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Does anyone take AdenoB12 / Dibencozide by Source Naturals or other brand?

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
@Helen I am in the UK and diagnosed with Pernicious Anemia, so I am given a hydroxycbl injection every 6/8 weeks. (for past 6 months) this has helped but is not enough. I have tried self injectin (3 times a week) but get an allergic reaction (possibly a nickel allergy) which is bearable but not great. The reaction is why I have switched to Fredds protocol. I cant say that I am better (yet) than I was taking hydroxy, but will give it a while longer.

Symptoms I am left with are fatigue and general malaise!

I see you are in Sweden - could I ask where you get your injectable methyl? and why do you use methyl rather than hydroxy?

Thanks

I get them from one of the few doctors who from experience know that some patients need injections even every second day. Authorities have been after some of them, but now they should have mutations from gene tests as a proof for this. But I also had a doctor that recommended me to buy MCbl in Spain without prescription. I don´t know if this is possible any longer, but before friends travelling bought MCbl for me.

Have you had a 23andme test? What ingredients are there in the HydroxyCbl as you get an allergic reaction? Are you convinced that the diagnose pernicious anemia is correct? Do you get intrinsic factor as a supplement?

 

trollo

Senior Member
Messages
153
Location
Italy
The point is that i feel like i don't even want to arrive to the point of needing Potassium, i feel like this is risky and innatural and pushing too much on things... i won't ever go upper to 2000 mcg of b12 x day
 

Al Klein

Senior Member
Messages
101
Location
United Kingdom (Buckinghamshire)
I get them from one of the few doctors who from experience know that some patients need injections even every second day. Authorities have been after some of them, but now they should have mutations from gene tests as a proof for this. But I also had a doctor that recommended me to buy MCbl in Spain without prescription. I don´t know if this is possible any longer, but before friends travelling bought MCbl for me.

Have you had a 23andme test? What ingredients are there in the HydroxyCbl as you get an allergic reaction? Are you convinced that the diagnose pernicious anemia is correct? Do you get intrinsic factor as a supplement?

@Helen - thanks for the reply - always good to chat to someone this side of the Atlantic!
Dr's in this country are being hounded as well, mainly for thyroid treatment, but also B12.
We have a new MB12 product in the UK, I know a few people trying it so am keeping a close eye on it, I am concerned as to maintaining its stability and sterile though
http://oxfordbiosciences.com/methylcobalamin-research/

I have done 23andme :

Homo for COMT V158M & H62H, VDR taq, MAO-A, MTRR A66G CBS A360A

Hetero for MTRR A664A, BHMT 02,04 and ACHY 01,02,09

I react either to the Hydroxy or the nickel in the needle - I know I have a nickel allergy, I do not know what affects me in the Hydroxy. Doesnt happen when GP does it IM only when I do sub-cut

I have Hashimotos (antibodies) and gastric Parietal antibodies - do not have IF antibodies. My belief is that the gastric parietal antibodies stopped the production of intrinsic factor.a number of years ago

I discovered this year that in 2008 I had a serum B12 of 214 and I have been getting progressively worse since that time. I improved considerably when I first started (because someone suggested it) Jarrows 5000 and therefore did not go on to have a further low B12 blood serum test. I believe I have B12 deficiency.

I am however still very fatigued!!
 

trollo

Senior Member
Messages
153
Location
Italy
Ehy, is more than 11umol/L of homocysteine a high value?? I had 14,8 last year and thought it was ok...
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Ehy, is more than 11umol/L of homocysteine a high value?? I had 14,8 last year and thought it was ok...
Without knowing the reference values for the lab that made the analyse it sounds high. Always ask for reference limits or what it might be called :). If high, you probably have a vit B12-deficiency.
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
@Helen - thanks for the reply - always good to chat to someone this side of the Atlantic!
Dr's in this country are being hounded as well, mainly for thyroid treatment, but also B12.
We have a new MB12 product in the UK, I know a few people trying it so am keeping a close eye on it, I am concerned as to maintaining its stability and sterile though
http://oxfordbiosciences.com/methylcobalamin-research/

I have done 23andme :

Homo for COMT V158M & H62H, VDR taq, MAO-A, MTRR A66G CBS A360A

Hetero for MTRR A664A, BHMT 02,04 and ACHY 01,02,09

I react either to the Hydroxy or the nickel in the needle - I know I have a nickel allergy, I do not know what affects me in the Hydroxy. Doesnt happen when GP does it IM only when I do sub-cut

I have Hashimotos (antibodies) and gastric Parietal antibodies - do not have IF antibodies. My belief is that the gastric parietal antibodies stopped the production of intrinsic factor.a number of years ago

I discovered this year that in 2008 I had a serum B12 of 214 and I have been getting progressively worse since that time. I improved considerably when I first started (because someone suggested it) Jarrows 5000 and therefore did not go on to have a further low B12 blood serum test. I believe I have B12 deficiency.

