What helps with tight muscles? Like, really tight...

[NilaJones]

Hello folks .

My head is a little clearer thanks to various supps I have heard about on this forum -- yay! -- and so I am starting to realise that my muscle situation is not normal. Not normal at all.

My back, butt, and hamstings are the main issues, but everywhere is problematic. I do a lot of stretching -- if I don't, and sometimes when I do, the pain keeps me up all night.

'A lot of stretching' used to mean an hour or two. But that has grown over the years: Now I spend 4 hours every evening doing yoga, and I spend almost every waking moment in a stretching position. I wake up, I stretch 2 hours before I can get out of bed. Throughout the day, I am mostly bed- or couch-ridden and I stretch while reading or netsurfing. I am stretching now while I type this.

Then the 4 hours of yoga in the evening, brush teeth, stretch two more hours in bed before lights out. Because brushing my teeth, like everything else, make my back cramp up.

In addition, I get 4 hours per week of extremely deep massage. Yes, I realise that this is insane, now that I am thinking more clearly. But I cannot cope without it.

I take 200mg Celebrex twice a day. Muscle relaxants and opiates, even in tiny doses, give me sleep apnea.

Magnesium, calcium, iron, maganese, and potassium all help with restless legs (sometimes one mineral, sometimes another) but what I describe here is unaffected by them. (I am also taking the max effective dose of each of them. -- Taking more does not help more.) I also take fish oil, eve primrose oil, and vit D, although they don't seem to affect this symptom.

I used google to read some old threads here on the topic, and used them to generate a list of things to try.

I would love to hear from ya'll if I have missed anything that should be on the list, and suggestions for what to try first. I am so tired of spending so much money on supps and waiting for them to arrive from amazon . My doc will likely prescribe anything I request, but I will have to pay out of pocket for the drugs. So, cheap ones are good.

collagen
silica
glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM (I don't have problems with dietary sulfur)
LDN
epsom baths (I worry about aggravating chronic yeast overgrowth)
malic acid
antabloc

Thank you, everyone, anyone .

PS: I am using the mobile version of this site -- I think chat does not work on that, but PM does, for those who prefer not to reply publicly .

 

[Seven7]

I was in the same boat, I take magnesium before bed and in 3 days I feel the difference.

 

[NilaJones]

I was in the same boat, I take magnesium before bed and in 3 days I feel the difference.

Thanks . How much do you take?

I am limited by gut intolerance, but have had no results from 500mg. I was hopeful anout topical application, but I don't seem to absorb it well.

 

[NilaJones]

You could also try epsom salts baths.

Thanks . Are they alkaline at all?

As I mentioned in the OP, I have a chronic yeast infection -- a side effect of Celebrex. I manage to keep it at a low level, but alkaline bathing is a definite no-no.

 

[NilaJones]

I edited the part of my OP that discusses magnesium and other minerals, for clarity.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

LifeFlo pure magnesium oil topically helps me, put it on calves or belly each night before sleep If you use any other lotions during the day, that may be blocking the absorption?

Of course I have to sleep on a towel, that stuff does get everywhere.

Look if four hrs of massage is what you need to get by, then more power to you.

Have you looked at diet? Not sure how it would affect stiffness, but when I balanced out my omegas it made a huge difference for my forearm pain. But it took a few months after quitting both dairy and grains before I really got ninety percent pain free. I was just one big inflammation.

 

[NilaJones]

Thanks, Sparrowhawk .

LifeFlo pure magnesium oil topically helps me, put it on calves or belly each night before sleep If you use any other lotions during the day, that may be blocking the absorption?

No, I don't.

Look if four hrs of massage is what you need to get by, then more power to you.

Well, I am deeply in debt because of it . I also wonder if, longterm, such deep work causes more scar tissue in my muscles.

Have you looked at diet? Not sure how it would affect stiffness, but when I balanced out my omegas it made a huge difference for my forearm pain. But it took a few months after quitting both dairy and grains before I really got ninety percent pain free. I was just one big inflammation.

Interesting! I eat almost no dairy and grains, starting about 6 weeks ago, because with b12 I just lost my taste for them. I have not noticed any change so far. Was your improvement gradual, or sudden after several months?

