Cocaine

[ramakentesh]

Im always concerned about any of those types of serotonin receptor agonists because when i take meds that mildly activate any of the serotonin receptors I feel TEN times worse - wired and jittery.

I was reading an interesting article about how elecated cytokines like good old TNF alpha again are often found to be elecvated in depression. They think that the sickness type symptoms of depression might actually be coming from that and are now suggesting a course of antidepressant and cox inhibitors in some depressed patients. They found that chronic activation of TNF alpha leads to an actual decrease in serotonin generation - not a problem with reuptake or how long it is active, but just an actual loss of it from the start.

When my Ank Spond plays up I always feel kinda washed out and mildly depressed (not so much sad, but just cant be bothered feeling). My Rheumy said that all of his AS and Fibro patients are the same. But it got me wondering - perhaps the serotonic pathways are part of the problem for me atleast if I feel that way when TNF alpha is high and when my serotonic receptors are highly sensitive suggesting upregulation.

Sorry way off topic!

 

[Jeffy14]

Hello,

So has someone here with CFS actually tried cocaine?
No one? So why do you keep talking?
I have CFS, I'm gonna give it a try to see what it does to me.
I used to take cocaine many many years ago and then I stopped.
I'll let you know.

 

[MishMash]

The best drug from the seventies was Quaaludes. The formula was actually developed in India, so nobody made any money. It got bad publicity and was banned in the U.S.; but it is still prescribed in Canada though. Mostly pushed aside when Valium was rolled out in the 1960s.

The negative side effects were same as any CNS depressant; slowed heart rate, slowed respiration, possible death if taken by the fistful. In other words, equivalent to drinking two bottles of Tequila. Mostly, it was a euphoria that lasted about 4 to 8 hours, then it wore off. Considered a "glam rock" drug (T-Rex, David Bowie, etc). Can't think of rock stars who OD'd on it though.

 

[AFCFS]

I find it telling that a Google search for "cocaine cures Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" and "cocaine cures CFS" will respectively yield (at this time):

1) Your search - "cocaine cures Chronic Fatigue Sybdrome" - did not match any documents.​

2) No results found for "cocaine cures CFS"​

If Google can't burp out a result, even a ridiculous one, I think there may be a problem with the theory. But, now, I suppose in time, the Google machine may well index this comment and there will be at least one result for each.

However, I suspect this statement from Chronic Fatigue and Adrenal Fatigue might hold some truth: "Alcohol, marijuana, tobacco and eventually harder drugs such as amphetamine and cocaine all work by forcing the adrenals to work harder, giving the illusion of energy."

 

[GhostGum]

Its also interesting because the medical properties of other illegal drugs such as marijuana in particular are now becoming clearer and better supported through peer-reviewed medical research. I find it interesting that no one can really say clearly what the natural cannabanoid receptors do in the human body, or why 80% of them are in immune cells as an example. Even stranger was the finding that 5HT-2 receptor agonists like LSD and DOB are potent - as in the most potent known to man - TNF alpha inhibitors.

If anyone is willing to go to these lengths they should really start with a cannabis extract over all else which is so much more likely to have long term benefits, there is a good run down on oil extract here,

I posted some references here about how good it can be for MS and an anti-inflammatory,

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...s-chronic-depression.19724/page-2#post-304004

A good recent article here on Israel leading the way in some real science on the subject for a change,

http://www.inquisitr.com/387154/new-medical-marijuana-wont-get-users-stoned/

Whether it will help heal what is going on with ME is another story, if it helps MS though there is a pretty good chance, but for those with pain complications with ME and on opiates it is a no brainer really. I wonder how many people also have nausea/stomach problems with medication cycles or from opiates it could also assist with; I know some on here being treated for Lyme have terrible issues with this.

 

[GhostGum]

I see there have been discussions on this before,

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...a-for-pain-and-sleep-and-the-pem-in-cfs.4106/

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/medical-marijuana-and-me-cfs.18599/

People just need to understand the massive difference between the average medical cannabis product and an oil, one can help symptoms in the short term, the other ingested has great potential to really heal. Oils are becoming more common place in medical MJ states in the US and will probably slowly replace everything, but because of the large amount of material used for a small amount of product it is probably not financially viable for dispensaries.

Anyway I would never suggest it is a cure all as that clip does but clearly it is the most medicinal substance known to man.

 

[Undisclosed]

I don't think I would want to try cocaine and even if I did, I wouldn't post it on a public forum as it is illegal. There is also the issue if I drink more than a few cups of coffee, I get a racing heart and other symptoms so I would think something like cocaine would have really negative effects.

