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Doing cheap version of methylation protocol in UK?

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
Hi Guys

I have a friend here in the UK who is a single parent on welfare, and has ME, and wants to do a version of Rich's protocol
without ordering stuff from the US. Does anyone have any suggestions, or things they have used they can recommend? I just used the stuff he recommended, and am not sure what to advise her in terms of like for like.

Thanks in advance for any responses,

Sian
 
Messages
15,786
Hi Guys

I have a friend here in the UK who is a single parent on welfare, and has ME, and wants to do a version of Rich's protocol
without ordering stuff from the US. Does anyone have any suggestions, or things they have used they can recommend? I just used the stuff he recommended, and am not sure what to advise her in terms of like for like.
I get hydroxoB12 from http://www.bloem.net/recoverypowervitamineb12?filter_name=Recovery Power Vitamine B12 (maybe you have something closer in the UK, but at least it's in the EU). And I get methylfolate from a basic, good quality B vitamin complex. Dunno about folinic though.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
All the stuff can be ordered from iHerb for a bit cheaper than Holistic Heal (although they'd have to use a different multivitamin). Retailmenot has codes for first time customers at iHerb which would save either $5 or $10 depending on the size of order.

Lecithin: (1 tsp per day)
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Lecithin-Granules-Non-GMO-1-lb-454-g/303

Hydroxocobalamin and folinic acid: (One tablet per day taken sublingually)
http://www.iherb.com/Biotics-Research-Corporation-B12-2000-60-Lozenges/45148

Multivitamin: (two tablets per day divided into two doses if possible. Also available in capsules for slightly more money)
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Two-Per-Day-Tablets-120-Tablets/46637

Methylfolate (1/4 tablet per day. Don't start until after B12 and folinic acid are tolerated)
http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Folate-As-Metafolin-800-mcg-100-Tablets/13961

A slightly cheaper option would be to take 1/2 tablet of hydroxocobalamin and 1/2 tablet of methylcobalmin (starting at 1/4 tablet of each). Despite these being labeled as "chewable" they must be taken sublingually.
http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-B12-Infusion-Energy-30-Chewable-Tablets/2119

This is why Rich recommends starting with hydroxocobalamin, but I think taking half and half would be ok (especially if methylcobalamin is at a low dose).
This was used in earlier versions of the protocol to supply the high dosage of B12 that is needed to overcome the functional B12 deficiency. In the previous version of the SMP, I changed the recommendation to Hydroxy B12 Megadrops taken under the tongue. Several people have reported that this has not been as effective as the Perque Activated B12 Guard, so I am now changing back to that. Perhaps the length of time that the liquid drops are in contact with the mucosa is just too short to allow enough absorption sublingually.

I had also considered changing the form of B12 to methylcobalamin. Some PWMEs do need to use this form, particularly if their glutathione and/or S-adenosylmethionine are very low. However, use of hydroxocobalamin is a “gentler” approach to lifting the partial methylation cycle block, and many PWMEs need such an approach. Use of hydroxocobalamin also keeps the cells in control of the rate of the methylation cycle, preventing it from being overdriven, which slows the rise of glutathione. So I have decided to stay with hydroxocobalamin as the first form of B12 to try. For people who do not get a response from the SMP within a couple of months, switching to methylcobalamin would be an option to try. Another option would be to try adding some adenosylcobalamin (dibencozide). However, I do not favor raising the overall dosage of B12 very much above 2,000 micrograms per day, and especially not when it is combined with dosages of methyfolate that are much above the RDA range of 400 to 800 micrograms per day. This combination can overdrive the methylation cycle and hinder the rise of glutathione.

Best regards,

Rich
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
When I was looking, over a year ago now, I found a good source of folinic acid at http://www.mandimart.co.uk/
and http://www.vitaminsuk.com
Also vitaminsuk was the only place that seemed to do General Vitamin Nuerological Health Formula that Rich recommended.
I noticed that the folinic acid is also available on ebay.co.uk
For that price it's probably just cheaper to order the NHF and some of the supplies from Holistic Heal (and the rest at iHerb). The price for the NHF on Holistic Heal is in USD rather than pounds which is why the prices might seem comparable at first glance. I'm pretty sure that even with shipping it would be cheaper to order from iHerb (and holistic heal if they wanted the NHF) If someone wanted the NHF for their multi rather than the Life Extension I mentioned above (because it's a lot cheaper and I thought that's what the person wanted) I'd say get the NHF and Perque hydroxocobalamin from holistic heal and lecithin, folinic acid, and methylfolate from iHerb. Rather than buying folinic acid and methylfolate separately, I'd recommend this b complex:
http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research-Basic-B-Complex-60-Veggie-Caps/18791
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
I get hydroxoB12 from http://www.bloem.net/recoverypowervitamineb12?filter_name=Recovery Power Vitamine B12 (maybe you have something closer in the UK, but at least it's in the EU). And I get methylfolate from a basic, good quality B vitamin complex. Dunno about folinic though.

Have you tried any other brands of hydroxocobalamin or methylcobalamin? I'm asking because I recently switched to methylcobalamin because it was cheaper, but I might consider taking some of my B12 as hydroxocobalamin again if I can get it at a good price. The brand you take seems like a good price (depending on the shipping rates to the US:eek:), but I would like to know how it compares to other brands before I decide whether to order it.
 
Messages
15,786
Have you tried any other brands of hydroxocobalamin or methylcobalamin? I'm asking because I recently switched to methylcobalamin because it was cheaper, but I might consider taking some of my B12 as hydroxocobalamin again if I can get it at a good price. The brand you take seems like a good price (depending on the shipping rates to the US:eek:), but I would like to know how it compares to other brands before I decide whether to order it.
It's the only hydroxoB12 I've ever tried, but it seems to work quite well.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,266
Location
UK
Hi sianrecovery

I order most of my stuff from iherb as it is always cheaper but over £15 and you have to pay import tax and handling fee on top. Shipping is cheap. Sometimes I have put in a few orders under £15 paying separate shipping on each and it has still worked out cheaper than UK buying but the cheapest way is to share the costs with someone sharing the same order for over £15. If one of you orders then recommends iherb to the other you will get discounts. if you use my code for referral DUM627 you will get a discount of 5 - 10 dollars.
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
Christ, I just typed in "b12" supplements into Amazon UK and 24 pages come up. Who knew...they have the Jarrow methyl B12 5000mg, 60 sublingual lozenges? And a Biototics Research B12, 2000 mg....is there a view on the solgar B12's?
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Christ, I just typed in "b12" supplements into Amazon UK and 24 pages come up. Who knew...they have the Jarrow methyl B12 5000mg, 60 sublingual lozenges? And a Biototics Research B12, 2000 mg....is there a view on the solgar B12's?

Jarrow is no longer a good brand of methylcobalamin. Enzymatic Therapy is the best brand of methylcobalamin. Some people have said that Solgar is a pretty good brand of methylcobalamin too, but not as good as Enzymatic Therapy. I don't know about Biotics Research, but that's hydroxocobalamin and it also has folinic acid so you wouldn't need to get that separately. You can get the Biotics at iHerb. I mentioned that and the other supplements in post #4 of this thread. I haven't checked prices on Amazon UK, but keep in mind the pounds to US dollars conversion rate. It might seem like a good price compared to iHerb at first glance, but it might not be.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Thanks Lotus. They do also have Enzymatic on there, so will check out prices. Do you have a view on Thorne Methylguard?

Enzymatic Therapy is a lot cheaper at iHerb. As for the Methylguard, aside from it being expensive, the dosages are going to be too high for some people. Even if they just take one capsule a day. One of the main reasons Rich recommends the Neurological Health Formula is because it doesn't have any methylfolate. Some people can only tolerate a very small amount of methylfolate at the beginning of methylation.

It would be good to take a higher amount of b vitamins though. Especially some in the coenzymated form like the Methyl Guard. For those in the UK I'd recommend one of Thorne's b complexes (such as the one I mentioned in post #4 of this thread). There's some other good b complexes that are cheaper, but I'm not sure if they're available anywhere outside of US and Canada (they're not sold at iHerb).
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
I found a place that ships that hydroxocobalamin Valentijn mentioned to the UK (and elsewhere). Dosage would be 1/4 tablet.
http://www.bol.com/nl/p/bloem-recovery-power-met-vitamine-b12/9200000005143450/
You'll have to do some calculations to figure out how it compares to buying hydroxocobalamin elsewhere. It's 10 mg rather than 2 mg which is what Perque and Biotics sell. Probably a good deal on higher quantity, but with smallest qty not so much. If anyone knows a place that ships this brand to the US for cheaper than this store, please let me know.
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
That's great guys. I couldn't find item 3 or 4 from Lotus's post no 4 on iherb, so that's perfect. I'm seeing her tomorrow. I reckon she can make a start for about £80, which I guess is roughly $120.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
That's great guys. I couldn't find item 3 or 4 from Lotus's post no 4 on iherb, so that's perfect. I'm seeing her tomorrow. I reckon she can make a start for about £80, which I guess is roughly $120.

Why not order from iHerb? It's a lot cheaper. It's around $67 + shipping from iHerb. If they're a first time customer the code from retailmenot.com will pretty much pay for the shipping. Even if you order the NHF and Thorne b complex instead of the Life Extension multi and methylfolate it will still probably be cheaper.