 

[rosie26]

Hi Nila

Have you tried D Ribose, I have found it really helpful in easing inflammation in my muscles, not as much ache, pain in them.

 

[Seven7]

I am trying to find magnesium under the tongue but topical is ok too. I am doing 1000mg (150mg active). I heard Cheney or Peterson (don't remember which) to say that magnesium was one of the most helpful thought out the day so I am going to try that once I find a good under the tongue one. But I went from being unable to move my neck and shoulders to bee pain free in days. I really will keep on it from now on.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Thanks, Sparrowhawk .



No, I don't.



Well, I am deeply in debt because of it . I also wonder if, longterm, such deep work causes more scar tissue in my muscles.



Interesting! I eat almost no dairy and grains, starting about 6 weeks ago, because with b12 I just lost my taste for them. I have not noticed any change so far. Was your improvement gradual, or sudden after several months?

it was gradual over several months. Other thoughts...have you been through the side effects list of celebrex and is muscle issues on the list? Have you read the threads here on Low Dose Naltrexone? I can't say I've absorbed all of the info but it seems to really help people with fibro and MS, which are muscle tissue and nerve related. You mention it above but don't say if you have tried it. Hang in there and good luck!

 

[NilaJones]

Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate the help and support around this .

@rosie26, No, I haven't tried it, never even heard of it as a therapy .

@lnester7, To take that 1000mg of magnesium I would have to take 1000-2000mg of calcium, in order to prevent diarrhea. Does anyone know if that would be bad for other reasons?

Sparrowhawk: I haven't read much about LDN, no, and have not tried it. But I'm vaguely aware that a lot of folks here find it helpful...

I haven't noticed any change with 6 weeks of almost-no dairy and grains, nor with two weeks completely off, but now is probably a good time for me to make an extreme diet change (none of those, histamine diet, etc.) because of the b12 suppressing my appetite. I guess I should eliminate everything remotely implicated, and then add back in slowly over a time period. Gotta make a list of what to eat and not.

 

[perchance dreamer]

For pain relief in my back and neck, I lie on the Heavenly Mat (acupressure mat I ordered from Amazon) for 20 minutes and then use cold packs for 20 minutes about an hour later. Both help a lot on their own, but used together like this, they give me even more pain relief.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

I've found that I don't get good results from trying to stretch UNLESS my muscles are warm from exercise (a 10-minute walk) or from sitting in the bath. Even physical therapists will tell you it's very difficult to stretch a cold muscle.

I have a strategy for each tight area. For instance, my lower right back is usually painful and tight, so I put a gel pack that I've heated in the microwave on my low back for one hour while I sit in front of the computer first thing in the morning. If I don't do this, my back will be prone to spasms and pain the rest of the day. I also have really tight calves. So I go for a 10-minute walk and end it by doing some really deep stretches afterwards. I also do some calf stretches while sitting in the bathtub once my legs are warm. Once I'm out of the bath, I do more calf stretches.

Cannabis is excellent for relaxing all of my tight muscles. I vaporize it, rather than smoke it, so it's easy on the lungs. I notice a difference in tightness within about ten minutes. If I ingest food-based cannabis (brownies) the effect takes longer to kick in (60 to 90 minutes), but the effect lasts a bit longer. I usually end up vaporizing and ingesting cannabis, to have the best of both worlds. I have achilles tendonitis and it usually feels like I'm walking on my toes. Once I've ingested enough cannabis I don't feel like I'm walking on my toes any longer. I live in Washington state in the US where it has been legal for medical use for quite some time.

Good cannabis will make you feel like you want to get up and stretch. It's the oddest feeling, but when the cannabis is working, I feel compelled to get up and bend from side to side for my back. Or I'll feel like I have to get in the bathtub to warm and release my tight calves. I've heard this happens to other users too.

If you're unsure of how you might respond to cannabis, you might do a search in this forum for cannabis or marijuana and read other's comments. I know of one woman with fibromyalgia who won't take pharmaceuticals but bathes 3 times a day and uses cannabis daily for her muscles.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Sushi]

NilaJones

If you have access to a Far Infrared Sauna, that should also help.

Best,
Sushi

 

[CbIEBER]

I've found that I don't get good results from trying to stretch UNLESS my muscles are warm from exercise (a 10-minute walk) or from sitting in the bath. Even physical therapists will tell you it's very difficult to stretch a cold muscle.

