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Wessely in news again

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
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Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21790348

'Violence risk' after military tours

By James Gallagher Health and science reporter, BBC News
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Lewis McKay, 26, on how post-traumatic stress disorder affected him and his family

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Younger members of the armed forces returning from duty are more likely to commit violent offences than the rest of the population, a study suggests.

Researchers analysed data from nearly 14,000 UK service personnel who had served in wars in Iraq or Afghanistan.

They highlighted a particular issue in younger men and those who had combat roles or had a traumatic experience.

The results in the Lancet medical journal come 10 years after the start of the war in Iraq.

The Ministry of Defence, which funded the study, said it was committed to improving services and trying to break the stigma around mental health by getting people in the armed forces and veterans to talk about their problems.

The report showed that overall criminal activity was slightly lower in military personnel than in people of the same age in the wider population. Some 94% of men returning from combat zones will not offend.

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“Start Quote

The military don't select chess-playing choir boys”​
End Quote Prof Simon Wessely King's College London

However, the researchers found violent offending was higher within members of the armed services and there was a "stark" difference in men aged under 30.

Just over 20% of the 2,728 young men followed had committed a violent offence, compared with 6.7% of young men outside the military.

Most violent offences were assaults.

Being in the junior ranks, deployment in a combat role and experiencing traumatic events, such as being shot at, were all linked to an increased risk of violence when service personnel returned from duty.
'Choir boys'
Alcohol abuse and post-traumatic stress disorder were also closely associated with violent behaviour.

The researchers did adjust their analysis to account for the backgrounds of those studied - those with a greater tendency towards violence may be more inclined to choose combat roles.

Prof Simon Wessely, from King's College London, told the BBC: "Those who are in combat roles are themselves slightly different from those who are not.

"The military don't select chess-playing choir boys. They select people who often come from difficult and aggressive backgrounds and they're the ones who are most likely to end up in the parts of the military that do the actual fighting.

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Analysis

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Jonathan Beale Defence correspondent, BBC News
Research into the effects of combat and deployment on the mental health of the military is still in its infancy.
But there's already plenty of evidence to give cause for concern.
It's more obvious in the United States where rates of post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, among those who've fought in Iraq and Afghanistan has reached as high as 15%.
There's also been a surge in suicides among American troops - reaching a rate of one a day in 2012.
Here in the UK the figures are much lower. Rates of PTSD have been reported at about 4%. But there's other research that suggests levels of alcohol misuse are higher in the military. And now this study by King's College London suggests higher rates of violent offending too.
As always with ongoing research, it's difficult to draw hard conclusions. But one thing is clear - the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will be felt for many years to come.

"The biggest single risk factor is those who previously had violent offending before they joined up, but there is still an impact of combat, mediated partly through excessive drinking and partly through developing post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and mental health problems as a result of combat."

He added that the reluctance of young men to admit they may not be coping is the "biggest single obstacle" to tackling the problem.
'Body and mind'
Lewis McKay, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, said his character changed from "laid-back" to "aggressive" after he returned from Afghanistan.

"Nothing will ever prepare you for what you physically see or physically do in Afghanistan... there is only so much that anyone's body and mind can take.

"My wife didn't exist to me... I felt a lot of anger towards her and I came very, very close to hitting her.

"Instead I was walking out the door and punching holes in doors and windows... I had flashbacks. A car door slam would be enough to make me drop to the ground."

The 26-year-old added that until soldiers receive help, problems such as PTSD will continue to manifest. He now works as a security guard at a BBC building.

Surgeon Capt John Sharpley, a Ministry of Defence mental healthcare expert, agreed that getting young soldiers to ask for help was a "major issue".

"Stigma is a really big problem. The study shows there is a link between mental health symptoms and violent offending.

"It is not possible to train yourself for something that is traumatic, which by definition is something outside one's experience.

"We do a lot [at the MoD], but we're always going to be in a situation when we need to do more."

