Choline and DMG + BHMT vs Methionine Synthase Pathway

[kposs]

I understand from Yasko that choline and TMG promote the BHMT pathway and when your cellular levels of Folate, B12 and cofactors are sufficient that DMG slows the BHMT pathway and encourages the methionine synthase pathway which increases glutathione.

My goal is to increase my glutathione levels, so after a couple months of Folate, MB12, AB12 & Cofactors, I added DMG. Great results from the DMG - more energy and feeling better overall. I had previously tried TMG and did not have any noticeable effects. However, for whatever reason (pcos, general imbalances, who knows), I cannot keep my appetite under control unless I take choline. Without choline, I never feel satiated or full no matter what I have eaten (my diet is very clean Paleo).

I currently take about 3 grams of choline per day (1 g before each meal) and I take 1000 mg of DMG (500 mg twice a day) which gives me good results with my energy.

I wonder if the 3g of choline vs the 1g of DMG is overdriving the BHMT pathway? Can't find any information what what dosage of DMG is needed to encourage the methionine synthase pathway over the BHMT pathway. Anyone have a clue about this?

 

[Lotus97]

I understand from Yasko that choline and TMG promote the BHMT pathway and when your cellular levels of Folate, B12 and cofactors are sufficient that DMG slows the BHMT pathway and encourages the methionine synthase pathway which increases glutathione.

My goal is to increase my glutathione levels, so after a couple months of Folate, MB12, AB12 & Cofactors, I added DMG. Great results from the DMG - more energy and feeling better overall. I had previously tried TMG and did not have any noticeable effects. However, for whatever reason (pcos, general imbalances, who knows), I cannot keep my appetite under control unless I take choline. Without choline, I never feel satiated or full no matter what I have eaten (my diet is very clean Paleo).

I currently take about 3 grams of choline per day (1 g before each meal) and I take 1000 mg of DMG (500 mg twice a day) which gives me good results with my energy.

I wonder if the 3g of choline vs the 1g of DMG is overdriving the BHMT pathway? Can't find any information what what dosage of DMG is needed to encourage the methionine synthase pathway over the BHMT pathway. Anyone have a clue about this?

Rich posted a lengthy answer about DMG in this thread:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nd-the-simplified-methylation-protocol.15385/

 

[kposs]

Thanks Lotus97. I think I read every thread on the internet about DMG

Just an update with my solution. I dropped the Choline and Inositol and switched to high dose chromium polynicotinate to help with the appetite control/carb & sugar cravings (3 to 5 mcg per pound of body weight). It's working great so far.

I also plan to then lower my dose of DMG back to 500 since I no longer need to try and 'offset' the choline.

This should finally encourage the methionine synthase pathway and increase my glutathione. I recently read that one of the characteristics of PCOS is decreased glutathione, so that is definitely what I need.

 

[Lotus97]

I'm actually planning on adding choline mainly to help my cognitive function and hopefully help with anxiety (although it has the opposite effect on some people). I had bought DMG partially because it was supposed to be good for the immune system. I haven't been using it because I wasn't sure what to expect from it, but now I might need it to offset the choline. I haven't really been able to find much about DMG other than what I posted.

 

[kposs]

When I started using DMG, I got a nice energy boost - the most noticeable change I had so far. I could tell a major difference the first day that I took it. And it was sustained. When I started the Active B12 and MethylFolate, I had alot of energy the first day, but it gradually decreased even while upping the amount of the B12 and MethylFolate.

I also got the weird smell in urine when starting DMG which Rich described as probably due to raising glutathione levels and detoxing. That lasted several weeks and I still get it periodically.

 

[Marcus2013]

When I started using DMG, I got a nice energy boost - the most noticeable change I had so far. I could tell a major difference the first day that I took it. And it was sustained. When I started the Active B12 and MethylFolate, I had alot of energy the first day, but it gradually decreased even while upping the amount of the B12 and MethylFolate.

I also got the weird smell in urine when starting DMG which Rich described as probably due to raising glutathione levels and detoxing. That lasted several weeks and I still get it periodically.

Hi kposs,

So actually you are only taking the DMG + Chromium piccolinate ?

Is it working for you ?

 

[Lotus97]

kposs
When you said you're taking "cofactors" does that mean all the supplements in Freddd's protocol? A lot of those supplements improve mitochondrial function and the Krebs Cycle which will help a lot with Glutathione production. Also, if you're taking Alpha Lipoic Acid you should be taking extra biotin because ALA depletes your body of biotin. Biotin is important for a lot of things including Krebs and energy production and also glucose levels.

Biotin assists in the metabolism of carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Biotin, as a coenzyme, is involved in energy production. It is one of the agents that converts food into energy by facilitating the metabolism of fats and carbohydrates into glucose, and breaking down of proteins into amino acids.
Due to its role in glucose production, biotin has an effect in the amount of sugar in the blood. Levels of biotin are said to be indirectly proportional to sugar level; high levels of biotin lowers blood sugar levels and vice versa. Biotin supplementation is one of the recommended treatments for people who suffer from diabetes.

