Methyl donor symptoms: extreme urination & exhaustion

[helen1]

I've been reading this forum for 8 months now and have learned so much from you all; am very grateful you are here.
With mb12, mfolate, coq10, carnitine, ala, b2, b5, b6 I immediately begin urinating every 15-20 minutes, clear urine, unquenchable thirst and exhaustion. No 'wired-tired' feeling at all except at night when these supps cause twitchy insomnia. Does this look like hypokalemia to anyone?
My potassium normally is 4.8 . Have high urea, although decreasing somewhat with less protein.
I've read the threads about diabetes insipidus and wonder if I have that. My serum osmolality is 297 and my ratio of urine osmolality to serum osm. is 0.9. Without methyl donors, I still urinate a fair bit but nothing like with the methyls.
Have stopped all methyl donors and afraid to try them again, so feel stuck and not sure what to do next. Have been off work due to fatigue for a year; 54 yrs; female.
Have had 23andme, OATs, GI test, hormone profile, so could give more info, but thought this was enough for now.
Any thoughts at all are most welcome.

 

[Victronix]

Does this look like hypokalemia to anyone?

Yes, although urinating every 15-20 min is frequent. Many people do describe the frequent urination, exhaustion, etc., and for me, very dry mouth at night. But I don't know if people have reported a time frequency with urination. Overall, though, these are normal responses for many on here (not sure if people without any health problems will also experience these), based on reports.

I got my potassium tested in the middle of feeling awful after starting methylfolate, and it was rock-bottom, the lowest it has ever been in my life. That pretty much confirmed for me how important it is to take potassium when taking methylators. I thought I could eat bananas and avocado and things and get at it that way, but those were not enough, I needed to take potassium directly, and now take over 1500 mcg / day of potassium gluconate (powder, Now Foods), spread throughout the day. It made all the difference.

Have stopped all methyl donors and afraid to try them again

I know the feeling of being afraid to try or continue these things. I would consider starting with just one or two (methyl B-12 and perhaps methyl folate plus a B-multi), and work out from there.

If you are wondering about diabetes insipidus, I would do whatever you can to find the answer to that, since anything that makes you anxious will continue to open that question up. I know because I experience a lot of anxiety at times with this stuff and every possible catastrophe will suddenly rear its head. For me, the best solution is take a test, like I did with my potassium, and be armed with knowledge.

 

[helen1]

Does this look like hypokalemia to anyone?

Yes, although urinating every 15-20 min is frequent. Many people do describe the frequent urination, exhaustion, etc., and for me, very dry mouth at night. But I don't know if people have reported a time frequency with urination. Overall, though, these are normal responses for many on here (not sure if people without any health problems will also experience these), based on reports.

I got my potassium tested in the middle of feeling awful after starting methylfolate, and it was rock-bottom, the lowest it has ever been in my life. That pretty much confirmed for me how important it is to take potassium when taking methylators. I thought I could eat bananas and avocado and things and get at it that way, but those were not enough, I needed to take potassium directly, and now take over 1500 mcg / day of potassium gluconate (powder, Now Foods), spread throughout the day. It made all the difference.

Have stopped all methyl donors and afraid to try them again

I know the feeling of being afraid to try or continue these things. I would consider starting with just one or two (methyl B-12 and perhaps methyl folate plus a B-multi), and work out from there.

If you are wondering about diabetes insipidus, I would do whatever you can to find the answer to that, since anything that makes you anxious will continue to open that question up. I know because I experience a lot of anxiety at times with this stuff and every possible catastrophe will suddenly rear its head. For me, the best solution is take a test, like I did with my potassium, and be armed with knowledge.

 

[helen1]

Thanks Victronix. So you're saying plain exhaustion without the wiredness could still be hypokalemia, right? Would the symptoms for induced folate deficiency be the same?
As far as diabetes insipidus goes, I'm waiting for an aldosterone test result. What's the consensus on best tests for d. insipidus?

 

[sregan]

I've been reading this forum for 8 months now and have learned so much from you all; am very grateful you are here.
With mb12, mfolate, coq10, carnitine, ala, b2, b5, b6 I immediately begin urinating every 15-20 minutes, clear urine, unquenchable thirst and exhaustion.

Interesting that you are taking B2 and the urine is clear! B2 (Riboflavin) makes the urine bright yellow. How much are you taking?