A spokesman for the MoD said: "We are committed to supporting members of our armed forces, and their families, as they return to civilian life post-deployment.

"This report recognises that the vast majority of service personnel make this adjustment successfully and are not more likely to commit a violent offence post-deployment - there is only an increased risk of 2% when compared to the general population.

"However, any violent offence is unacceptable and will not be tolerated by our armed forces."

The Royal British Legion said: "The vast majority of ex-service personnel go on to live successful and law-abiding lives. However, inevitably, and for a variety of reasons, a small number experience difficulties."

how does that square with is previous work saying there was no unusual amounts of PTSD etc in Afghanistna veterans, eh?! i do NOT bloody believe we have somehow got miraculously lower rates of PTSD than the Americans, lower perhaps ebcause of differing methods, culture etc, but not *that* amazingly lower. it stinks.

and the military weeds out psychos etc.
 

SOC

Senior Member
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The military don't select chess-playing choir boys. They select people who often come from difficult and aggressive backgrounds and they're the ones who are most likely to end up in the parts of the military that do the actual fighting.
Oh really? Does the UK military actually select people for service? Is that a special job in the military -- to go out into the streets and "select people who often come from difficult and aggressive backgrounds" to force into the military? Do they prowl the local lockups looking for people to "select"?

Does this sound bizarre to anyone else? Now Wesseley has offended the many honorable service people throughout the world.
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
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828
Location
Manchester UK
I've worked with people with PTSD from combat. To have them insulted by The Weasel - because that is what his remarks amount to - just makes me want to punch something. Hard.
But I'm late for choir practice.....better put the chess set down.
He really is a middle-class prick. Only in the frigging UK could you get away with such obvious snobbery under the guise of expert opinion.
 

heapsreal

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10,089
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australia (brisbane)
if he's worried about death threats from people who dont have the energy to hold a gun, then he better watch what he says to people that do know how to use one effectively??
I think he likes to be controversial because it puts him up in the bright lights but he's getting close to looking like a deer staring into the car headlights of late.

He did make a statement once about being around cfs patients/death threats etc and feeling safer in afghanistan, well that might be changing. ;)
 

Enid

Senior Member
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3,309
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UK
I think he needs the limelight and will do it any whichway he can, especially in an area (psyche) which cannot be scientifically proven - a safe position in which to come up with controversial ideas.
 

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
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Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
yeah I think he's a narcissist who's desperate for attention, and isntead of just, oh, yakking on a forum :whistle: actively screws folk up ;)

SOC, Sian
yeah what that scumbag doesn't get is that many folk form *poor and thus often screw up backgrounds* jointhe military because they do not have all the wonderful life choices HE EFFING HAD! :mad:

I'm no hard ass I don't wanna hurt folk, but there were no jobs, no chance for higher education, so went to join up for the Engineers or REME, I like fixing/making/helping, but was born with twisted legs, can't run no matter how I tried/trained ("shin splints", muscles tear off the bone)
so humiliating, sigh, pals tried for Marine Commandos but they we're way choosy as so many applicants and thus they weren't taken in.
ah well maybe just as well in the end (and well yeah my pals are, or were kinda rough :p but they're genuinely decent people or they wouldn't be my pals, huge difference).

anyone who WANTS ot fight is a gawd damn nutjob. Not running away when you have good reason to make a stand is entirely another matter.

most of the special forces have way high percentages of Scots even though we're only 10% of the UK's population, not because we're were psychos but because we do not have the choices/wealth etc. 25% of the UK's casualties in WW2 were Scots.
and as said the military actively screens OUT folk with mental problems, last thing you want is a psychopath with a machine gun or worse...
 

vamah

Senior Member
Messages
593
Location
Washington , DC area
[quote="sianrecovery, post: 341514, member: 4633 Only in the frigging UK could you get away with such obvious snobbery under the guise of expert opinion.[/quote]

As if! Happens in the US all the time also. :)
 

jimells

Senior Member
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2,009
Location
northern Maine
... the reluctance of young men to admit they may not be coping is the "biggest single obstacle" to tackling the problem.

