B-12 - The Hidden Story

[DrD]

Freddd what was the name of your compounding pharmacy can you PM me or post? Thanks

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hi Jenbooks, If you are going to follow up with the lozenges, let me know.
I can tolerate the Jarrows 1000mcg, but for some reason the 5000mcg cherry flavor bothers me. (its not the methyl dose either, as I am acclimated to 25000+mcg/day at this point). The cherry additive causes my rosacea to flare up/allergic reaction.

I have called them before on injectables and they are very pleasant to deal with.....

 

[DrD]

Hi Brenda,


Well yes hormonal if you mean thyroid or adrenal hormones but that's not what you mean. I guess you are trying to put it onto sex hormones

Actually Brenda, I'm not trying to put it on the sex hormones. B12 can affect a number of hormonal systems including sex hormones. So far I haven't seen any evidence that it directly affects thyroid hormones but adrenal look like a good possibility. As it can affect hormones quickly, that is a potential mechanism of action here from the b12 in 3 days. Adelle Davis was always big on liver for the adrenal things. Liver was the best source of natural b12 before it started coming in pills.

You sound like some doctors I know - 'its' just your hormones my dear'.

First, When hormones are causing a difficulty I would never say "just". I have my own hormone problems and I know how seriously they can affect health and quality of life. The Dartmouth study had some interesting things to say about testosterone and FMS. The docs would say that to be dismissive. I'm not at all dismissve about hormones.
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hi, I know I am coming out of left field on this one (I am just catching up on this thread). I had a testosterone test taken recently at the dr. was stunned to find that it was at 1400. I had a testosterone test taken around 5 years ago and it was in the "normal" range of 550 or something. I have no idea why the testosterone is so high. The dr. asked me if I was injecting testosterone. I am not. The only change has been the vitamin regime per the main b12 thread, with the megadoses of methyl and 2 adenos. I am also injecting 5mg/twice a week (methyl). I have no idea if there is a direct correlation. I am on a high protein (meat) diet as well and that could be contributing to it, but I am not sure if it would raise it to a 1400 level. Anyways, I am not complaining.....

 

[SaraM]

extra beats

David,

I solved my extra heart beats problem with taking Cortef for a couple of months.

 

[dmholmes]

David,

I solved my extra heart beats problem with taking Coretf for a couple of months.

Thanks for the info Sara.

 

[Freddd]

David,

I solved my extra heart beats problem with taking Coretf for a couple of months.

Hi Sarah,

Do you mean the drug Cortef?
http://www.pfizer.com/files/products/uspi_cortef.pdf
"DESCRIPTION. CORTEF Tablets contain hydrocortisone"

 

[Freddd]

Thanks for the info Sara.

Hi David,

Perhaps you might want to check out pregnenolone, a precursor generally for those over 40.

 

[Freddd]

Hi Brenda,


Well yes hormonal if you mean thyroid or adrenal hormones but that's not what you mean. I guess you are trying to put it onto sex hormones

Actually Brenda, I'm not trying to put it on the sex hormones. B12 can affect a number of hormonal systems including sex hormones. So far I haven't seen any evidence that it directly affects thyroid hormones but adrenal look like a good possibility. As it can affect hormones quickly, that is a potential mechanism of action here from the b12 in 3 days. Adelle Davis was always big on liver for the adrenal things. Liver was the best source of natural b12 before it started coming in pills.

You sound like some doctors I know - 'its' just your hormones my dear'.

First, When hormones are causing a difficulty I would never say "just". I have my own hormone problems and I know how seriously they can affect health and quality of life. The Dartmouth study had some interesting things to say about testosterone and FMS. The docs would say that to be dismissive. I'm not at all dismissve about hormones.
======

hi, I know I am coming out of left field on this one (I am just catching up on this thread). I had a testosterone test taken recently at the dr. was stunned to find that it was at 1400. I had a testosterone test taken around 5 years ago and it was in the "normal" range of 550 or something. I have no idea why the testosterone is so high. The dr. asked me if I was injecting testosterone. I am not. The only change has been the vitamin regime per the main b12 thread, with the megadoses of methyl and 2 adenos. I am also injecting 5mg/twice a week (methyl). I have no idea if there is a direct correlation. I am on a high protein (meat) diet as well and that could be contributing to it, but I am not sure if it would raise it to a 1400 level. Anyways, I am not complaining.....

Hi DrD,

That's amazing, the increase in testosterone. I know a deficiency can cause it to plumet, I wasn't aware of taking mb12 restoring it, at least not very quickly.

 

[dmholmes]

Hi David,

Perhaps you might want to check out pregnenolone, a precursor generally for those over 40.

