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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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On Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Hot Chicks

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
UPDATE:

Saw my endocrinologist doctor today - just came back from the appointment. She thinks that the toxoplasmosis may very well be the root cause of my health issues. She ordered some additional blood tests (which I did right there at her clinic) and gave me a prescription for a head/neck MRI, which I'll have done next Thursday.

Waiting for my infectious disease specialist appointment tomorrow morning...

Things are moving, just the way I like it!
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
(I said "sedating antihistamines (the latter of which several people with ME, including me, find helpful...")

Indeed! This is exactly one reason why people with ME/CFS should be tested for Mast Cell Activation Disorders.

I guess it's possibly an indication of that. I had assumed that the benefits were just due to their anticholinergic activity: relaxing muscles, thus reducing tremor and tension, reducing anxiety/adrenaline symptoms and also reducing nausea. I don't seem to get any benefit from the non-sedating, non-anticholinergic antihistamines, although some people say they do.
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
I guess it's possibly an indication of that. I had assumed that the benefits were just due to their anticholinergic activity: relaxing muscles, thus reducing tremor and tension, reducing anxiety/adrenaline symptoms and also reducing nausea. I don't seem to get any benefit from the non-sedating, non-anticholinergic antihistamines, although some people say they do.
Well, nano says he is looking to enhance activity at the nAChR7. The anticholinergic effects of (some) antihistamines are anti-muscarinergic, rather than anti-nicotinergic, so this will have no effect on the matter at hand in any case.
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
I chew nicotine gum and wonder if it could create or exacerbate a leaky gut syndrome? (sp) Some days it really helps and others not so much.

Well, I don't know what the answer to your question is. However, here's some food for thought: cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway. Nicotine is known to have some anti-inflammatory properties and this might be the reason, via the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors.
 

OverTheHills

Senior Member
Messages
465
Location
New Zealand
Hi
I am thinking about trying a nicotine patch for improved (hopefully) mental focus/stamina. Does anyone know whether you know pretty quickly whether they are going to help/do nothing/give big side effects??? Like within a couple of days. I wouldn't want to get addicted to nicotine to no purpose.
Thanks
OTH
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
Hi
I am thinking about trying a nicotine patch for improved (hopefully) mental focus/stamina. Does anyone know whether you know pretty quickly whether they are going to help/do nothing/give big side effects??? Like within a couple of days. I wouldn't want to get addicted to nicotine to no purpose.
Thanks
OTH
It will work pretty quickly. Within an hour or so.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Well, nano says he is looking to enhance activity at the nAChR7. The anticholinergic effects of (some) antihistamines are anti-muscarinergic, rather than anti-nicotinergic, so this will have no effect on the matter at hand in any case.

Ah - had forgotten about the different receptor types and not realised that antihists were so specific.
 

OverTheHills

Senior Member
Messages
465
Location
New Zealand
Thanks Nano and Adreno, you handsome devils.
So looks like I can buy a small pack of patches for an experiment next weekend without fear of developing a drug habit. Goody good.
OTH
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
I miss nicotine patches. They did make me feel better!

I'm looking forward to the galantamine report too.
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
Thanks Nano and Adreno, you handsome devils.

Well, thank you! :)

So looks like I can buy a small pack of patches for an experiment next weekend without fear of developing a drug habit. Goody good.

As an aside, I have been taking Wellbutrin XL 300mg for roughly 6 months now. I stopped the nicotine patches for 2 weeks or so and I felt absolute no withdrawal symptoms! Wellbutrin is definitely a wonderful anti-addiction drug, among other things.
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
As an aside, I have been taking Wellbutrin XL 300mg for roughly 6 months now. I stopped the nicotine patches for 2 weeks or so and I felt absolute no withdrawal symptoms! Wellbutrin is definitely a wonderful anti-addiction drug, among other things.
Why would you use this, as it is a nicotinic antagonist? It even blocks nAChR7, albeit mildly:
In addition, bupropion blocks nicotine activation of alpha(3)beta(2), alpha(4)beta(2), and alpha(7) neuronal acetylcholine nicotinic receptors (nAChRs) with some degree of selectivity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10991997
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
UPDATE:

My appointment with the infectious disease specialist yesterday was essentially a disappointment. He apparently does everything based on "guidelines" and currently they say that "asymptomatic" toxoplasmosis causes no problems at all.

The problem with the current but outdated guidelines is that they ignore the last decade of research indicating that "asymptomatic" toxoplasmosis is far from harmless. "Asymptomatic" toxoplasmosis induces biochemical changes in the brain leading to diseases or disorders as "benign" as schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, increased suicidal risk, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, migraines and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Yeah, nothing to worry about!

The saving grace is that he is willing to point me in the direction of doctors that have a more aggressive attitude towards infectious agents so he's not a total loss!
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
Why would you use this, as it is a nicotinic antagonist? It even blocks nAChR7, albeit mildly: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10991997

Yes, you have a point and that question has indeed crossed my mind!

While I started taking Wellbutrin 6 or so months ago, I only found out about T. gondii a couple weeks ago. At this point, I don't want to be making too many changes as I'll have no way of knowing what the heck is working or not. I can tell you however that I lost some needed 30 pounds since starting Wellbutrin and this is not easy to discount. Once things stabilize, however, I will reevaluate the need for Wellbutrin. (Hopefully, galantamine will be able to punch through bupropion's blockade...)
 

mellster

Marco
Messages
805
Location
San Francisco
TG is known to cause chronic problems in some and also to cause long bouts (3+ months) of complete exhaustion and other symptoms. It's one of the pathogens tested for in the delayed Montoya study. It also can cause chronic lymphatic issues. Good find, hopefully it will resolve now.
 
Messages
1
man--where did he go?I just got on this forum.Anybody know about his central diabetes insipidus?he stopped talking about it.searching to see if his metabolic panels were normal.and how it could go undx'd. for so long.hope hes ok-over 2 yrs past.come back Nanonug!