NICE advice - Be Pushy with your G.P.

[golden]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/n...ut-treatment-and-drugs-says-health-chief.html

Adopt an American Attitude and be very assertive with your G.P. says NICE to patients to get the treatments and drugs you want.

I wish I could!!!

" Professor David Haslam, chairman of the National Institute of Health and Care Excellence (NICE), said British patients should become more assertive and see themselves as “equal partners” with their doctors, with legal rights."

 

[Snowdrop]

Whoa! Seriously. Has anybody informed the Dr.'s of this new relationship?

 

[taniaaust1]

umm crazy that they expect very sick patients to have to get pushy with their GPs. Have they instead thought about "educating" the GPs to listen better to patients.

The above is the attitude Ive decided recently to take with disability services etc.

 

[golden]

Whoa! Seriously. Has anybody informed the Dr.'s of this new relationship?

Ha ha I think that will have happened over the breakfast table, this morning! I bet there have been quite a few disgruntled doctor faces :0

 

[golden]

umm crazy that they expect very sick patients to have to get pushy with their GPs. Have they instead thought about "educating" the GPs to listen better to patients.

The above is the attitude Ive decided recently to take with disability services etc.

Thats my preferred method - to say something quietly, once, and be heard.

Listening skills require the listener to be free from thought and judgements which does take training.

And the additional burden of severe illness and neurological problems does make the complexities of conversation very difficult.

Its like talking in a blizzard of Doctor ignorance currently with no hope for me.

I expect what patients and ordinary folk know to be 'assertive' will be labelled as 'demanding' , 'vexatious', 'aggressive' unjustly.

I am going to let the first few new assertive waves of patients go first (he, hee) - and then i may give it a go!

I am suprised at myself actually as the NICE advice does actually make me feel a little supported!

 

[Firestormm]

Assertive is good. Can take a lot of work to get it right and it doesn't mean you'll get the outcome you want of course. And for people who are sick, being assertive can be hard. Can be hard for people who aren't sick as well - people who lack confidence for example or who are overly confident.

 

[xchocoholic]

This doctor welcomed assertive patients. Not sure how many doctors in America actually appreciate this

 

[Rand56]

I agree. You have to be pushy/assertive. Atleast the doc gets the impression that you're not a "pushover" in his/her eyes. I'll add too, to try to be as well informed as you can and most of you, if not all, no doubt are.

This situation is not in regards to me, as I have literally not seen a doctor in decades as a patient, but it has to do with my mom who has dementia which requires me to be with her on the GP appt.

He put her on that shit drug Lipitor, and then like many others, got some bad side effects which made me research more about that shit drug myself. I learned enough that I wanted to demand of her doc to get her off of it. He didn't go down without a fight which I totally expected. Bottom line I got him to get her off of it and I felt good about "pushing" enough to get that done.

 

[golden]

sorry to read about your Mum Rand56. but i totally agree about researching all meds. thoroughly.

 

[golden]

I haven't seen much written on the subject. There is a chapter called 'How to Manipulate your Doctor to get what you need' in a book called 'How to Stop your Doctor Killing you'. (still not got round to buying it but sounds useful).

Whilst i dislike the word 'manipulate', i dislike more being bullied by my doctor and so am going to try and learn these new skills just like one does when applying for a job for example .

My neighbour gets what she wants from her G.P. by playing a shy naughty school girl role.

she is in her 60s and was on benefits for decades and so long as she did this and acted subservient , he kept the benefits letters coming.

The thing is, I am pretty certain her thyroid issues could have been sorted.

There is also the contrary doctor which i bet won't respond to the assertive patient. Reverse psychology required.

When this approach will backfire, is when the thing being sort after is not in our best interests.

A doctor was bullied by patients Mother for stopping allergy shots due to dangerous side effects - and he was forced to resume them.

Patients forcing Doctors for antibiotics too.

It is a fine balance.

 

[Snowdrop]

Some thoughts on what assertive is and how to use it:

http://revelle.ucsd.edu/res-life/life-skills/assertiveness.html

 

[golden]

Thanks Snowdrop.