No. This is wrong. The biggest obstacle is the refusal of the US to end its attempt to dominate the world through violence. The basic US policy, both foreign and domestic, is Obey or Die, Work or Starve.

If people around the world would just stop resisting our diktats, we wouldn't have to kill them and wreck stuff. So really it's the fault of Afghans and Iraqis that our young people come home damaged. It's most certainly not the fault of Our Dear Leaders who send them around the world to kill and be killed - Our Leaders are just carrying out the Will of God, who so obviously put us in charge, because We're Number One!!
 

SilverbladeTE

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Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
Jimells
Britain's demand for power & dominance had a very large part in triggering WW1 and 2.
Cenotaphs and ceremonies are dirt cheap and great photo opoortunities versus carign for injured blech! :/
or you know,active beneficial co-operation/trade rather than war.
Stable democracies do not pose terrorist etc threats, but they are "Not wanted" because they are a rival to dominance so we get "pretend" bullcrap "democracies" being supported which are nothing but.
To achieve true democracy you need a large Middle Class. Democracy is the enemy of the elite, they want no changes, they want to "fossilize" the system so they and they alone control it...and so, they wreck health, education wages etc so the Middle Class gets wiped out eventually...or become Elites

becomes a sick madness of demand to control and it ALWAYs explodes in your face: Rome; Czarist Russia; Soviet Russia; Britain, Imperial China, Imperial Japan etc etc
Our leaders have the media in the palm of their handers spooning out their crap, it's NOT "left o r right" it's about "the ones in charge pulling the strings".

Folk with ME, GWS etc show there's some seriosu problems, we're creating too many sick people, probably due to organopshopshates and vaccines...but they cannnot admit they are dangerous because they are lynchpins of the huge chemical/pharma power base. And the insurance ocmpanies don't want ot pay out anyone, ever. Governments have got liability for vaccines and many ministers when leaving office walk right into a job with the pharma and/or chemcial companies!
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
Bloody hell Silverblade, the shame....I don't know what 'SOC' stands for. Put me out of my misery!

Yes - UK gov a long history of sending working class soliders to forge an empire and fight wars and forgetting them when they come home.

I don't know if I can get away with writing this to you - but I'm Welsh, and we love a good scrap. All the men I grew up could tell proud tales about the police they'd decked and how they could drink anyone else under the table. I thought you guys were kinda of like that, but more so?

Doesnt mean we deserve to be patronised by The Weasel though!!!
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
wow - I could just do what everyone else does at this point, and plead brainfog. Or I could admit defeat, and say...that was dumb of me....:ill:. Or use my first ever emoticon.

And Silverblade, I do understand the Scots are not one unitary mass. Some of you live in Edinburgh, just like some of us live in Cardiff. ;) Christ, this emoticon things a slippery slope eh?
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
wow - I could just do what everyone else does at this point, and plead brainfog. Or I could admit defeat, and say...that was dumb of me....:ill:. Or use my first ever emoticon.

And Silverblade, I do understand the Scots are not one unitary mass. Some of you live in Edinburgh, just like some of us live in Cardiff. ;) Christ, this emoticon things a slippery slope eh?

I'd go with the brainfog, myself. ;) And yes, emoticons are a slippery slope. For those of us who use a lot of facial expression and gestures in our communication, it can add clarity to our written conversation. However, like expansive arm gestures, it's easy to loose control of them. :):eek::redface::rolleyes:
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
Metaphorically, at this moment, and I speak as a woman who hasnt had a drink for 16 years, I am slinging an arm around your shoulder, stumbling slightly, and saying, "You and me, mate, you and me, against the world....."

sound familar? The other version is "Come over here and say that you ----- , Wesley, and then we'll see about your chess playing abilities..."

oops - forgot emoticon - :mad: