• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Qu - does altitude help or harm?

Persimmon

Senior Member
Messages
135
Incline Village is roughly 1,900m (6,000ft) above sea level.

Is this altitude theorised to have been significant?

Also, are symptoms aggravated (or improved) when people with ME/CFS travel to elevated locations, such as Incline Village?
 
Messages
2,565
Location
US
This older thread had no replies.

I am curious about altitude effects too.

In an interview, Dr Bell said people living at high altitudes have higher blood volume. But in other documents I am seeing they just have higher red cells and hematocrit, so they have thicker blood. He may have been just simplifying his answer.

In one thread, someone said during a short vacation to high altitude, he felt bad. He returned to normal when he got home.

I am curious if you took ME patients to high altitude, and they lived there for a year, or however long it takes to increase their red cells. When they move back, I guess it would reverse and they lose the red cells?
 

peggy-sue

Senior Member
Messages
2,623
Location
Scotland
I was listening to a friend trying to describe what it felt like at a very high altitude some years ago - I wondered at the time if that might be a vague "model" for ME.
Vastly reduced oxygen, making *everything* slow and difficult......

I thought that folk who live permanently at high altitudes (as in indigenous) have a more efficient form of haemoglobin in their RBCs - as well as more RBCs. I may be wrong.:D
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
SickOfSickness peggy-sue

I moved from 5 ft about sea level to 6500 ft and felt no difference.

I've also spent time (about a week) at extremely high altitude (about 1400 ft [I mean 14,000 ft!] in the Himalayas) and there I could barely walk 5 yrds, had headaches etc.

So, for what it is worth, one person's report!

Edit: I meant 14,ooo ft!

Sushi
 
Messages
2,565
Location
US
I moved from 5 ft about sea level to 6500 ft and felt no difference.

I've also spent time (about a week) at extremely high altitude (about 1400 ft in the Himalayas) and there I could barely walk 5 yrds, had headaches etc.


Wow. Were you in better health when you moved, versus your week trip? What else do you think made the difference?
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
Wow. Were you in better health when you moved, versus your week trip? What else do you think made the difference?


I was in better health when I went to the Himalayas. I'm pretty sure that it was the extreme altitude. 6500 ft is not extreme and doesn't really bother the majority of "healthies," anyway.

Sushi
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
Cortisol requirements are increased at altitude so this may also be a factor in the transition for some of us as well. Our HPA axis may not be as responsive to the increased need which leaves us more symptomatic and for a longer period of time.

Ema
 

peggy-sue

Senior Member
Messages
2,623
Location
Scotland
6500' isn't very high at all - it's about the height of the Scottish Munroes, I don't know of anybody who has even noticed thinner air at that height. I do know a lot of people who spend a lot of time up there. :)
 

Allyson

Senior Member
Messages
1,684
Location
Australia, Melbourne
Incline Village is roughly 1,900m (6,000ft) above sea level.

Is this altitude theorised to have been significant?

Also, are symptoms aggravated (or improved) when people with ME/CFS travel to elevated locations, such as Incline Village?

my specialist say s altitiude is extremely bad for us due to the decompression

th8is is one reason why flying is such an issue

flying is like being at 9 000 feet

he says many people discover they have EDS when they go mountain climbing and - tragically - drop dead from the altitiude.

I have avoided mountains but flying always has very deleterious effects on me

Ally
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
I lived "at altitude" (7000 ft) for several years long before I got ME/CFS and climbed a number of 14,000 ft peaks. Altitude never gave me a problem then, although many healthy people struggle with altitudes above 7000 ft. Since then, I've never had problems going from low altitude, where I live now, to high altitude. Only once in the 30 years I've been visiting at high altitude did I get altitude sickness and that was pre-ME.

Since I've had ME/CFS I've been back home maybe half a dozen times. Typically I don't notice the altitude (other than the usual breathlessness with exertion most lowlanders feel at first) or I feel better. I certainly don't feel worse.

The altitude/pressure difference in airplanes doesn't bother me, either. The crowdedness, the smells, and the dehydration are issues, but not the pressure difference.
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
6500' isn't very high at all - it's about the height of the Scottish Munroes, I don't know of anybody who has even noticed thinner air at that height. I do know a lot of people who spend a lot of time up there. :)


When living at 7000+ ft, I encountered many people -- mostly known as "tourists" ;) -- who suffered from altitude-related problems in their first few days at altitude. It's a mild form of altitude sickness, we were told. Not everyone gets it, though. There seems to be a strong genetic component as well as a correlation between a tendency to migraines and susceptibility to altitude sickness. Degree of physical fitness didn't seem to make any difference.

Also, the vast majority of people going from low altitude to high altitude (about 7000 feet and up) will notice some degree of shortness of breath with exertion until they acclimatize, which takes several days. I'm surprised you haven't met anybody who even noticed the thinner air. I camped with dozens of people who came from the lowlands to the CO mountains and virtually all of them noticed the thinner air at first, although there was a large variation in "suffering" from almost none to being bedbound for several days.
 

peggy-sue

Senior Member
Messages
2,623
Location
Scotland
Soc said:
"There seems to be a strong genetic component as well as a correlation between a tendency to migraines and susceptibility to altitude sickness. Degree of physical fitness didn't seem to make any difference."

I believe this is completely correct. I saw a tv programme about some mountain-climbing expedition in the Himalayas.
None of them had been at these sorts of altitudes before.
Several experienced and fit mountaineers could not cope with the altitude and had to give up early - while some who were less fit and experienced were able to get much further up.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
does anyone know if there's a link between nitric oxide and altitude?

I feel great at higher altitudes (partly because of the drier air, and lower pollution, too). I also get some help from arginine, which raises n.o.

thanks.
 

Misfit Toy

Senior Member
Messages
4,178
Location
USA
I felt no difference in Denver, or Wyoming. Everyone else was sick, but I was shooting guns at the ranch I was staying at like "Annie Get Your Gun!" No problem with altitude. And.....I'm the sick one!
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
I felt no difference in Denver, or Wyoming. Everyone else was sick, but I was shooting guns at the ranch I was staying at like "Annie Get Your Gun!" No problem with altitude. And.....I'm the sick one!

I'm like that, too! I went to a wedding in Durango, CO (altitude 6500 ft) and felt great... Dry air, no pollution, too, which no doubt helps... We were going out every night & hiking around every day.... I popped out of bed every day like toast out of the toaster...lol.. I would move there but it's too lonely.. I don't know anyone there and - most of all - have no idea how I would earn money there. I wish I could simulate high altitude where I live... Its not the only factor that made me feel good in durango, but it's a start... I feel good on airplanes, too.
 

garcia

Aristocrat Extraordinaire
Messages
976
Location
UK
does anyone know if there's a link between nitric oxide and altitude?
I feel great at higher altitudes (partly because of the drier air, and lower pollution, too). I also get some help from arginine, which raises n.o.
thanks.
I feel good on airplanes, too.

I've flown twice since I got sick and both times I felt pretty darn good afterwards. I was able to do much more than normal. There definitely seems to be some kind of beneficial physiological effect, in me as well. Would love to know the possible mechanisms.