Imipramine and Paroxetine

[Beyond]

How bad are these? My parents are finally firm in the allopathy and the GP prescribed me these. I tried to convince him that I would only take Imipramine but he couldn´t listen to me. I am especially wary of the SSRI. It seems I´ll have to take them at least for 15 days. My hypericum extract is almost here but they say no. I wanted to try that first... I don´t know what I will do. I have read many testimonies against paroxetine in the net.

 

[adreno]

Imipramine probably isn't that bad in small doses, say 10mg. Paroxetine is a pretty horrible SSRI though, others are better. What's the prescription for? Depression? Anxiety? Fatigue?

 

[Sidereal]

Paroxetine tends to be the least tolerated SSRI. It has a very short half life so very difficult to discontinue. Can be very effective for OCD though.

 

[Undisclosed]

I was prescribed Imipramine ages ago for sleep -- low doses gave me terrible dry mouth and did nothing for my sleep. That being said, reactions can be quite unpredictable as they vary over individuals.

I have also read where Paroxetine isn't well tolerated. If you do take it, a slow taper off them when you are finished might be prudent.

Why are you being prescribed these meds?

 

[Hip]

I had a terrible reaction to the SSRI citalopram: it created intense suicidal ideation within an hour of taking one pill, and this horrible state lasted for the entire day, until this drug wore off. Suicidal ideation reactions are a known side effect of SSRIs in a small minority of people.

Interestingly, I had taken citalopram once before, just prior to my ME/CFS, and at that time I did not experience this bad side effect.

Imipramine used to be my favorite antidepressant for several years, but I did not take this drug on a regular basis. If I felt my depression levels increasing, I would then start taking 10 to 25 mg of imipramine each day for a week or so. But as my depression comes and goes, I tended to stop taking imipramine once I feel better. I found imipramine works quite well when used like this on this temporary basis.

My favorite antidepressant now is very low dose (12.5 to 25 mg) amisulpride. This drug I find provides such a clean, natural mood boost, that I decided to take it all the time. For me, a clean, natural mood boost is very important. With imipramine, I found that the mood boost does help you overcome depression, but imipramine did not feel entirely natural.

It is hard to describe what I mean by a "natural" mood boost, but an analogy might be the difference between a true spontaneous smile, which is natural, and a "social smile" that you deliberately put on yourself as a social requirement. To me, the antidepressant effect of very low dose amisulpride feels like a true spontaneous smile, whereas the antidepressant effect of imipramine feels a bit like an artificial social smile. That not a precise analogy, but hopefully it gives you an idea of what I am talking about.

Spanish saffron 60 mg daily is also a very useful antidepressant with a natural feeling. There are studies showing that saffron has similar antidepressant efficacy to the SSRI Prozac. Saffron works on the serotonin system. I regularly take 60 mg of Spanish saffron stamens daily, along with 12.5 g of amisulpride.

 

[barbc56]

How bad are these? My parents are finally firm in the allopathy and the GP prescribed me these. I tried to convince him that I would only take Imipramine but he couldn´t listen to me. I am especially wary of the SSRI. It seems I´ll have to take them at least for 15 days. My hypericum extract is almost here but they say no. I wanted to try that first... I don´t know what I will do. I have read many testimonies against paroxetine in the net.

If you are uncomfortable with the meds.prescribed, you might want to ask about other AD' options available for pain.

 

[Beyond]

Imipramine probably isn't that bad in small doses, say 10mg. Paroxetine is a pretty horrible SSRI though, others are better. What's the prescription for? Depression? Anxiety? Fatigue?

I managed to fight my parents until Paroxetine was out of the question. In fact I am now just taking CLOMIPRAMINE. The doc told me Imipramine but ended prescribing me Tofranil. It is for "OCD". He acts like I have a somatoform disorder, the usual shit, but this time the shit has splattered me, because I am taking this clomipramine (forced) and I feel worse as I was expecting.

Why are you being prescribed these meds?

Because of a stupid and dangerous doctor that gets tense when I say "hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis". He says its all an "obsession". My parents are eager to buy that crap.

@Hip Amisulpride eh? I want to try that. In fact, talking about natural alternatives, I received yesterday two bottles of high quality Hypericum but my parents hid it. Bad timing. I am pushing hard for them to let me try Hypericum and drop these awful drugs. I hate psych drugs.

 

[Hip]

@Beyond
You certainly do seem to be having more than your fair share of problems from family members.

Note that Tofranil is just a brand name for the drug imipramine.

