Nitric Oxide and Neo40(R)

[AFCFS]

Others have mentioned Nitric Oxide (NO) it in various capacities about the forums. I ordered some Neo40(R) based on my doctor’s advice. He suggested it after identifying a tiny speck of plaque in one of the heart vessels (not sure which one), to supposedly help blood flow and I also have been presenting brain fog since I have seen him. I researched it, from the Neo40(R) site and other places. To me, it comes across as a miracle-type product - for many things, while at the same time claiming not to be a miracle supplement, just capable of delivering good results.

And as I had seemed to have a bit of uptick in cognition or cognitive clarity while being driven home, after my doc had given me one in the office, I was excited to try it out. I had ordered it with the Nitric Oxide Diagnostics™ Test Strips, as I wanted to get a baseline and be able to determine any progress. Ultimately, I had hoped that I could get my NO to a good level from food and also have the test strips be a gauge for that.

So, I did the test strip this morning – no eating for about the last 15 hours, as is usual for me in the AM (have early dinner), no water, just put saliva on the strip as indicated. Had not had but the one Neo40(R) in the doctor’s office over a week ago.

The test strips are color-coded pink in three sections: light pink (Depleted - Nitric Oxide Restoration Suggested), medium pink (Low – Nitric Oxide Restoration Suggested) and dark pink (Normal – Ideal Ongoing Level). So, according to the test strip, my NO looked somewhere between medium and normal. It seemed to darken a bit after it dried some.

I took a Neo40(R) and did feel something in an hour or so. It was not bad, maybe a little clarity, not sure. You ultimately want that click, like a light bulb, from “black to white,” but it seems the journey is through a 1000 shades of grey, and trying to differentiate the sensations in common words is often difficult. I also felt a little tired/sleepy, like I could take a nap, which I seldom do during the day.

A family member – much older, but much more active than me also used a test strip and had between a depleted and low reading on the color code. They also took a Neo40(R). They did not feel anything, except a little tired/nappy in a couple hours. I had not mentioned anything to them of feeling tired, and about 95% of the time I am in bed, so it is not as if there was any suggestibility.

The Neogenis site has an FAQ: Is it possible to have too much Nitric Oxide?

Yes. Too much Nitric Oxide is associated with headaches, dizziness and low blood pressure. However, Neo40® Daily is a proprietary blend that supplies the essential nutrients and building blocks necessary for the body to naturally produce its own Nitric Oxide and restore healthy levels for each individual. Two lozenges is roughly the equivalent of eating a spinach salad when you were younger and your body was able to create its own Nitric Oxide.

So, I am not sure, but I believe lowered blood pressure may cause tiredness/sleepy feeling. But then, it was a first dose, so “newness to the body” may have had something to do with it. In any event, I would not expect to be able to walk on water after a single dose. On the other hand I do not feel like "be-bopping" around on the beach (picture 4 on the Neogenis site), although I might be inclined to take a nap in a beach chair. Will let it play out and see if can notice anything substantial.

Test strip pics attached (left is mine, right is family member - both as noted above):

 

[AFCFS]

After taking this since 11/22/12, I am going to discontinue any continuous use. I would say there was a very slight perking effect - perhaps a very slight transitory cognitive bump, but that was about it. If attributable to Neo40(R) at all then not lasting in any case. I was going to finish out the pack, but also noticed there seemed to be some photo-sensitivity issues or eye pressure issues. It was hard to tell exactly what was going but my eyes would squint and advert from a bright computer screen at night, as well as a LCD TV screen. I would have to avert my eyes and either close them and/or shield them from light to avoid the discomfort. Discontinuing for a few days brought relief, and then continuing brought the same effect. For whatever reason, the test strips seemed to show a lower level of NO (slighter shade of pink) than when had initially tested. For me, like many things, tried and apparently not worth keeping around.

 

[Sushi]

AFCFS

Are you familiar with Dr. Martin Pall's theories and protocols around Nitric Oxide?

So I proposed that nitric oxide is likely to have a role in the initiation of chronic illness

.

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=12896

He has a very interesting book on it.

Explaining 'Unexplained Illnesses': Disease Paradigm for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Fibromyalgia, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Gulf War Syndrome and Others.*

He is a biochemist and himself had ME/CFS.

On the other hand, Dr. Julian Stewart who treats dysautonomia often finds that increasing nitric oxide helps his patients.

http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=22

Sushi

 

[AFCFS]

Sushi

Thanks for posting this. It is very interesting - and gets very complicated. I think, like most of us, we would prefer an easy to digest bit of information: NO = Good or NO = Bad.