I have a strategy for each tight area. For instance, my lower right back is usually painful and tight, so I put a gel pack that I've heated in the microwave on my low back for one hour while I sit in front of the computer first thing in the morning. If I don't do this, my back will be prone to spasms and pain the rest of the day. I also have really tight calves. So I go for a 10-minute walk and end it by doing some really deep stretches afterwards. I also do some calf stretches while sitting in the bathtub once my legs are warm. Once I'm out of the bath, I do more calf stretches.

Cannabis is excellent for relaxing all of my tight muscles. I vaporize it, rather than smoke it, so it's easy on the lungs. I notice a difference in tightness within about ten minutes. If I ingest food-based cannabis (brownies) the effect takes longer to kick in (60 to 90 minutes), but the effect lasts a bit longer. I usually end up vaporizing and ingesting cannabis, to have the best of both worlds. I have achilles tendonitis and it usually feels like I'm walking on my toes. Once I've ingested enough cannabis I don't feel like I'm walking on my toes any longer. I live in Washington state in the US where it has been legal for medical use for quite some time.

Good cannabis will make you feel like you want to get up and stretch. It's the oddest feeling, but when the cannabis is working, I feel compelled to get up and bend from side to side for my back. Or I'll feel like I have to get in the bathtub to warm and release my tight calves. I've heard this happens to other users too.

If you're unsure of how you might respond to cannabis, you might do a search in this forum for cannabis or marijuana and read other's comments. I know of one woman with fibromyalgia who won't take pharmaceuticals but bathes 3 times a day and uses cannabis daily for her muscles.

Best of luck to you.

Hello,
I am new to this forum and I would like to express my thoughts on cannabis and CFS. My son has been bedridden for 10 months now. He crashed last January after being improperly diagnosed with depression as the cause for his pain and fatigue after a bad case of Epstein Barr (Mono). His crash did not come on suddenly, it kind of crept up getting worse and worse. He wasn't able to work a full day or would take 3 hour naps on weekends. He was put on Cymbalta which covered up his pain but did nothing for the fatigue. He used to work out at the gym 5 days a week and was getting weaker and weaker. He thought he was doing something wrong or not eating enough protein, etc. He took last years Holiday season off and did not work out at all thinking he needed a break. In January he went for a jog and found he couldn't run for even 5 minutes. He usually ran for 30 to 45 minutes. He came in and went to bed and had to stay there. At this point he was still able to go out to his band members homes for visits. (He played drums since he was in 5th grade, he is now 27) and that is where he would smoke marijuana to get relief from his symptoms. He continued to decline until he was unable to anything but stare at the ceiling or wall. He is very slowly getting better following the protocol from Dr. Sarah Myhill and a Holistic Physician who found a thyroid problem. This Dr. does not know about his cannabis use. My son told me that he didn't want to tell him because if he tells him to stop he won't. I am not a cannabis user and am a bit paranoid about having it in the house but my son said that if I don't let him use it he will drink instead because the pain is unbearable. I don't want him to be an alcoholic. I know that he will get better. I am seeing it month by month. It will take time but it took 5 years from the time he had EBV to crashing so I continue to cook proper foods, keep him updated with his vitamins and rest. He is one of the lucky ones that was able to live at home and not have to drag himself through work every day for his livelihood.

He uses a vaporizer also so the smell doesn't permeate the house. He says he feels so bad for people who don't have access to cannabis because he doesn't know where he would be if he had not had access to it for the last 10 months. He has a wonderful friend and former band member that brings it to him. This young man is so kind and understands that my son cannot have conversations with him because of the cognitive dysfunction so he just brings him his stuff and visits for a few minutes and leaves.

I am happy to say that he has gone from having to use cannabis 5 times a day to some days not even needing it on some days (not too many yet but his usage is down) He used a lot when he withdrew from the Cymbalta which has the same withdrawal side effects as heroin. The withdrawal was the worst but the cannabis got him through. Please for anyone suffering with pain or depression from the disease please try cannabis. We are a long way from getting it legalized for medicinal use since we can't even get most doctors to recognize CFS as a real disease!!