I am however still very fatigued!!

Hi Al Klein,
Agree, almost neighbours :). Thanks for the link. Looks interesting and from good researchers. I will read it later. Takes some time...Your MTRR probably causes a great need for extra vitamin B12 , and regularly. Luckily your MTHFR ´s are OK.

An old doctor told a friend with low iron when she was a child "Without vitamin B12 the iron will not stay". And a high ferritin is necessary for the thyroid to work (near the upper limit) so it should be checked, but I suppose all the iron labwork has been done.

There is a liquid HydroxyCbl from Yasko, HolisticHeal, maybe that could be worth a trial? Maybe you need lithium orotate to help with the transport of B12? With the stomach problems you have, the general uptake is probably impaired.

Did you see this product? Good content as far as I can see.

http://www.pureformulas.com/bcomple...ouglas-laboratories.html#sthash.Yh1TEp2O.dpbs

Nickel allergy is common among people with mercury problems (and ME too). If you get the Detox panel from GeneticGenie you can check if you are at risk for having mutations in the livers detoxification enzymes. If it would be an allergy from the needle it should happen also with an IM injection.

I do hope you can find a B12 protocol that will work for you. It surely will make a difference! I know that Yasko recomended 25 mg´s a day for a period of months to a friend of mine. All routes and all forms and three times a day to saturate the tissues. Just as a comparison...

PS A microwawe owen destroys vitamin B12..
 

trollo

Senior Member
Messages
153
Location
Italy
The limit was 15, so i looked almost borderline, but i don t understand why the lab's limit should change the value of the results that is measured in international standardised units... at that time, beginning of 2012 i had this values
vit b12 189 pg/ml (211-911)
folate 5,50 ng/ml (>5,38)
homocysteine 14,80 umoli/L (5-15)

Without knowing the reference values for the lab that made the analyse it sounds high. Always ask for reference limits or what it might be called :). If high, you probably have a vit B12-deficiency.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
@Helen I am in the UK and diagnosed with Pernicious Anemia, so I am given a hydroxycbl injection every 6/8 weeks. (for past 6 months) this has helped but is not enough. I have tried self injectin (3 times a week) but get an allergic reaction (possibly a nickel allergy) which is bearable but not great. The reaction is why I have switched to Fredds protocol. I cant say that I am better (yet) than I was taking hydroxy, but will give it a while longer.

Symptoms I am left with are fatigue and general malaise!

I see you are in Sweden - could I ask where you get your injectable methyl? and why do you use methyl rather than hydroxy?

Thanks

Hi Al Klein,

HyCbl can cause acne type lesions in a day or two following injection. Further as it depletes methylation and causes methyltrap then the allergies get going great guns as methylfolate is blocked. The problem with injectable MeCbl is it is unreliable as to quality and exposed to too much light (say 10 minutes of room light a normal room light levels) it becomes HyCbl and causes acne
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
I agree with Violeta. The Dibencozide from Source naturals works best for me. One less capsule to take... It dissolves rather quickly , but it surely helps. I notice I have less energy if I have forgotten it . I take it in the morning.

HI Helen,

, but it surely helps. I notice I have less energy if I have forgotten it .

Now that is most anomalous. That happens for most people the first couple of times. By then the mitochondria are as occupied as they are going to get and the mitochondrial half life appears to be 71 days . If you are feeling it daily by my interpretation that would be some of the AdoCbl being converted to MeCbl, which happens to an extent in both directions. Only people with specific genetic variations can't convert any. These two, being the 99% cobalamins in the human body are the ones that can be converted most easily. That the small amount that would be converted from the AdoCbl makes any noticeable difference at all indicates that even less is getting converted from HyCbl. If your body had all the MeCbl you needed you wouldn't feel it at all. Only MeCbl filling in deficiency is noticeable. Also, that you are feeling it shows that it is obviously being absorbed.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
HydroxoB12 works quite well for me, even though I'm homozygous for MTRR A66G. I can't tolerate methylB12 for long, and it doesn't help with pain. I also don't like the potassium-related side-effects of methylB12. I also don't get any acne problems from hydroxoB12.

Are there any studies showing methylB12, especially your favored brand, to be more effective than hydroxoB12? Or is that just your subjective experience?


Hi Valentijn,

How could you possibly know that it does or doesn't help with various pains. You don't take MeCbl long enough with the items needed to even have a chance of having any healing or pain reduction. It isn't morphine. It doesn't relieve pain in 30 minutes for 4 hours. Instead it can help heal the causes of many pains of many types as various levels of healing are activated and maintained for months to years.