But instead we get something like this - below - thumbnail/image attached - from the article linked above, http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=12896.

I find it even more interesting as I am scheduled for a tilt table test later this week after two docs suspected POTS. And then a quick read of this abstract just makes me go hmm.....

Cutaneous neuronal nitric oxide is specifically decreased in postural tachycardia syndrome.
Stewart JM, Medow MS, Minson CT, Taneja I.
Source

The Center for Pediatric Hypotension, New York Medical College, Ste. 3050, 19 Bradhurst Ave., Hawthorne, NY 10532, USA. stewart@nymc.edu
Abstract

Low flow postural tachycardia syndrome (POTS), is associated with reduced nitric oxide (NO) activity assumed to be of endothelial origin. We tested the hypothesis that cutaneous microvascular neuronal NO (nNO) is impaired, rather than endothelial NO (eNO), in POTS. We performed three sets of experiments on subjects aged 22.5 +/- 2 yr. We used laser-Doppler flowmetry response to sequentially increase acetylcholine (ACh) doses and the local cutaneous heating response of the calf as bioassays for NO. During local heating we showed that when the selective neuronal nNO synthase (nNOS) inhibitor N(omega)-nitro-L-arginine-2,4-L-diaminobutyric amide (N(omega), 10 mM) was delivered by intradermal microdialysis, cutaneous vascular conductance (CVC) decreased by an amount equivalent to the largest reduction produced by the nonselective NO synthase (NOS) inhibitor nitro-L-arginine (NLA, 10 mM). We demonstrated that the response to ACh was minimally attenuated by nNOS blockade using N(omega) but markedly attenuated by NLA, indicating that eNO largely comprises the receptor-mediated NO release by ACh. We further demonstrated that the ACh dose response was minimally reduced, whereas local heat-mediated NO-dependent responses were markedly reduced in POTS compared with control subjects. This is consistent with intact endothelial function and reduced NO of neuronal origin in POTS. The local heating response was highly attenuated in POTS [60 +/- 6 percent maximum CVC(%CVC(max))] compared with control (90 +/- 4 %CVC(max)), but the plateau response decreased to the same level with nNOS inhibition (50 +/- 3 %CVC(max) in POTS compared with 47 +/- 2 %CVC(max)), indicating reduced nNO bioavailability in POTS patients. The data suggest that nNO activity but not NO of endothelial NOS origin is reduced in low-flow POTS.

I was looking at Dr. Martin Pall's book. It looks fascinating, but at the same time am little puzzled by the lack of current reviews (published in 2007, 18 reviews to date and 2 latest in 2012). Sushi - any success with it? Anyone else?

 

[Sushi]

AFCFS

I have the book and it is a good resource. Dr. Pall and Rich were in constant conversation and Dr. Pall's protocol was changed a bit to be more in line with Rich's. They are quite similar now.

I used Rich's protocol but became very aware of the problem of peroxynitrite.

Is your TTT going to be designed and supervised by a doc who is testing from the perspective of the autonomic nervous system or the heart? I took one designed by an autonomic specialist and he told me to stop it if I started feeling quite bad and NOT to faint--if possible. He said he could get all the data he needed in pre-syncope. (I did stop it)

Have they asked you to fast on food and water? They usually do. Take along a revival pack of food and drink. It can be an ordeal!

Best wishes for it,

Sushi

 

[alex3619]

The way its looking we need nitric oxide but don't want peroxynitrite. Just trying to increase NO will increase ONOO in us if some of the science is right. To correct the imbalance we seem to need, according to a recent paper that is discussed on another thread here, both adenosyl B12 and tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4). In the absence of either of these we will produce far too much ONOO and not enough NO. If we increased the NO to sufficient levels we might also increase the ONOO to even more dangerous levels. Catch 22. The issue seems to be correcting the oxidative stress and either B12 or BH4 deficiency. At that point the NO might take care of itself, but if it does not then that is when supplements to boost NO would be most effective.

 

[AFCFS]

Sushi

Thanks. The way I understand it is that the TTT will be conducted by a pulmonologist, so am guessing from a heart perspective if by the specialist's field. On the other hand, a neurosurgeon ordered it based on neurological testing. But then there was a third doc who wanted to see those results first, but suspected it may then lead for more autonomic testing and an echocardiagram.