I have a friend who has been prescribed 'medicinal marijuana' for severe intractable pain and from what I know, it has been the most effective treatment so far. I always wonder why marijuana is illegal. Well compared to alcohol that is legal and causes so much more damage.

Putting my mod hat on -- Please remember we do have a forum rule regarding 'encouraging unlawful activities' so please be mindful of this when you post about these things. There is also the issue regarding that this is a public forum and if you use your user name elsewhere, you might be connected to illegal drug use in some fashion. Please be careful.

 

[AFCFS]

Given the egg metaphor is established - egg is brain, maybe also good to tie in with Humpty Dumpty:

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

 

[Undisclosed]

Speaking of eggs. Did you know that if you drop a raw egg into alcohol it will cook --

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Makes one think.

 

[Marlène]

I remember long time ago once someone mentioning extasy and wondering why it helped her to get rid of PENE for 2-3 days.(going dancing all night out and not collapsing at all). She did not understand the reason and was afraid to use it more often.

 

[xks201]

It does not surprise me that cocaine worked for him because fibro/cfs people have low dopamine. This has been proven by a doctor named Patrick Wood on brain scans. Amphetamine and dopamine literally patch up the dopamine transporter and make it function properly. I had ADHD since a kid and vyvanse which is basically legal low dose amphetamine similar to adderall helps me a lot. People with ADHD literally have dopamine transporters that leak dopamine and run in reverse. Then there isn't enough dopamine to excite the pituitary to produce hormones or to maintain proper brain waves for the sleep/wake cycle and everything goes to hell. This is one mechanism, and probably in my opinion one of the more common ones in CFS.

 

[Sparrow]

I was on ritalin briefly. Boosted my energy amazingly while it was active. I felt like a million bucks. But once it wore off, holy crap. It was like I never actually had extra energy at all. I had just been running on empty for hours and didn't know it. Felt like an empty husk. I was completely non-functional. I miss those "normal" hours, but it seemed clear to me that it wasn't actually helping me overall. It was either just using up all of my body's resources in one shot and leaving me nothing to live on for the rest of the day, or just affecting my perceptions. ...Like CBT. I tend to think the former, since I had less and less and less reserves over time while I continued to take it. I guess a healthy person could make enough dopamine to do it again the next day, but my body definitely couldn't.

Things that boost dopamine release do make me feel better. ...But by definition, they make everyone feel better. And they also all come with habituation, so you have to keep increasing dosage for life, and then eventually can't function if you take the medication away. Seems like a dangerous road.

Anyway, I'm not going to be taking that again.

 

[xks201]

They deplete dopamine and serotonin. U need to take 5htp and tyrosine if you take those drugs on a daily basis.

 

[Sparrow]

I can't do 5-htp. Not a good thing for me.

Tyrosine unfortunately doesn't seem to do that much for my dopamine. I think the manufacturing process is a bit on the slow side, which seems to be the case even if I provide some extra raw materials.

I can see how they might be helpful to some people, though.

 

[taniaaust1]

So I guess my point is - what if this guy was right? I wish i could find the blog. it was pretty interesting.

Id be quite wary of just one cocaine user saying this cured his CFS. If that was going to be a miracle cure for us Im sure we would of heard more about it (there's probably many who have CFS who have tried illegal drugs).

Also remission can happen so just maybe his case was rather that.

Even if cocaine did have a couple of possibly physiological affects on the body which could be helpful to us, there would be far safer prescription drugs (or herbs etc) which one could use for whatever phyiological change u were hoping to gain without the risk of giving one a lifetime addiction (and not carrying legal risk too)

Id like to say thanks for the mods for leaving this thread up .. so a sensible discussion could happen on this subject.

 

[CAcfs]

This is interesting. I did notice Adderall helped me, and coffee also seems to help quite a bit. Did not get any help from Provigil, really. It didn't seem to have the same magical effect the other two have. I think for me, it is all about bloodflow, (coffee is a vasoconstrictor). I have wondered if cocaine in low doses would help, because I think there are people (not anyone I know well, except I've heard rumors about an acquaintance who was a lawyer...) who use it as a mega-booster, and seem to do okay. Why is Hollywood so thin and why are stock traders in Manhattan so successful? I am not saying everyone does it, but I'm sure some do. Also, cocaine was in the original version of Coca Cola, like over 100 years ago. So it made me wonder if I should have been living back then. But there are problems....