I know I can't take my b-complex before bed because I will be up a few times during the night. I suspect some of the B's make me urinate more, perhaps helping the kidneys flush things from my system more effeciently or they are removing the excess Bs?

unquenchable thirst and exhaustion. No 'wired-tired' feeling at all except at night when these supps cause twitchy insomnia.

I've had issues taking CoQ10 and don't take it currently because it was making me feel worse (can't remember the particular symptom). I would also be careful with ALA if you have Amalgams or other mercury exposure.

 

[helen1]

Thanks, sregan. Actually yes, my urine would be yellow with the first pee with b2 then clear after that. Forgot about that. Interesting about the kidney flush theory. I was leaning more to the 'activating a system' theory, which suggests a supplement could activate one system and cause another to deregulate if it wasn't fully supported. But I don't really know. And what would be missing? Maybe I was taking everything needed but in the wrong quantity. I was taking everything freddd had suggested. But definitely not for long enough. And definitely not titrated up slowly. My plan now is to titrate up much more slowly, starting with adb12. And yes, I still have 7 amalgams, but was taking low doses of ALA.

 

[Freddd]

Hi Helen

Just a few notes to add. Be careful with b2. I would suggest that be no higher than 20mg daily since some of us experience extreme unbalanced response. For me however, the extreme urination occurred when I was loosing 85 pounds of water. The first days or week it stunk like a stagnant swamp as I was taking off pounds of water a day. That was highly desirable but also very difficult to maintain potassium in that period. I have also found CoQ10 to be a possible problem in the early days by raising blood pressure dramatically within a couple of hours of taking it. The AdoCbl AND MeCbl are both needed and my best suggestion is start small with both, going up to effectiveness turns on. If you don't get brightening and energizing by the time you get to a 1000mcg total sublingual dose, time to add methylfolate if you didn't also get that started slowly. The trick is to get methylation started, just enough, and then get the folate and potassium, and other things all balanced out. At this point I'm leaning strongly towards a low dose b-complex without folate and b12, and add small doses of additional nutrients. Getting the right balance, by careful titrations is important. It is quite complicated as each one affects all the others. Learning observation of the body is very important.

 

[Victronix]

Thanks Victronix. So you're saying plain exhaustion without the wiredness could still be hypokalemia, right? Would the symptoms for induced folate deficiency be the same?
As far as diabetes insipidus goes, I'm waiting for an aldosterone test result. What's the consensus on best tests for d. insipidus?

Yes, I got the exhaustion in a very extreme way without any wiredness at the start of when I took methylfolate. At that point, I backed off. Later I came back to it and after a few trials and errors I found a method I could tolerate, starting with a minescule dosage and then waiting for overwhelming type stuff to die down. It took about 2 weeks for the hypokalemia to start to calm down, but it still needs to be regularly addressed.

I hope your results go well! I don't have experience with diabetes, so can't recommend anything, but each piece of information can help.

 

[helen1]

Hi Helen

Just a few notes to add. Be careful with b2. I would suggest that be no higher than 20mg daily since some of us experience extreme unbalanced response. For me however, the extreme urination occurred when I was loosing 85 pounds of water. The first days or week it stunk like a stagnant swamp as I was taking off pounds of water a day. That was highly desirable but also very difficult to maintain potassium in that period. I have also found CoQ10 to be a possible problem in the early days by raising blood pressure dramatically within a couple of hours of taking it. The AdoCbl AND MeCbl are both needed and my best suggestion is start small with both, going up to effectiveness turns on. If you don't get brightening and energizing by the time you get to a 1000mcg total sublingual dose, time to add methylfolate if you didn't also get that started slowly. The trick is to get methylation started, just enough, and then get the folate and potassium, and other things all balanced out. At this point I'm leaning strongly towards a low dose b-complex without folate and b12, and add small doses of additional nutrients. Getting the right balance, by careful titrations is important. It is quite complicated as each one affects all the others. Learning observation of the body is very important.

So glad you responded, freddd and so pleased that this was exactly what I was thinking I need to do. Maybe because I've been reading your posts so much! I had already stopped with B complex like you and was taking individual Bs so I could control the amount and reactions. I think I'll go back to that. When would you add B1,2,3,5,6 if you were me?

 

[helen1]

Something I don't understand about potassium: I thought it had diuretic-like properties. If so, I'm confused about why it would work to take it when start-up begins especially for us excessive urinators? Wouldn't sodium be better?