Thanks Fred, I'll keep it in mind. The palpitations aren't too bothersome at the moment, orthostatic intolerance is still topping the list.

Speaking of precursors, what is your understanding of the relationship of SAM-e and glutathione? I read about it a bit after I tried the low dose of SAM-e, but haven't tried the 400mg dose yet. I need to have down time available in case it causes major drowsiness again.

 

[Freddd]

Thanks Fred, I'll keep it in mind. The palpitations aren't too bothersome at the moment, orthostatic intolerance is still topping the list.

Speaking of precursors, what is your understanding of the relationship of SAM-e and glutathione? I read about it a bit after I tried the low dose of SAM-e, but haven't tried the 400mg dose yet. I need to have down time available in case it causes major drowsiness again.

Hi David,

I'm not sure how it relates to glutathione. I'm not troubled by levels that are naturally produced in the body. SAM-e is normally a stimulent for many. The drowsiness appears to be a healing response. I use to have all sorts of orthostatic intolerance. It just quietly disappeared somewhere along the way and hasn't been back.

 

[susan]

Update on B12 shots

Hi Fredd,
Thank you so much for your tireless contribution and for trying to help us thru the maze. I went to my " good" Doc this week and she is up on most stuff but you have to do battle with her as like most of them, they really dont have the time to keep abreast of most things happening even when they have CFS themselves. It was good she gave me the B12 shot anyway.

Update.
It is day 4 after my B12 methyl shot and I could not sleep last night as day 3 as I was soooo wired still. I naturally have an adrenaline problem, adrenal insufficiency, very low thryoid but this B12 over stimulated me in a big way.

I get nausea with everything new I try to take........I have to cut every pill down into 1/8 s a day to get it into my body for a week and build up. This will be hard with shots as I have to go to the Docs to have them each time unless he lets me do it at home ( he has CFS too) I am ready for the 2nd shot but the nausea creates total chaos in my body so I will have to pass on it until it settles.

I cant introduce anything else at this stage like multi vits till I get my body to accept the B12. I have all the stuff from I herb that you recommended so i will muddle on now with your good advice, not so much looking for results but getting my body to adjust to the "foreign invader" before I can hope for better health....I am detoxing mercury at the moment.

Thank you for your help

 

[Freddd]

Hi Fredd,
Thank you so much for your tireless contribution and for trying to help us thru the maze. I went to my " good" Doc this week and she is up on most stuff but you have to do battle with her as like most of them, they really dont have the time to keep abreast of most things happening even when they have CFS themselves. It was good she gave me the B12 shot anyway.

Update.
It is day 4 after my B12 methyl shot and I could not sleep last night as day 3 as I was soooo wired still. I naturally have an adrenaline problem, adrenal insufficiency, very low thryoid but this B12 over stimulated me in a big way.

I get nausea with everything new I try to take........I have to cut every pill down into 1/8 s a day to get it into my body for a week and build up. This will be hard with shots as I have to go to the Docs to have them each time unless he lets me do it at home ( he has CFS too) I am ready for the 2nd shot but the nausea creates total chaos in my body so I will have to pass on it until it settles.

I cant introduce anything else at this stage like multi vits till I get my body to accept the B12. I have all the stuff from I herb that you recommended so i will muddle on now with your good advice, not so much looking for results but getting my body to adjust to the "foreign invader" before I can hope for better health....I am detoxing mercury at the moment.

Thank you for your help

Hi Susan,

I would like to say that I don't usually suggest mb12 injections, especially of greater than 5mg until after a person has built up the sublinguals to 20mg/day or so to for two reasons; to avoid possibly severe reactions and so that a person can know if they actually need them for CNS/CSF deficiency as opposed to a body deficiency. The body deficiency reactions are so huge compared to the CNS/CSF reactions that they completely obscure them if body reactions are present. Subcutaneous injections are superior in every way for this purpose so it is easy to do them yourself. I use 20mg/ml concentration for best effect. At that concentration the amount can be contoled in 100mcg increments with an insulin syringe. I use a 0.5ml insulin syringe with 1 unit (0.01 ml) markings and 5/16" needle. You can be on the lines or between the lines for 100mcg granularity. I've been doing this for 4 years now at between 1 and 4 injections per day. I've experimented and found what works in various ways for what purposes.

 

[Freddd]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32957460...-heart_health/

An intersting article about Omega3 oils.