I think the risks are not worth it. It is illegal because overall, it makes people worse, not better. Although I am one of those types that thinks people should be able to do what they want, I do think it's not illegal because of some conspiracy, but because it really is likely more harmful than helpful, to society. And to individuals. Trust me, you don't want to be some kind of addict. Most of the people I know that use drugs like marijuana (and keep in mind, that is not considered a harsh drug, an yes, very different than coke) say it's so great, but from the outside, it looks like it's impacting their life in a negative way.....so I think you just need to be careful if mind or mood altering things are really helping you as much as it seems to "you," the one using it. So my suggestion would be to find something else that does the same thing, and use it in moderation, like Adderall, or those over the counter diet pills that I see ads for in the back of gossip magazines (Tri-Adalean I think is one? Not saying it's safe). Or just caffeine. Even those things will probably burn you out after awhile, so just be glad at that point you didn't choose cocaine. So yeah, avoid it.

 

[CAcfs]

Oh, speaking of Tyrosine, it helped me a LOT. I actually stopped it because it seemed too good to be true, and I was worried it would burn me out. I think I was taking 500 mg of Now brand L-Tyrosine, capsules, purchased on iherb.com.

I would try that too. You may be able to take higher doses, etc. Just look it up.

 

[CAcfs]

To elaborate.....because this has gotten me thinking.....What I am starting to figure out, is that for every substance out there we can't "get", whether it be because we don't have health insurance, it's not approved, etc etc.....there is another substance we can get that does something similar, via the same process. It may not be a perfect substitute, but there's also equal odds it'll work out even better and with fewer side effects. I am not suggesting that that way of doing things is safe, but do with it what you wish.

Basically, what cocaine would be doing to your body/brain isn't a unique process, so just use something else that does the same thing to your body. Boosts X. Increases Y. It seems there are multiple ways to get one effect.....like with the methylation cycle.....you can take B12, or TMG, or this, or that....you would be surprised how many substances can acheive a similar goal in the body, supporting the same process.

For example, if your joints are inflamed and you can't get a hold of flaxseed oil (because the government made it illegal, hypothetical), you can be sad about it, or just do research and find that other seed oils provide the same ratio of a certain omega-XYZ, and same level of anti-inflammation. Some things are harder to replace than others. But it's just a matter of research or tweaking doses, my theory.

Or like when I was obsessed with the idea of taking Xyrem (which is really hard to get because it is a "date rape" drug) for deeper sleep. I did a lot of research and realized that things like GABA (if memory serves) might work via the same process, getting the brain into certain stages of sleep.....quieting parasympathetic activity at night, etc. I think I also found that in studies, even L-Glycine will correct brain waves (?) at night. Can't remember all the particulars, but you would be amazed, once you are determined to find an "alternative" that does the same thing, what you will come up with!!!!!!! And maybe it'll be safer.

 

[xks201]

Im always concerned about any of those types of serotonin receptor agonists because when i take meds that mildly activate any of the serotonin receptors I feel TEN times worse - wired and jittery.

I was reading an interesting article about how elecated cytokines like good old TNF alpha again are often found to be elecvated in depression. They think that the sickness type symptoms of depression might actually be coming from that and are now suggesting a course of antidepressant and cox inhibitors in some depressed patients. They found that chronic activation of TNF alpha leads to an actual decrease in serotonin generation - not a problem with reuptake or how long it is active, but just an actual loss of it from the start.

When my Ank Spond plays up I always feel kinda washed out and mildly depressed (not so much sad, but just cant be bothered feeling). My Rheumy said that all of his AS and Fibro patients are the same. But it got me wondering - perhaps the serotonic pathways are part of the problem for me atleast if I feel that way when TNF alpha is high and when my serotonic receptors are highly sensitive suggesting upregulation.

Sorry way off topic!

Yeah I remember a doctor hypothesizing that the brain was protecting itself from excitotoxicity when low serotonin was present. And another doctor was hypothesizing that the serotonin receptors are so upregulated in serotonin deficiency that SSRIs make us feel worse for that reason, but in due time they should work. The problem is dosing. An eighth of a pill is probably all you need of say Lexapro or zoloft. Start with that. If I take more I get aggressive...a consequence of high serotonin - which defeats the purpose of taking it.

 

[Nielk]

Speaking of eggs. Did you know that if you drop a raw egg into alcohol it will cook --

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

Makes one think.

Wow, Kina - how did you find this?