Do you take Boron with vitamin D?

[Ocean]

I've been trying to add in vitamin D cofactors, one of which is Boron. I just read that it might not be a good idea to supplement with Boron and that most will get enough from diet. I do eat a lot of vegetables, which I guess is a source of Boron. Apparently it can raise estrogen levels and mess with the bodies hormonal system. Does anyone take Boron? I'm starting to think maybe it's best I don't add it for now, but I'm not sure how important it is to take all the vit. D cofactors. I've found that when I take vit. D I do need the other cofactors, like magnesium, so I wonder if the same is true for Boron.

 

[blue sky]

Hi Ocean,
This is an interesting question. I supplemented with boron as it was recommended to increase bone density, and I have had osteoporosis since my mid forties. I had read that osteoporosis is often found in people with ME/CFS. I was unaware that boron raised estrogen levels when I was initially taking it. After some time, I experenced slight pain in one breast, so I decided to read up on a couple of my supplements, and did find that boron raises estrogen levels. After I stopped taking boron, the pain decreased, although later I developed benign cysts in that area of the breast pain. I was told that cysts are fairly common at my age (over 50), but was not happy with having developed them, seemingly as a result of the boron. I would be careful supplementing this.

 

[Ocean]

Thank you so much for the word of caution. I think I'm going to not take the supplement. I think there's a small amount in my multivitamin anyway and I get a good amount of fruits and vegetables. I'm sorry you had to go through that side effect.

 

[sianrecovery]

I have osteoporosis too, and was thinking about taking it - there is a very pro Boron article in Nexus magazine, and it sounded good. I have very low oestrogen, but I also have a mother who died of breast cancer, so am glad of this thread - I'll leave it xxxx

 

[froufox]

Yeah I agree with dunningblue, be careful with boron. When they say it raises estrogen, they're talking about Estrodial which is one of the estrogens associated with breast cancer. I dont remember reading anything which says it raises estriol which is protective of breast cancer, or estrone. So its a bit misleading unless you read the actual papers or abstracts....articles just tend to talk about oestrogen generally. I tried it a few months back and felt some benefits but also experienced uncomfortable breast pain like dunningblue, so I stopped taking it.

 

[Ocean]

I don't know how fast it can act but I felt cramping just the first day of taking it. Maybe it was coincidence. Either way, I don't plan to take it either. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

[AFCFS]

My integrative Internist (an MD) had my Boron level taken with a multitude of other tests and it showed I had no Boron (Boron - Non Detected - mcg/ml). This is despite a diet that should have allowed for such. I received a copy of the lab results in the mail before the appointment and he had previously given me an article on Boron. I read through it and ordered some 3mg caps, and took 3 of them for a total of 9 mg a day - with my 5000iu of Vitamin D3 and a host of other supplements. I had also read much about possible side effects of too much Boron so wanted to err on the side of caution and thought the 9 mg would be OK until I saw the doctor. When I saw him yesterday, one of my continued symptom complaints was cognitive clouding, poor cognition in general, memory problems. As I said to him, "I feel like someone just hit me upside the head with a baseball bat." He was going through my supplement list and mentioned the Boron. I reiterated the 9 mg and he said I should be taking 90 mg. That is right - 90 mg! He said the 9 mg would not help cognition, but the 90 mg would. I started thinking that would require 30, 3 mg caps - hmm - that is a lot!. Well he had Boron 30 mg as Potassium Borate, which he gave me. When I got home I looked to see if it was available on the Internet. I could find the lab that made it, but it was not for sale. Likely a good thing with a high dose and I see him again in about two weeks so it is all under doctor supervision. That being said, I popped three, for my total of 90 mg as I had had an morning appointment and it was still in the AM, as indicated for use. He had also boosted me up to 500 mg of Pregnenolone, but I only took an additional 100 mg with my Boron. Between the two, it felt like my brain had been hooked up to a jumper cable - actually a good feeling, and rather relaxing in some regard as it seemed to cut into the debilitating fatigue for a bit. It was not like "instant all is well" but more like "OK something is going on here and it is not bad." I had not slept much the night before and I ended up just closing my eyes, seeing some interesting visual patterns on the back of my eyelids and then going into a very deep, and much needed, sleep. Go figure. Am trying again this morning and will see how it goes. Just as an FYI - would not go trying any of this unless you have a medical doctor guiding you in that direction. 90 mg of Boron is a high dose, compared to what you may find on the Internet. So is 500 mg of Pregnenolone. Aside from other supplements, am also on a rather high dose of DHEA (100 mg). My DHEA-S level was in normal range, but my Pregnenolone was low on the blood tests. All this is complicated stuff. The doctor is well known in the field and affiliated with a local hospital, so I have a fair amount of trust in him. Hope this helps someone.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Ocean, what are the other vitamin D cofactors?

 

[Asklipia]

Careful with Boron as it seriously depletes Riboflavin (Vitamin B2).
B2 is the antidote to Boric Acid poisoning. There could well be a synergy B2/Boron/D3/K2/Manganese + exclusion of Fake Folates. The question is: what are the proportions. This would have to be individual because of differences in diet.

I did take some Boron for a week. I got a good raise of progesterone (I am female) and this was helping nicely. BUT after a few days I got hit by what I did not know then were symptoms of B2 deficiency.
Also it messed up something below my teeth. This could have been a detox but it hurt like hell for 6 weeks. Some trapped lymph in my jaws.

So I stopped taking Boron.