This info might be useful:

Very low dose tricyclic antidepressants (TCA). Low doses (10 to 25 mg daily) of tricyclic antidepressants (TCA) such as amitriptyline or imipramine can be particularly helpful for ME/CFS. TCA antidepressants not only provide a mood-boosting for ME/CFS patients, they also are known to increase energy levels (though low doses are stipulated, as higher doses are usually found too stimulating for ME/CFS patients).1 2 TCAs can reduce vitamin B2 levels, so taking vitamin B2 with TCAs is beneficial, and may improve the effects of these antidepressants.1

It is certainly worth trying these drugs, because you may well find them beneficial. But I can totally understand how you dislike these things being "forced down your throat" by a persuasive doctor/parents. I myself only feel comfortable about trying supplements or drugs under my own terms, in my own timescale, so that I can do the testing carefully and gently.

I would recommend you keep a diary/journal of your results: in a word processor document, you just need to write down the date and time, the drug/supplement, and the dose taken. Then note any good or bad reactions that you have to that medication in the subsequent days. These notes can be very useful at a later date, as most people with ME/CFS have bad memories, so they may forget what effects a medication has for them.

 

[Beyond]

Talking about brain fog, I messed up the name of the drug. It is ANAFRANIL, which is Clomipramine, a close relative of Imipramine.

 

[Beyond]

@Hip doesn´t amisulpride increase prolactin? I have had high prolactin and still have some libido issues. I want to try this med but I wonder if it can decrease my sexual function.

An interesting quote I found investigating amisulpride:

Sooooo, why could anyone possible want amisulpridefor their anxiety disorder? Because it has many interesting effects and qualities:
1st. It spectacularly rises GHB receptors (upregulates) and also binds to them (activates), which of course will equally rise GHB activity, which, by all acounts IS VERY VERY EUPHORIC (also, this is a fact, and not up to discussion).

2nd.At low doses (50mg~200mg) Amisulpridewill actually cause dopaminergic neurons (nerve cells which predominantly communicate using dopamine as their main neurotransmitter) TO RELEASE MORE DOPAMINE. Why? Because at those doses it binds to the pre-synaptic receptors. Not following? Simplest terms I said: A synapsis is where two neurons reach each other (an axon and a dendrite). The neuron sending the message has a vesicle (basically a bag full of chemicals or neurotransmitters) from where it releases dopamine. But it also has, some distance away, autoreceptors, which are places the dopamine may bind. Why these? Because when the dopamine reaches, and binds to the autoreceptor, it means it's time to stop releasing dopamine from the vesicle. The neuron says: "That's enough, cut the flow." Well, at the doses I pointed, amisulprideblocks those autoreceptors, so dopamine keeps flowing longer, as the neuron can't know how much is enough. Given this fact, Amisulpridecan be a formidable antidepressant, and will likely lift any depression when other meds fail.

3rd.Amisulprideis an atypical antipsychotic, which means, among a few other things, that it causes far less side-effects (extrapyramidal symptoms). Also, they are what we psychiatrists call a "clean drug". That is: when we have a stable an non delusional or hallucinating schizophrenic patient (those are "positive symptoms", whereas a negative symptom would blunted affect) we want to hit the dopamine receptors. But a "dirty drug", like older or typical antipsychotics, would hit several, even unrelated ones. Like chlorpromazine, commercially and popularly known as Thorazine, the very first antipsychotic. That bad boy will antagonize (block) dopamine receptors (D1, D2, D3 and D4), but it will also hit A LOT of other neurotransmitters, to name a few: histaminic (receptors H1 and H2), serotonin (receptors 5-HT1 and 5-HT2), acetylcholine (Muscarinic receptors M1 and M2). Amisulprideonly hits Dopamine (D1 and D2), antagonizing or agonizing depending on what the prescribing doctor wants to achieve. It also hits 5-HT7 (serotonin) receptors with more antidepressant effects. The activation of the GHB receptors will only further increase its antidepressant actions.

Hope I solved many doubts. BTW, I'm a psychiatrist.

 

[Hip]

@Beyond
Yes I notice a some decreases in libido from amisulpride, even at the very low dose of 12.5 mg (¼ of a 50 mg tablet) that I am taking. I presume this arises from the increase in prolactin. I find no physical sexual problems from amisulpride; it is just the sexual desire is mentally reduced a little.

In this thread about the benefits of amisulpride for ME/CFS, Adreno mentions that pantethine (a form of vitamin B5 pantothenic acid) should be an inhibitor of prolactin, so taking pantethine with amisulpride may fix the libido effects.

I keep meaning to try pantethine with my amisulpride.

 

[Beyond]

In fact I am taking pantethine 950 mgs per day and have found a subtle but noticeable improvement in libido and sexual function. This is because I tend to have highish prolactin for some reason. I say subtle because I have taken aphrodisiacs and I use their effects to compare.