G.I Results Panel

[Ben H]

Hi all,

Just posting my results like I said I would!

No bacteria/parasites. Quite a lot of gut inflammation...not massively far off moderate colitis so have been recommended glutamine (2x what I currently take),glucosomine and ox bile along with some others.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[Ben H]

Btw my nutritionist (who is extremely bright!) wanted to treat the Enterobacter cloacae and Streptococcus salivarius by supplementing a large amount of probiotics. No antibiotics or anything like that.

Thoughts on that anyone?

I am already taking 'billions' of probiotics with various strains in atm, hence the heavy growth of good bacteria found!

Ben

 

[sianrecovery]

I'm no expert Ben, but I did test with these guys too. Fab you dont have lots of nasties identified in terms of parasites - sometimes they dont show, so that's not an absolute, but its a good sign. Your IgA looks below the normal range, and you do seem to have some disturbance in your gut flora. Am I right in thinking quite alot of your symptoms are gastric? And you're working with a nutritionalist from OHC? I did their 90 day programme, but chose to work with Niki Gratrix for the nutrional side.
Getting the right diet for you and getting your gut right is a great place to start. Its not always clear cut in terms of whether probiotics and supplements help different individuals, but I have certainly found them useful at different points in my journey.
You're young, and you were fit to start with - and you're working with your body, rather than against it. Well done!

 

[sianrecovery]

Just saw your other post. I dont know is the short answer. Some probiotics have helped me, some have been ineffective, and some I think may have harmed. I guess its a case of what works for you.

 

[Ben H]

Hey Sian,

Some of my symptoms are gastric...which in term I *think* impairs my ability to absorb. (Inflammation will do that!!). I am working mainly on the assumption that healing my gut is the first step to healing in the sense that if I cant absorb the supplements then there is no point taking them!

Yes I am working with the OHC.

Off topic...what did you think of their 90 day programme?

 

[Ben H]

Thanks for the comments btw!

 

[rlc]

Hi Ben, the high levels of enterobacter cloacae and streptococcus salivarius may or may not be significant, I don’t know enough to advise you, most people have these bugs in there system, however both of them are capable of causing serious health problems see http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/216845-overview and http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/streptococcus-salivarius-eng.php

It is possible that these bugs, because of your run down condition are causing problems, but I can’t say for sure, these results might not mean anything.

Both of these bugs are treatable with antibiotics, but antibiotics will damage your other healthy gut flora, and you would need to take more probiotics after treatment.

I have read that herbs such as olive leaf are effective against enterobacter and streptococcus infections, so seeing a good herbalist could be an option.

Sorry ben, I just don’t know if these results are significant to your health problem, maybe you could get a second opinion from different doctor.

All the best

 

[Ben H]

Hey rlc,

thanks so much for your input, again

Feeling rough today but trying to stay positive.

My nutritionist says that they ARE significant, but the way to treat them is to basically metabolically 'suffocate' them (in so many words) with a saturation of very high strength (75 billion per capsule) probiotics. Compared to my 2billion I take a few time a day right now. I sometimes just wish I could be a bit more 'nuclear' with them though.......

I will take a look at Olive leaf, thanks rlc. On another note I have read that Garlic is specifically meant to help with these strains of negative gram bacteria. I am taking that fresh now!

Ben

 

[sianrecovery]

Hi Ben
I found olive leaf helpful, but had to had one of the liquid forms of it, the capsules didn't seem to do it. Will try and find name.
90 day programme....oo, now you're asking. Well - in retrospect, it did give me a boost, and a sense of hope at a time when I was really very ill. And learning skills to cope with long term illness is useful in ANY illness, and there were some good tools I took from it. It always makes sense for an MEer to learn how to calm down, and balance the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems.
On the other hand, I do think they mis-sell it. Both Alex and Anna got ill young, and made complete recoveries, by their account, and they fundamentally see the illness as about being about a way of being. I disagree - I have several conditions, both genetic and infective that have contributed to my problem, and all the 'stops' in the world wouldn't have made those conditions disappear. I think they pay lip service to the nutritional stuff, while really, they offer a psychological solution to what actually is a complex physical problem. In order to do that, I think they must wilfully blind themselves to the wealth of research literature on measurable abnormalities found in PWME.
If you already physically recovering, but stuck in fear based thinking that you needed to recover, maybe. For me, I wish I had the £600 back, and could now spend it on continuing to fund what I have actually needed to do to start to get better.
I think it all depends on what you are looking for. And you are young, and you did crash suddenly. What works for you is unlikely to be identical to what works for me.
What do you think?

 

[nanonug]

My nutritionist says that they ARE significant, but the way to treat them is to basically metabolically 'suffocate' them (in so many words) with a saturation of very high strength (75 billion per capsule) probiotics.

If you want to really suffocate them, have a look at VSL #3 - almost half a trillion viable buggers per packet!

