makes them much more sensitive to even small quantities of HCL than a normal, thicker stomach lining.” This makes sense because a super inflamed stomach lining won’t have its normal protective barrier intact to contain the strong acids. In this case, it is wise to start with digestive bitters or get smaller dose Betaine HCL pills (think 350mg or less).

- If you have low stomach acid and you can’t supplement with Betaine HCL, there’s a few natural methods to help with symptoms. Start by taking a shot of lemon juice or vinegar before a meal to help the symptoms of indigestion. But know that these don’t actually help the digestion of food only the symptoms. A supplement that can help the digestion is digestive bitters.

I Need to Take How Many Betaine HCL Pills?
It’s very common for people to stop short of their needed Betaine HCL dosage. In fact, in the beginning I was nervous about taking 6 pills at a meal. But trust me. there is nothing to worry about. Dr. Wright reports that the common Betaine HCL dosage range in his clinical practice is 3,250-4,550mg per meal. That means there are also plenty of people who need above 5,000mg for an effective dosage.

Remember a normal functioning stomach is capable of producing and handling extreme acid ranges. If your dosage starts getting extremely high without any GI distress (step #3), you must use your GI symptoms as a guide instead. These including burping, bloating, farting, and stool consistency. Keep everything else the same in your diet as you wait for these indicators to change for the better. Just because you can take 20 pills, doesn’t mean you should. It could be that at 11 pills all of your problems disappear. For this group of people try to find the minimum dose needed to help your GI symptoms and for peat sakes go get more testing to figure out what is going on!

Best Betaine HCL Supplement brands
When choosing a Betaine HCL supplement it’s important to choose one that includes pepsin. It’s assumed by the medical research that when supplementing with HCL you need to supplement with pepsin. That is why most Betaine HCL supplements you’ll find include it and Dr. Wright recommends it.

I also try to look for a brand that has a minimal amount of additives in the pills. I like the following brands (which are all SCD legal):

- See more at: http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/how-to-supplement-with-betaine-hcl-for-low-stomach-acid/

4 Common Betaine HCl Mistakes
http://scdlifestyle.com/2013/10/4-common-betaine-hcl-mistakes/



Disclaimer
The information on this thread is not intended to be medical advice. The information is meant to inspire and motivate you to make your own decisions surrounding your health care and dietary needs. It is intended for educational and informational purposes only. You should not rely upon any information found on this thread to determine dietary changes, a medical diagnosis or course of treatment. Readers should perform their own research and make decisions in partnership with their own health care providers.

 

[Aerose91]

I cant believe no one has commented on this, its a wealth of great info, thank you.

A few diet questions tho- ive always eaten very well but obviously my gut is out of whack. My base food is home made bone broth, himilayan pink salt and home made coconut kefir. How did you figure out which fermented foods to eat, and moreso, how do you know when your gut is healed well enough to take it to the next step? I feel like theres something wrong here that prevents our gut from being able to heal.

 

[Radio]

I cant believe no one has commented on this, its a wealth of great info, thank you.

A few diet questions tho- ive always eaten very well but obviously my gut is out of whack. My base food is home made bone broth, himilayan pink salt and home made coconut kefir. How did you figure out which fermented foods to eat, and moreso, how do you know when your gut is healed well enough to take it to the next step? I feel like theres something wrong here that prevents our gut from being able to heal.

Hey Aerose,

We need to test and treat the core problems first, before the gut can heal and fermented foods can have the most beneficial effect.

1. Eradicate and inhibit H-pylori infection

2. Dysbiosis Protocol

3. Hypochlorhydria (HCL insufficiency) Digestive Aid Support

4. Liver Detoxification Support



See more about H-pylori info at, http://www.mygutsy.com/is-h-pylori-...sorders-adrenal-fatigue/#sthash.1KzwEYym.dpuf
Dysbiosis and Multifocal Dysbiosis: Treatment With Nutritional and Botanical Interventions http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/jun/vasquez.php

H2S, Fiber and the Gut
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.life-extension/GVFPy8jiC8E
Rethinking-Probiotics
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/rethinking-probiotics.24643/
Resistant starch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch
The Resistant Starch Challenge
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ge-is-it-the-key-weve-been-looking-for.26976/

Find A Functional Medicine Practitioner
https://www.functionalmedicine.org/practitioner_search.aspx?id=117

 

[Radio]

Dysbiosis Links and Research


Bacterial, Fungal & Parasitic Overgrowth
http://www.medicalinsider.com/bacterial.html

Increased D-Lactic Acid Intestinal Bacteriain Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://www.cfids-cab.org/rc/Sheedy.pdf

d-Lactate in Human and Ruminant Metabolism
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/7/1619.full

Hydrogen sulfide theory and gut dysbiosis:http://phoenixrising.me/wp-content/uploads/H2S1.pdf



Great Book: Fibromyalgia in a Nutshell: A Safe and Effective Functional Medicine Strategy.

A complex condition deciphered based on published (and often overlooked) research—the hope for cure for millions of people who have suffered far too long! Summarizing research presented in Europe in March 2012, "Fibromyalgia in a Nutshell" is an updated excerpt from two of Dr Vasquez's recent books for doctors: "Migraine Headaches, Hypothyroidism, and Fibromyalgia" and "Integrative Orthopedics—Third Edition." This edition of the information has been completely reviewed and revised for easier reading by the general public; doctors and patients alike will find this information clinically accurate as well as therapeutically applicable for daily use.

You can find this book at Amazon.com...
Fibromyalgia in a Nutshell: A Safe and Effective Functional Medicine Strategy

 

[Aerose91]

Hey Aerose,

We need to test and treat the core problems first, before the gut can heal and fermented foods can have the most beneficial effect.

1. Eradicate and inhibit H-pylori infection
2. Hypochlorhydria Digestive Aid Support
3. Dysbiosis Protocol



See more about H-pylori info at, http://www.mygutsy.com/is-h-pylori-...sorders-adrenal-fatigue/#sthash.1KzwEYym.dpuf
Dysbiosis and Multifocal Dysbiosis: Treatment With Nutritional and Botanical Interventions http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/jun/vasquez.php

Rethinking-Probiotics
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/rethinking-probiotics.24643/
Resistant starch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch
The Resistant Starch Challenge
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ge-is-it-the-key-weve-been-looking-for.26976/

Find A Functional Medicine Practitioner
https://www.functionalmedicine.org/practitioner_search.aspx?id=117

Thanks for all these links.

What im struggling with is that ive been doing basically all of this for years before even getting M.E., i dont really know what more i can do.

I havent had extensive tests done in these per se, but i have had my digestion of nutrients checked and my protein was horrible. I was already taking HCL but im increasing it now to compensate. im holding some hope that the increased HCL will provide some benefit. I do have an.integrative doctor im working with (on top of having an ME doctor) to try and nail down the odd things so maybe some more tests are needed.

 

[xrunner]

I cant believe no one has commented on this, its a wealth of great info, thank you.
A few diet questions tho- ive always eaten very well but obviously my gut is out of whack. My base food is home made bone broth, himilayan pink salt and home made coconut kefir. How did you figure out which fermented foods to eat, and moreso, how do you know when your gut is healed well enough to take it to the next step? I feel like theres something wrong here that prevents our gut from being able to heal.

Regarding the gut and the next step, here's a possibility. I never had particular problems with my gut except in the first few weeks of my illness, but my mum had for years despite trying many treatments and remedies. What worked for her was systematic treatment for harmful bacteria, viruses and parasites, this in spite of negative tests.

 

[Aerose91]

Regarding the gut and the next step, here's a possibility. I never had particular problems with my gut except in the first few weeks of my illness, but my mum had for years despite trying many treatments and remedies. What worked for her was systematic treatment for harmful bacteria, viruses and parasites, this in spite of negative tests.

What did those treatments involve? I just had a candida test but thats it, if it comes back positive i will start treatment

 

[Martial]

Great article! It covers all the necessary big steps for the most fundamental healing, this should be a huge part of everyone's recovery process for sure!

 

[xrunner]

What did those treatments involve? I just had a candida test but thats it, if it comes back positive i will start treatment

goldenseal plus cryptolepsis, kib 500, ivermectin (not at the same time) and cat's claw whilst in parallel drinking regularly green tea with honey (pubmed has references on the action of these two on microbes and fungi)

 

[Aerose91]

So the past two days ive been upping my HCL to find the correct dosage. im up to 5 pills/meal with no stomach problems or aches yet. However, the past two days my sleep has been terrible- tossing and turning all night, never sleeping more than 20 minutes at a clip, increased psychosis (im ususally flirting with psychosis 24/7 anyway but this dropped me right back into it, especially at night) and much, much increased brain fog.

Can this be a methylation thing? What could cause that? Im going to cut back on the HCL to 2/meal for a couple days though and see if it helps.

 

[Radio]

So the past two days ive been upping my HCL to find the correct dosage. im up to 5 pills/meal with no stomach problems or aches yet. However, the past two days my sleep has been terrible- tossing and turning all night, never sleeping more than 20 minutes at a clip, increased psychosis (im ususally flirting with psychosis 24/7 anyway but this dropped me right back into it, especially at night) and much, much increased brain fog.

Can this be a methylation thing? What could cause that? Im going to cut back on the HCL to 2/meal for a couple days though and see if it helps.

Yes, HCL Betaine is a methyl donor. It's possible you could have the COMT +/+ problem?

I feel we need to treat H-pylori / Dysbiosis first and address diet before high dose HCL therapy can have the most therapeutic value.

Also, some people use bitters or lemon juice or even apple cider vinegar for digestive support. If lemon juice is used, it's important to use a drinking straw and to flush the teeth with water.

Betaine is a metabolite of choline, and is also known as trimethylglycine or TMG. Betaine hcl works by donating methyl (CH3) groups. This nutrient has the ability to convert homocysteine to methionine. Betaine hydrochloride means it is in combination with hydrochloric acid. Intake from foods is estimated at 0.5 to 2 grams a day.
A methyl donor is simply any substance that can transfer a methyl group, a carbon atom attached to three hydrogen atoms, to another substance. Many important biochemical processes rely on methylation, including the metabolism of lipids, neurotransmitters, and DNA. Scientists suspect that adequate methylation of DNA can prevent the expression of harmful genes, such as cancer genes. It’s quite likely that our body’s ability to methylate declines with age, potentially contributing to the aging process, and therefore supplementation is an interesting potential in terms of health benefits.

http://www.raysahelian.com/betaine.html

 

[Aerose91]

Im not sure what the problem may be, ive never had a genetic test but my doctor may do it.

I already do the apple cider vinaegar and lemon juice to aid in digestion, im really not sure what more i can be doing to help dysbiosis since ive been basically on GAPS and paleo for several years now.

 

[Radio]

Im not sure what the problem may be, ive never had a genetic test but my doctor may do it.

I already do the apple cider vinaegar and lemon juice to aid in digestion, im really not sure what more i can be doing to help dysbiosis since ive been basically on GAPS and paleo for several years now.

Take a look at these protocol....

Oregano oil in an emulsified, time-released tablet:

Botanical oils that are not emulsified do not attain maximal dispersion in the gastrointestinal tract; products that are not time-released might be absorbed before reaching the colon in sufficient concentrations. Emulsified oil of oregano in a time-released tablet is proven effective in the eradication of harmful gastrointestinal microbes, including Blastocystis hominis, Entamoeba hartmanni, and Endolimax nana.18 An in vitro study19 and clinical experience support the use of emulsified oregano against Candida albicans. The common dose is 600 mg per day in divided doses (e.g., 150 mg four times per day) for at least six weeks.

Dysbiosis and Multifocal Dysbiosis: Treatment With Nutritional and Botanical Interventions http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/jun/vasquez.php

See more about H-pylori info at, http://www.mygutsy.com/is-h-pylori-...sorders-adrenal-fatigue/#sthash.1KzwEYym.dpuf


Biotics-Research-Emulsified-Oregano-Tablets
http://www.amazon.com/Biotics-Research-Emulsified-Oregano-Tablets/dp/B00CQ7OQPA/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1394738098&sr=1-2&keywords=Biotics Research - ADP with Emulsified Oil of Oregano

 

[Aerose91]

Thx radio