Now this is not saying that there are no good sides to Boron. However, if Boron is part of a whole complex of nutrients having to be present at the same time to get good bones, it does not follow that a lack of Boron is the problem.
Or that we lack Boron when we don't find any in the blood.
Indeed there is lots of it in food and in many cleaning products. Contact lenses fluid is made from Boron and if you wear those you most probably have all the Boron you need.

Need for what?
How to use it?
How much?

I think a lot of the recent popularity of Boron is due to the hormonal boost, testosterone in particular.
I do not take extra Boron (even though I think it is most probably a co-factor in building strong bones), and my bones are now looking very young. No osteoporosis whatsoever left and supple tendons.
Good luck and best wishes,
Asklipia
FFP

 

[AFCFS]

Careful with Boron as it seriously depletes Riboflavin (Vitamin B2).
FFP

Good to know. Thanks. When on Boron, I rely on "Riboflavin, in excess, is excreted in the urine and is responsible for turning urine a bright yellow-green fluorescent colour but is not associated with toxicity."

 

[aaron_c]

Hi @AFCFS ,

Whatever happened with your use of potassium borate? Are you still on it? Did you ever experience riboflavin-deficiency side-effects?

 

[sflorence]

I am curious as to @AFCFS continued experience with boron as well

 

[soofke]

yes and the result so far is;
-vitamin D works way better, while I take half the amount of before
-no mouth ulcers which I've had since childhood
-I didn't even notice how much hair I lost until it started growing back and now I'm slightly resembling Einstein ;o)

took a full tablet for a month and then the headache-which-means-I'm-overdosing started so then I cut back to a few crumbles every other day

 

[soofke]

oh and add some iodine, saves a headache (back to full dose now!)

 

[Tango2]

Those wanting to see a recent Boron video can look up Jorge Fletchas MD 2013 report on Boron. He goes over doses and much of the research available. Because boron increases the health of the hormone system, other references report a drop in cancer rates for breast and prostate cancers in high boron areas. If you get dense or painful breasts, a number of people have treated this with high doses of iodine, so its not specifically a boron problem. Lots of people are low on iodine! Fletchas does talk of doses as high as 60 mg to 90 mg per day. Boron also functions strongly in improving bone health and hardness and reducing Arthritis and osteoarthritis, so it should be good for preventing bone and and stopping auto immune conditions.
I've been taking about 30 mg of boron for several months, as an older adult, its improved my hormone status and my mild arthritis like symptoms in a couple of areas are better. Its interesting to hear about the vitamin B2 connection, I take a B-100 which seems to prevent any of that side effect and we need to think in therms of what is the best combination of nutrients to take. Doctor often tend to worry about boron and treat it like a poison, but its reduction in cancer rates and the several improvements it creates suggest those worries are unmerited. Claims of boron being poisonous are much overblown with boron being about as dangerous as table salt.
If you are taking boron to improve an autoimmune condition, taking high doses of Vitamin D3 is also very important. Look up Vitamin D3 treatment by a Brazilian doctor Coimbras who uses it to treat MS patients with much success. Life Extension also has reliable reporting on Boron research.

 

[Hyperflux]

Be very careful with boron + vitamin D3. Boron increases D3 absorption by a large amount (see Examine for study) which can lead to hypervitaminosis D/hypercalcemia which I was diagnosed with after using 12mg boron for a couple of months along with 10000iu D3 daily. I have since dropped the boron and lowered D3 to 4000iu daily. My reason for supplementing boron was to increase free testosterone, just wanted to see if it would increase my quality of life. I didn't notice too much which indicates to me that my free test is fine (I only know that my total test is high via blood work, but they don't test free testosterone in Canada unless you have a good reason to).

 

[Little Bluestem]

I have been taking 5 mg/day for 3.5 years as part of an osteoporosis protocol and have had no problems.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Lolinda

 

[Tango2]

Boron is generally really safe. Its known that ground and water levels in Turkey, Israel, and areas of the South West USA are high, yet despite fears and research, there have been no outstanding medical problems found. What is noted in Israel and Turkey is very low levels of arthritis and bone loss in these areas where boron intake by water supply is 30 mg to 60 mg per day. There is a great deal of negative information published on boron by official sources available which has minimal if any scientific basis. This absence is especially notable given the millions of people living in high boron areas that have no problems with this life long presence. Boron is estimated to be about as toxic as table salt from research. Boron normalizes hormone levels in older adults but doesn't cause increased hormone levels in younger adults. Its known that taking boron in 15 mg doses improves the hardness of bones in older adults. As AFCFS noted, you can be eating a lot of fruit but still be low on boron if the fruit is grown in a low boron area.

A lot of the medical references on Vitamin D and boron are out of date, showing very low doses and with recent research showing fears of high calcium levels being unfounded. Currently Vitamin D3 testing has extended to 15,000 IU daily although these should be with a doctors care and for treatment of some condition. Doctors will use as much as 20,000 to 30,000 IU for auto immune conditions since vitamin D3 improves the immune systems recognition of self. Nearly all high calcium levels are due to parathyroid disease, not high levels of vitamin D. See:
https://www.vitamindwiki.com/Vitamin+D+responses+to+as+much+as+15,000+IU+per+day+–+Feb+2017

 

[prioris]

I cured my rheumatoid arthritis with borax (12 mule team variety). borax is used because i think it contains an ionic form of boron which makes it absorb better. The first 19 days, it had no effect on my RA. On day 20, the RA began to dissolve away. I was relieved it was working.

interesting to read "boron intake by water supply is 30 mg to 60 mg per day." ... maybe not all is being absorbed.

as a nutrient, the parathyroid gland requires the most boron to stay healthy.