CFS = Immune Dysfunction?

[Hip]

Confused.....has Th-17 been found to be decreased or increased in those with CFS/ME in more studies? I looked into Th-17 awhile ago, and my brain isn't remembering what I learned. :thumbdown:

I thought Th-17 levels from my lack of effective memory, were raised, in which correlates with the epithelial and mucosal problems common in CFS/ME? And with my learning endeavors into interferon and its relation, deletion of interferon genes, would then affect the level of Th1 T cells, and initiate a Th2 dominance and a lack of control of the Th17???

I have just had a quick Google, and this study found that the Th17 cytokines IL-17 and IL-23 were unchanged (normal) in (female) ME/CFS patients, so there may not be much consistency in these results from one study to the next.

My understanding is that the Th17 immune response is a rather specialized one, that only comes into play to fight off a small subset of pathogens, which include Staphylococcus aureus and Candida albicans. So perhaps only ME/CFS patients that have co-infections with these specific pathogens will have raised Th17?

Raised Th17 does compromise both intestinal and blood-brain barrier integrity, so lowering Th17 with N-acetylglucosamine may help repair these barriers.

 

[LaurieL]

I have low (10-25%) IL-17 and very low (<10%) IL-23 which certainly suggests ROR gamma T (whatever that is) deficiency. Now if only I had a clue what that means for me in terms of health, treatment, or anything useful. **sigh**

This is interesting.....in some of my learning from the Autism treatments, they talk about poorly sulfated GAG's in which robs the ability of these to resist infection. Those with chronic infections have an accelerated turnover rate of the GAG's. They mention the natural form of vitamin A (the cis form) is important for the formation of T and B cells for long term immune memory to develop and it is also needed for NK cells. Cis vitamin A can bypass blocked G-protein pathways and turn on central retinoid receptors. Which ROR gamma is apart of.

The gut sheds sulfated GAG's (glucosaminoglycans) during inflammation and leads to leaky gut and excess opiod problems....

So perhaps cis form Vitamin A might be beneficial?

 

[SOC]

I have just had a quick Google, and this study found that the Th17 cytokines IL-17 and IL-23 were unchanged (normal) in (female) ME/CFS patients, so there may not be much consistency in these results from one study to the next.

No I'm really mind-boggled. My test results are so different from the ones in the referenced study it's almost laughable. Most of the cytokines that were abnormal in the ME/CFS patients in the study are normal in me and most that were normal in ME/CFS patients are abnormal in me.

If those cytokine abnormalities were used as biomarkers, I wouldn't be diagnosed with ME/CFS. There's an interesting thought.

 

[SOC]

So perhaps cis form Vitamin A might be beneficial?

Can't hurt and certainly worth a try. Thanks!

 

[LaurieL]

http://www.nature.com/nri/journal/v8/n9/fig_tab/nri2378_F3.html

...Moreover, retinoic acid blocks the differentiation of T helper 17 (TH17) cells...

...retinoic acid might contribute directly to the differentiation of T-cell-independent (and probably also T-cell-dependent) IgA+ ASCs. In addition, retinoic acid might contribute indirectly to T-cell-dependent and -independent IgA responses by inducing iNOS expression....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003750/

...Members of the nuclear receptor (NR) superfamily display a conserved domain structure with highly conserved DNA-binding and ligand-binding domains. Members of this family include the receptors for the steroid hormone, thyroid hormone as well as for bile acids and oxysterols. Although many of the 48 NRs found in the human are characterized as ligand activated transcription factors, a significant number of these proteins still have uncharacterized ligands. The retinoic acid receptor-related orphan receptors α and γ (RORα and RORγ) are two of these orphan receptors that have been demonstrated to play important roles in regulation of metabolism and immune function (1, 2)....

... RORγ has been shown to be involved in development of Th17 cells that are implicated in autoimmune diseases and loss of RORγ yields animals that are resistant to development of these diseases (9, 10)....

So perhaps the cis form of Vitamin A might or might not beneficial, depending on where one sits with Th17?

 

[Hip]

I find vitamin A quite beneficial for my ADHD-like symptoms, and it also reduces my sinus inflammation. I take 25,000 IU of natural vitamin A daily for this purpose (it's Now® vitamin A derived from fish liver oil).

 

[LaurieL]

I found it beneficial as well, I take mine in Cod Liver Oil cap's from Kirkman Lab's. I also take EPO to address those intestinal GAG's.

 

[SOC]

So perhaps cis form Vitamin A might be beneficial?

So any idea where to find cis form vitamin A? My basic search didn't find any obvious products. Does one just take cod liver oil?

 

[LaurieL]

The cis form is found in Cod liver oil. Through my research into the Autism forums, they recommended Kirkman labs as being unadulterated, and no contaminents consistently found in their product. I guess quite a few products out there, Cod Liver oil, are adulterated with the synthetic form of vitamin A, and those are the forms that shut down the GAG's and retinoic receptors. So I stopped my vitamin A supplement and went to this one. It is amazingly cheaper than what I was paying for the vitamin A. It has 250 capsules for about 20 bucks. Considering other Cod Liver supps, I didn't think that was too bad.

 

[Seven7]

Soc If I remember right there was some relationship w IL-17 and leaky gut and Food Allergies.

So for you you have to work on your leaky gut!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2898551/
http://www.prohealth.com/me-cfs/blog/boardDetail.cfm?id=1314413