 

[rlc]

Hi Ben, if there is a good herbalist near you they may be able to recommend a good mixture of herbs to nuke those bacteria, lots of herbs have been scientifically shown to have antibacterial activity, but my knowledge of which ones to use is quite limited. From what I know garlic is good, olive leaf extract I think will help, agree with sianrecovery that the liquid form is better, it seems stronger. Coconut oil is also supposed to be good at killing bacteria, plus lots of probiotics and hopefully dealing to those bacteria will allow you to recover, quickly.

All the best Ben

 

[Kati]

Hey Ben canyou tell us how much it cost you toget these tests done please?

 

[Ben H]

Guys you are so damn helpful.. Thankyou.

I will try a combination of the herbs and see what happens. Good job I like herbs and stuff

Kati: the test is expensive, around £230. I think it is cheaper on their website though-Red Apple clinic. I had the full G.I. Panel and am glad I did. Fortunately I have wonderful parents to help pay for this! It is worth it, as I know what exactly is going on in my G.I. Tract. But like the mitochondrial test for me-it may just be a confirmation of what you already suspect....

Sian: Thanks so much for your reply. I agree with you-I am not overly impressed with the clinic so far, but then I am kinda expecting! My nutritionist is great however. I just think their admin/turnaround times let them down.
Im glad you responded-On top of CFS i also have (clinical) OCD and anxiety so I know there are many mental aspects to this for me. But also physical from my mito test and G.I. Panel. I have the 'Gupta' method which I think is excellent, and I imagine the clinics psychology side to be like this. Stress brought the illness on for me, and while it is physical, I have to agree my emotional side doesnt help sometimes!

 

[Timaca]

Ben~ I would consider the possibility that your gut inflammation is coming from something that you are eating, and no matter how many supplements you take you won't get to the root of the problem (the true cause of the inflammation and gastritis).

I would suggest reading these the two books listed on the resources page of my blog (scroll down to the food intolerance section): http://tinascocina.com/resources/ Those books may offer some helpful suggestions for you. They have been very helpful for me.

I do think that I have chronic pathogens that initially set off my CFS. Now I am thinking that those pathogens have caused food intolerance in me. I've been on an elimination diet since December 1st and slowly been trying to add food back in. Several foods (that I was eating all the time before) gave me significant grief as I tried to add them back into my diet.

Good luck,
Best,

 

[sianrecovery]

Totally Ben - its a complex mix of mental, emotional and physical stressors - in the UK we get a bit defensive about all that because of the heavy slant toward CBT in the NHS. I know for me, being a highly motivated stress head, with a great sense of over-responsibility, didn't help, and I had to change a lot of patterns. My brother is OCD, so I do know what a drain that can be.
There are a few threads on OHC here - if you search they will come up (probably, crap search engine). Most are not complimentary - but what counts is YOUR experience, and what works for you.

 

[Ben H]

@Timiaca

Hello! Thanks for your reply. The G.I. Panel came back and my gut response to the typical gluten, lactose was negative. However I do know that my immune system may still be reacting! I will look at the books-thanks for the suggestions.

Sian

Yup totally. Don't get me started on Doctors over here...'just rest' etc...! I will have a look at the OHC threads. In my opinion, the stressors started it all which lead to physical reactions on a celuular level in my body. Why its taken its time to get better (or not even that at the moment) I am not sure.....

 

[sianrecovery]

Did you ask why the ox bile?

Candace Pert wrote a book called Molecules of Emotion in which she goes on a fair bit about the gutbrain - she's a scientist, one of the first to outline the work of endorphins in the brain. Its a long time since I read it, but I remember enjoying it.
The big thing Ben - stay hopeful, remain patient.
Are you of Welsh descent? I have a Howell side to my family. My mother was a Howell from Pembrokeshire.

 

[sianrecovery]

hey Ben - dannybex posted a website one of his friends who is in remission has, which has loads of good gut info on -

cfsremission.wordpress.com

Sarah Myhill also has lots of good gut related stuff on her site - just type in drmyhill and search thru the topics. And Niki Gratrix, who's website I think is nikigratrix.com, could be wrong.

Ok - I'm stopping now - you have enough to be going on with. The other ME survival trick is not to let it eat up all your time and thinking - try and maintain as much stuff outside it as you can. Easier said than done, I know.

 

[MeSci]

Maybe check out one of the 'leaky gut' threads. There is evidence that people with ME tend to have abnormal carbohydrate metabolism and do better on a low-carb diet. There is also evidence that leaky gut may be involved in causing and perpetuating the autoimmunity behind ME.

 

[MeSci]

I was a bit surprised to see the statement in your test results that gliadin was found in oats. To my knowledge the analogous protein in oats is avenin. Some coeliacs are sensitive to avenin as well as gliadin, and some non-coeliacs may be too (I think I may be).

Anyway, I just found this interesting paper that found a reaction to gliadin in both coeliacs and non-coeliacs:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1954879/

It refers to interleukin-15 being involved, although a quick search of ME Research UK's abstracts from 1956-2011 only found one study looking at IL-15, and that one found lower levels in ME/CFS.