Doxycycline -- effect on intestinal flora

[jen1177]

This abstract is for anyone considering doxycycline treatment for CFS or Lyme Disease or Protomyxzoa Rheumatica. Please be warned.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18397263
It clearly states that doxy has a drastic effect on bifido bacteria populations in the gut.


My doctor told me I had Protomyxzoa Rheumatica and put me on long term doxycycline. I had IBS pretty much my whole life and after six months of doxy it is the worst it's ever been and my acne (all over face, scalp, neck) is much worse. The bloating and gas, and abdominal pain and distention, and unceasing constipation are all the worst they've ever been. Especially at night when I look like I'm 6 months pregnant. I am so disappointed in my doctor who told me that doxy doesn't have much of an affect on the intestinal bacteria and told me not to worry about it. And then it turns out that I did NOT have Protomyxzoa after all. Why he lied to me, I don't know. I feel now like I'm more of a guinea pig than a patient.
Everyone, please beware of doctors claiming they know what they are doing in treating Protomyxzoa with long term antibiotics. This has been a huge mistake for me.

 

[AbbyDear]

thanks for the info.

 

[Lotus97]

When I had a tooth pulled a year ago I was on antibiotics for only 10 days, but I had really bad diarrhea for over a month afterwards. Before that, I had had chronic constipation so this was completely unexpected. I've been hesitant to take antibiotics for Lyme, but recently I've heard from a few people who had success with them so I was more optimistic. Now I'm back to being more cautious as I'm reminded of my own experience with antibiotics.

 

[ukxmrv]

It's not "just" the bogus infections that we need this advice on. I think it was Dr Cheney who was hesitant to us AB's on patients because of the effects on the gut.

I've had bad infections right from that start of this disease. Tonsillitis, sinus infections and more. These were treated by my doctor with AB's and before I took them I had no gut symptoms at all. It was mainly the severe viral ones (throat, glands etc).

For me it wasn't enough to take probiotics after a course of AB's. This stopped having any effect after about 10 years. This was after I tried some of the different AB regimes (pulsing and switching). The reaction for me was not just the gut symptoms but an all over worsening of my health.
I'm very sceptical of the Herx effect as explaining all the bad reactions we get from them.

It wasn't until I hit on the combo of Valtrex, Imunovir and then added AB's that I could get through a course of them feeling a little better than when I started. That still left the stomach issues to deal with and the MAF314 is helping.

We are all guinea pigs here to some extent. Really sorry Jen, that you have been put through this.

 

[IreneF]

Jen, I think you need a different doc.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I am so disappointed in my doctor who told me that doxy doesn't have much of an affect on the intestinal bacteria and told me not to worry about it. And then it turns out that I did NOT have Protomyxzoa after all. Why he lied to me, I don't know. I feel now like I'm more of a guinea pig than a patient.

He probably lied to you because his drug rep lied to him.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I've had bad infections right from that start of this disease. Tonsillitis, sinus infections and more. These were treated by my doctor with AB's and before I took them I had no gut symptoms at all. It was mainly the severe viral ones (throat, glands etc).

Why were you being given antibiotics for viral infections?

 

[ukxmrv]

Hi Little Bluestem,

Because of the sinus, tonsil, chest and other infections (I..e thick green pus etc)

 

[heapsreal]

Not neccessarily the antibiotics maybe more related to our poor immunity that allows these other opportunistic infection to occur. Sort of dammed if u do and dammed if u dont. I think what has helped me while using antibiotics so much is taking things like probiotics and especially sacchromyce bouldarri. But most docs arent trained to think this way.

 

[Jarod]

We are a really difficult bunch of patients to treat because we all have slightly different problems.

The doctors need to learn about the many different variations of CFS on their own without much support from "the system."

It's a difficult situation all the way around.

Some people do ok on ABX.

 

[Waverunner]

Btw. sciencedaily had an article about an AB, which increased longevity in worms. They didn't say the name of the AB, so that no reader gets the idea to go to his doctor and ask for it. I read the study and guess which AB it was, Doxycycline!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130522131120.htm

Weary youngsters, vigorous old folks
Worms given antibiotics don't just live to ripe old age. At maturity, which is 13 days, they also moved twice as much as the others, according to Laurent Mouchiroud, co-author of the study. "Around 20 days of age, the difference was even more pronounced because the 'control' individuals were often already in bad shape," he adds.

 

[AbbyDear]

i often wonder about the ill effect, and possibly lasting effects of AB treatment. i always have a difficult time on them. I think it has been stated or speculated that the overuse may be responsible for AB-resistant strains of bugs. If so, does this mean we become mutation factories in our gut. What are the ramifications of all that's left over. Does the population of those bacteria not killed by the particular dose of AB become overpopulated, since there is less overall bacteria to compete with them. The balance could be altered. i have read about some of the "bad" bacteria can become a problem for some on certain ABs. the sacchromyce bouldarri is recommended, among other things. Are the probiotics really the same as that we got from our mom, and food growing up. Can we really get back to where things were before AB treatment ? what about those who need to take ABs for a very long time. i know some get improvement from lyme and similar infections. good luck, hope you feel better at some point.

 

[Lotus97]

I think some people do have success with antibiotics, but it's good to be cautious. I'm doing Buhner's Lyme protocol which uses herbs. Even if it turns out that I do need to take antibiotics in additon to the herbs, I might not need as high of a dose or need to take it as long. I'm also doing methylation which will help build up my immune system.

 

[Waverunner]

AbbyDear, there's no easy answer. C. difficile infections arise from anbibiotic use and the funny thing is, that C. difficile infection can be perfectly treated, not by antibiotics (which work in around 70%) but by other bacteria through microbiome transplants (which work in about 90% of patients). The big problem we have with antibiotics is that we are all different. There are 500-1000 different strains of bacteria in your gut and the human microbiome consists of 10 times more bacteria, than you have cells in your body. So if we use ABs, we cannot be sure what they do. Maybe the AB works very well against certain strains, that are detrimental to your body. In this case, the AB is good for you. But maybe, the AB kills of very useful bacteria and gives rise to pathogenic bacteria, that were kept in check by the good ones. As long as we don't sequence microbiomes, a treatment of ABs is always a gamble because we don't know what effect the AB will have in the long run.

 

[JT1024]

I've taken antibiotics for years for various reasons. Since I've worked in healthcare for many years and see first hand the consequences of taking the antibiotics, I've always taken probiotics, and more recently Kefir, WITH any antibiotic to ensure I have constant replenishment of good bacteria.

C.diff infections are very common. At the hospital where I work, we routinely do C.diff testing by PCR on patients coming from nursing homes or rehab hospitals since C. diff is often found there. If you identify a patient with C.diff prior to admission, it helps prevent the spreading of sprores.

A friend of my parents is about to have the fecal transplant from his wife after suffering for a very long time with C. diff.

 

[sianrecovery]

Thanks for posting that Jen, very interesting. I felt loads better on doxy, for a long time, but eventually stopped because I was clearly developing resistances to it. There is always a price to pay. At the time, I would have done anything to feel better than I had.
The study is based on a very small sample - I wish there was some motivation/money to do more studies like it on a larger scale. But I guess there's nothing in that line of inquiry for the pharma's.

 

[Creekee]

Since I've worked in healthcare for many years and see first hand the consequences of taking the antibiotics, I've always taken probiotics, and more recently Kefir,

JT1024, can you give any kefir advice? I'm doing milk yogurt for gut issues and would like to add kefir to expand the types of bacteria I'm getting. Thought water kefir might be a good addition, but sounds like the water kefir grains need more care than a newborn baby.

Can you tell me how you care for them, and what kind and where you get them?

'Preciate any scoop you can provide!

 

[JT1024]

Creekee, I've only recently (the last two months) started the kefir because I had read that it had higher availability of organisms than yogurt.

I'm not doing the kefir myself. I'm using store bought kefir (organic).

Here is a link on the benefits of kefir: http://chriskresser.com/kefir-the-not-quite-paleo-superfood

 

[jen1177]

Btw. sciencedaily had an article about an AB, which increased longevity in worms. They didn't say the name of the AB, so that no reader gets the idea to go to his doctor and ask for it. I read the study and guess which AB it was, Doxycycline!
.

Thanks for the link to the article. Interesting implications...it could mean I have a roundworm infection which got worse from taking the doxycycline. Ugh. But I'd think I'd be losing weight if I had parasites like that. If anything I'm gaining weight gradually. Most is bloat, though. Hmmm.....

 

[jen1177]

Jen, I think you need a different doc.

Heh heh. Yep.
I do have my naturopath who is really nice and understanding and easy to work with, but she has come right out and told me she doesn't know what else to do for me.

This doc that lied to me WAS a new doc. Oy. I'm back to square one again.