The office rep for the neurosurgeon told me to eat in the AM, with regular meds - first have an MRI and some spinal X-rays and then the TTT in early afternoon. She indicated that it may not be fun, mentioning the possibility of throwing up - yea. Think now will call ahead to make sure am doing what is needed.

Thanks for the info/feedback.

alex3619

Thanks for that clarification - as much as it can be done, I suppose. Something to wrap the head around.

 

[Sushi]

AFCFS

Just make sure that they keep you tilted for 25 -- 30 minutes as several types of dysautonomia don't show up for a while. My major response came at about 25 minutes when all hell broke loose.

I hope they do some of the "extras" like valsalva, grip test, some neurological tests etc. Gives you more data.

Sushi

 

[AFCFS]

Sushi - thanks; printed that out to take with me. Think they said to expect to be there for an hour or so. I did have the grip rest with the neurosurgeon.

 

[Sushi]

Sushi - thanks; printed that out to take with me. Think they said to expect to be there for an hour or so. I did have the grip rest with the neurosurgeon.

I think I was there for at least two hours. Maybe check beforehand to make sure they do a full test to reveal autonomic problems. It is an expensive and physically taxing test, so it is important that they get it right. The guidelines are on the internet but I don't have time to find them right now.

Best,
Sushi

 

[triffid113]

The way its looking we need nitric oxide but don't want peroxynitrite. Just trying to increase NO will increase ONOO in us if some of the science is right. To correct the imbalance we seem to need, according to a recent paper that is discussed on another thread here, both adenosyl B12 and tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4). In the absence of either of these we will produce far too much ONOO and not enough NO. If we increased the NO to sufficient levels we might also increase the ONOO to even more dangerous levels. Catch 22. The issue seems to be correcting the oxidative stress and either B12 or BH4 deficiency. At that point the NO might take care of itself, but if it does not then that is when supplements to boost NO would be most effective.

I agree with the above. Low NO causes high ONOO and high blood pressure. I am not sure what happens if you have adrenal fatigue also as that causes low blood pressure and fatigue. I think the low blood pressure takes precedence but you may (prolly) still make the ONOO. I have 3 genes causing low BH4 and also 3 OTHER genes causing high blood pressure (so my blood pressure is very high - very low NO, very high ONOO. I fix it as follows:

Drop b.p. 11 points: 1g./day Olive Leaf Extract (Soloray 17%)
Drop b.p. 30 points: calcium-magnesium citrate 1:1 ratio (works with Soloray despite the magnesium is oxide and also with Nutricology), however b.p. rsises again after 2 hours
Keep b.p. down 30 points all day: 75mg DHEA in divided dose.
Drop b.p. 5 points: 500mg potassium
emphasize antioxidants, since they help against ONOO (I cannot quantify how much this helps, but I consider it important)

Other people have noted (and AHA has a study which proves) that mfolate is supposed to normalize b.p. in familial (genetic) hypertension, but it does not do so for me. I am unwilling to take a "deplin-sized" dose as it causes serious electrolyte problems for me and it feels unsafe/unstable. I merely take the Solgar mfolate as a result and rely on the above for my b.p., which is a 100% reliable protocol for NO production.

I get adrenal issues during allergy season due to allergies use up zinc to the tune of 75mg/day (at least bad allergies like mine do...they destroy mucous membranes and it consumes 75mg/day of zinc to repair them so I can breathe). Without enough zinc, I go very hypothyroid and that takes out my adrenal gland. Keeping up with the zinc not only allows me to breathe, but it keeps my adrenal gland from tanking. I believe the adrenal gland also needs tyrosine, an amino acid. I am unaware of what else it needs. However I know that rhodiola helps it because it increases glycogen stores. (Low adrenal also causes low blood sugar and leads to diabetes). DHEA goes a long way to shoring up adrenal problems, but it cannot keep up with my allergies -- only high dose zinc can do that. Just some things to consider if you have fatigue due to adrenal issues. Also note that you are hypothyroid of your TSH is in the middle of the "standard reference range" which is wrong. It should be < 2.0, otherwise you are hypothyroid.

 

[Ema]

I had ordered it with the Nitric Oxide Diagnostics™ Test Strips, as I wanted to get a baseline and be able to determine any progress. Ultimately, I had hoped that I could get my NO to a good level from food and also have the test strips be a gauge for that.

I was just looking at these test strips and they indicate that they should not be used if one has taken recent antibiotics...any ideas on why that might be?

Thanks!
Ema