 

[kposs]

I actually take many vitamins and minerals each after specific research and geared toward my specific health issues (mostly inflammation - I do not have diagnosed CFS). I take a very small amount of ALA with my carnitine (100 mg). I do not take more because of low thyroid (high dose ALA can significantly slow down the T4 to T3 conversion), but I do take extra biotin as well.

 

[triffid113]

I understand from Yasko that choline and TMG promote the BHMT pathway and when your cellular levels of Folate, B12 and cofactors are sufficient that DMG slows the BHMT pathway and encourages the methionine synthase pathway which increases glutathione.

My goal is to increase my glutathione levels, so after a couple months of Folate, MB12, AB12 & Cofactors, I added DMG. Great results from the DMG - more energy and feeling better overall. I had previously tried TMG and did not have any noticeable effects. However, for whatever reason (pcos, general imbalances, who knows), I cannot keep my appetite under control unless I take choline. Without choline, I never feel satiated or full no matter what I have eaten (my diet is very clean Paleo).

I currently take about 3 grams of choline per day (1 g before each meal) and I take 1000 mg of DMG (500 mg twice a day) which gives me good results with my energy.

I wonder if the 3g of choline vs the 1g of DMG is overdriving the BHMT pathway? Can't find any information what what dosage of DMG is needed to encourage the methionine synthase pathway over the BHMT pathway. Anyone have a clue about this?

This is interesting. I never heard of a tie between choline levels and satiety. 3 g./day! I wonder if you have this genetic defect? MTHFR 1598. There is anways a new one, sigh.

Genetic variation of folate-mediated one-carbon transfer pathway predicts susceptibility to choline deficiency in humans

1. Martin Kohlmeier,
2. Kerry-Ann da Costa,
3. Leslie M. Fischer, and
4. Steven H. Zeisel*

Author Affiliations

1. Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health and School of Medicine, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599

1. Edited by Bruce N. Ames, University of California, Berkeley, CA (received for review May 25, 2005)

Abstract

Choline is a required nutrient, and some humans deplete quickly when fed a low-choline diet, whereas others do not. Endogenous choline synthesis can spare some of the dietary requirement and requires one-carbon groups derived from folate metabolism. We examined whether major genetic variants of folate metabolism modify susceptibility of humans to choline deficiency. Fifty-four adult men and women were fed diets containing adequate choline and folate, followed by a diet containing almost no choline, with or without added folate, until they were clinically judged to be choline-deficient, or for up to 42 days. Criteria for clinical choline deficiency were a more than five times increase in serum creatine kinase activity or a >28% increase of liver fat after consuming the low-choline diet that resolved when choline was returned to the diet. Choline deficiency was observed in more than half of the participants, usually within less than a month. Individuals who were carriers of the very common 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate dehydrogenase-1958A gene allele were more likely than noncarriers to develop signs of choline deficiency (odds ratio, 7.0; 95% confidence interval, 2.0-25; P < 0.01) on the low-choline diet unless they were also treated with a folic acid supplement. The effects of the C677T and A1298C polymorphisms of the 5,10-methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase gene and the A80C polymorphism of the reduced folate carrier 1 gene were not statistically significant. The most remarkable finding was the strong association in premenopausal women of the 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate dehydrogenase-1958A gene allele polymorphism with 15 times increased susceptibility to developing organ dysfunction on a low-choline diet.

 

[triffid113]

Apparently rye bread increases satiety and glucose tolerance as well:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf2019825
Postprandial Glycemia, Insulinemia, and Satiety Responses in Healthy Subjects after Whole Grain Rye Bread Made from Different Rye Varieties.

 

[triffid113]

Thanks Lotus97. I think I read every thread on the internet about DMG

Just an update with my solution. I dropped the Choline and Inositol and switched to high dose chromium polynicotinate to help with the appetite control/carb & sugar cravings (3 to 5 mcg per pound of body weight). It's working great so far.

I also plan to then lower my dose of DMG back to 500 since I no longer need to try and 'offset' the choline.

This should finally encourage the methionine synthase pathway and increase my glutathione. I recently read that one of the characteristics of PCOS is decreased glutathione, so that is definitely what I need.

500mg after reading this article: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005...earch&key="Braverman" "weight loss" "chromium" (I could not find a 1g dose and since the one I have is 500mg, I tend to take that to make the bottle last longer. I meant to take the 1000mg but I never did).

 

[Lotus97]

500mg after reading this article: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/nov2005_ch_01.htm?source=search&key="Braverman" "weight loss" "chromium" (I could not find a 1g dose and since the one I have is 500mg, I tend to take that to make the bottle last longer. I meant to take the 1000mg but I never did).

So you haven't found chromium to cause low blood sugar for you? I was curious because you said you had a strong reaction to Alpha Lipoic Acid.

 

[triffid113]

So you haven't found chromium to cause low blood sugar for you? I was curious because you said you had a strong reaction to Alpha Lipoic Acid.

No. I haven't actually measured. I am just saying it has not caused a low blood sugar attack. If it lowered my blood sugar short of an attack I wouldn't know. I have an excellent A1C but I have high postprandial blood sugar. (like 140, if I drink Pop, which I don't - it goes to 250)