I think what I was getting at was the Doctor Patient relationship is very warped imo.

The usual assertive skills may not be enough due to the whole set up. Which is why assertive, intelligent professionals end up in tears for example.

 

[Snowdrop]

Yes, all kinds of people turn out to be Dr's. All bringing their own baggage to the subject of chronic illness.
I've moved many times to different places over the years. Every time we came to a new place I'd wait a bit and ask for a referral from someone I met and liked (almost inevitably they'd be a nurse ~ which doesn't necessarily give them better judgement but it just so happened that way)

I have always felt that my various Dr's were good people who wanted genuinely to help and they would listen to me.
There is definitely better and worse ways of approaching Dr's when you are this kind of ill.

It's a learning curve for both parties and I feel that my mistake in the past was to expect immediate understanding of my condition.
If there is anything I would say to someone new to this illness that wanted to go to their Dr. and discuss it, it would be to say:
be patient and let the information sink in, it's probably new to them. Don't force it. Let the relationship develop. Let them see YOU.

We can probably come across badly because we are desperate. So we will be misunderstood.

It is tiring to have this additional learning as to how to interact with our Dr.
Too bad we can't bring a professional advocate with us who knows how to do this. That would be brilliant.
We can't really afford the time and yet what we need to do is be patient.

 

[golden]

It all makes perfect sense in theory lol

They are not trained to see 'you' .

With M.E. one cannot pop in and out of Doctors appointments weekly until they see sense.

By the time one arrives at an appointment one is no longer oneself anyway .... pots/oi , electrical sensitivity light sensitivity.

My Doctor forced a patient to take off her sunglasses which were helping her cope with the surgeries bright light.

But, Patients are the bottom of the heap!

Probably what would help is to add into the equation the Medical system.

Doctors bully Nurses
Nurses bully Nurses (Lateral violence)
Managers bully Nurses
Nurses bully New Doctors

And then at the bottom is patients.

http://www.nursingworld.org/Mobile/Nursing-Factsheets/lateral-violence-and-bullying-in-nursing.html

 

[ukxmrv]

Prof Haslam isn't talking about being assertive with GP's to get better care or drugs that would be useful to us. He's talking about (if the Telegraph has reported him correctly) getting NICE guidelines recognised by doctors and the treatments in them only being the basis for these "rights"...

So, help from him for PWME in the UK as the NICE guidelines are part of the problem.

 

[roxie60]

tania... my thoughts exactly, how in the heck can people who are sick (very), have memory problems, barely able to have the energy to attend a dr's appointment and frequently have to write down what they want to discuss be expected to be 'pushy'. Are you kidding me, once again the sick patient is expected to do things that they should not be required to do to get diagnosis and treatment that is useful to their situation. The only real time people can get pushy is when they recover enough to stand up for those who are too sick against a system that is broken and demand change. Get pushy when one is well, dont forget what you and others have gone through. Our medical system has become just another political system run by political doctors who cant succeed as just doctors and insurance companies. I use to think there was just a special place in hell for lawyers and bankers but now I think they will need to make space for incompetent doctors and fraudulent insurance companies.

 

[Valentijn]

I don't think I'd call it "pushy", but it certainly helps to be persistent. If lack of proper treatment from your GP means that you stay home instead of going to your GP for problems that need solving, then the GP is getting the wrong message. Whereas if you go in when you have health issues which they can and should treat, and don't let them blow you off, they're going to look for solutions - such as referrals to the relevant specialists, and sensible testing.

 

[MeSci]

I have often had to bite my tongue when doctors tell me stuff I already know, thus effectively wasting our time so that there isn't time to get round to other stuff that needs addressing, but I have to act as though I am grateful and impressed with 'their' superior knowledge.

I recall asking for a drug, being sent for numerous irrelevant, expensive, inconvenient and frustrating appointments, for six months, while desperately needing the drug, and then the doc announcing that HE had decided to put me on this drug, clearly having forgotten that I had asked for it six months previously!