It is worth a try and just may give you some relief from the terrible suffering you are going through. I may not have the disease but I see how it took my beautiful, happy, energetic son and turned him into an invalid. If cannabis can alleviate some of the discomfort from the disease while all the supplements you are taking are given a chance to work please give it a try. I hate to think of the thousands suffering as I have seen my son suffer.

Please know that I pray for all of you suffering from CFS/ME every day and have joined every website that has anything to do with CFS. The medical profession is so far away from being able to help you sometimes we have to take matters into our own hands. I never thought the day would come when I would condone usage in my home but I had no choice and I thank God that he has made me change my mind and am in full support as of now.

May God Bless each and every one of you. I hold you dearly in my heart. I have seen what this disease can do. Please give cannabis a try. It may not be for everyone but it's worth a try.

Blessings to you all.

 

[Nielk]

Hi @CbIEBER ,

Welcome to the forum. I am really sorry about your son's disability. I don't have any experience with cannabis but there have been some threads about it on the forum.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ia-and-m-e-my-experience-and-questions.22099/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/medical-marijuana-and-me-cfs.18599/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...a-for-pain-and-sleep-and-the-pem-in-cfs.4106/

I wish your son continued recovery!

 

[SickOfSickness]

Myofascial release helps me.

If you are trying to absorb through your skin, try through the soles of your feet. It should be better absorption.

Try eliminating nightshades if you have not. (Potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, etc.) Supposedly you may need to go 6 months or more to see the difference.

 

[BrianPohl]

Hi Nila,

Wow.. we're in similar situations. I have chronic muscle inflammation when dealing with my CFS/ME/PsA problems. The pain infuses my muscle tissues all along the spinal cord and then flairs outward in the lower back and middle back between the shoulder blades. I would also describe it as feeling like my spinal cord is bruised in addition to the muscle pain. Its deep and even massage has a difficult time helping it. Sometimes I worry the lower back pain is kidney or adrenal related, while the upper back flairs make me worry about some sort of cancer. The intensity of pain ranges from mild (on good days) to holy crap I can't move because I'm in so much pain. (Which is becoming far more often. I've been dealing with this progressively for 15 years). I do suffer from psoriatic arthritis, so I'm sure that's contributing to the problem. I tried going on biologics and DMARDs but that didn't help much and just got me constantly sick with colds, flus and such.

I deploy a series of tactics. Heating pads in bed. Tens Units. Soaking in my hot tub. Stretching. Magnesium. Massage. Eventually I'll start deploying genetic info (from 23andMe) and supplemental medicine/vita/minerals to hopefully begin a treatment plan. Sometimes I'll deploy an antihistamine which works on occasion.

I would probably guess for people like you and me, we have over zealous immune systems that are out of control.

 

[taniaaust1]

If I had your issue, I'd buy a certain massage device thing Ive seen. sorry I dont know what its called (maybe someone else here knows) but its one in which you lay on the floor on a mat eyes closed (or open) and the feet are strapped into a foot support thing and then the device shakes or more so wobbles one around side to side and all over the place quite intensely. The wobbling of the whole body it does while this is going on does the same thing as a extremely good massage and all you have to do is lay there (the head thou that gets wobbled too it isnt like a bad being head shaken thing).

Its extremely relaxing thou quite intense massage wise... it should save you money from all the money you are having to spend on massages, if you could get one.

 

[GracieJ]

If I had your issue, I'd buy a certain massage device thing Ive seen. sorry I dont know what its called (maybe someone else here knows) but its one in which you lay on the floor on a mat eyes closed (or open) and the feet are strapped into a foot support thing and then the device shakes or more so wobbles one around side to side and all over the place quite intensely. The wobbling of the whole body it does while this is going on does the same thing as a extremely good massage and all you have to do is lay there (the head thou that gets wobbled too it isnt like a bad being head shaken thing).

Its extremely relaxing thou quite intense massage wise... it should save you money from all the money you are having to spend on massages, if you could get one.

It is called a chi machine, designed to move the entire spine like a fish's while stimulating the entire meridian system and oxygenating the body. Most people find their bodies tingling after a session because of the extra oxygen, so it can be very healing. A good one here in the states runs around $200.

Try before you ever buy for sure... I have some scoliosis, and although I love the after results, the 30-min session can actually be too much for me. Five minutes max at one time, which is not long enough, and so I still do not own one. Wish, wish, wish.