How could omega-3s possibly be this powerful? Scientists believe it's because Americans are suffering from a widespread deficiency. A recent study conducted by Dariush Mozaffarian, MD, of the Harvard School of Public Health, found that the absence of these fatty acids in our diet is responsible annually for up to 96,000 premature deaths in this country. Scientists, however, are learning that fixing this nutritional deficiency is a bit more complicated than simply telling people to eat more fish.

 

[richvank]

To David, re: SAMe and glutathione

Hi, David.

From the biochemical standpoint, SAMe is part of the methylation cycle, which lies at the beginning of the sulfur metabolism. Under normal conditions, SAMe is used to supply methyl groups for a large number of methylation reactions in the body, and it is thereby converted to SAH (S-adenosylmethionine).

SAH goes on to become homocysteine, and there is a branch point at homocysteine. Some is converted back to methionine, which then becomes SAMe and so on, in the methylation cycle.

The other branch converts homocysteine to cystathionine, which is at the beginning of the transsulfuration pathway. Cystathionine is converted to cysteine.

There are several branches leading from cysteine. One of them is the synthesis of glutathione.

So SAMe can be thought of as being upstream of glutathione in the metabolism, and supplementing SAMe under normal conditions will help to synthesize more glutathione.

However, in CFS, there is a partial block in the methylation cycle, and glutathione is depleted in most cases. Some people report benefit from supplementing SAMe, and others report that they can't tolerate it.

I suspect that in those who don't tolerate it, what is happening is that too much is being metabolized to sulfite (which is produced in another one of the pathways that branches from cysteine), and the sulfite oxidase enzyme is being overloaded, so that sulfite rises. Sulfite is toxic at high enough concentrations. It can cause headaches and other symptoms, and it can also further deplete glutathione. Sometimes supplementing with molybdenum can help to lower the sulfite level, because it forms a cofactor for the sulfite oxidase enzyme.

I think this can be compounded by the presence of high populations of sulfate-reducing bacteria in the gut, which some PWCs have. These produce hydrogen sulfide, which is also toxic if it rises to high enough concentrations.

Most of the sulfur in the body is eventually converted to sulfate and excreted in that form (some as taurine, some as thiosulfate some in cysteine or cystine), so I suspect that any form of sulfur taken in can feed these bacteria, if present. This may account for reports from many PWCs that they do not tolerate foods or supplements that are high in sulfur.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[klutzo]

My two cents on SAMe, Pregnenolone, fish vs. krill oil

Hi Fred and anyone else interested,

SAMe did not effect me in any way, no matter how much I took or how long. Ditto for phosphtidal serine, even though it was recommended after an ASI test showed low sIGA.

I would like to cast my vote for pregnenolone, the supp. I am most afraid of losing to Codex, since they plan to take hormones off the market first. I only need a tiny amt. to drastically improve my mood from suicidal and irritable to tolerable. Normal doses are around 50 mgs. daily. Unfortunately, the amt. needed to produce total normalcy of mood for me (10 mgs. 3 X wk.) raises my estrogen high enough to bring back my premenopausal migraines, for which I can no longer get treatment, since in combo with my other meds, effective pain drugs make me stop breathing. So, I am stuck with 5 mgs. of Pregnenolone every other day. But, even at that tiny dose it helps immensely. This may not help everyone, but I suspect it would help anyone else, who like me, had mood problems that started at menopause. I remember telling my husband that if this is what you men are like all the time, it's no wonder you keep starting wars!

Fish oil made me burp and regurgitate, and it actually made my lipids worse, which it does to about 30% of people. There are also purity issues with mercury and the issue of over fishing. I would recommend neptune krill oil instead. There is no burp or regurgitation, it does not produce paradoxical reactions, and it is much, much more absorbable, so a far smaller dose produces dramatic results. It also is the largest biomass on earth, so we are not going to run out. Krill are so small that mercury is not an issue either. In two months, 900 mgs. of krill oil daily reduced my total cholesterol by 80 pts. and my LDL by 131 pts. It also reduced my triglycerides by a whopping 339 pts. My HDL still stinks so badly that my ratio is still awful, but this is a vast improvement, and everyone on one side of my family has abysmally low HDL, despite all of us exercising, etc., so I will take what I can get. I also have much nicer hair, nails and skin, after having had them be bone dry all my life.

klutzo

 

[Freddd]

Hi Fred and anyone else interested,

SAMe did not effect me in any way, no matter how much I took or how long. Ditto for phosphtidal serine, even though it was recommended after an ASI test showed low sIGA.

I would like to cast my vote for pregnenolone, the supp. I am most afraid of losing to Codex, since they plan to take hormones off the market first. I only need a tiny amt. to drastically improve my mood from suicidal and irritable to tolerable. Normal doses are around 50 mgs. daily. Unfortunately, the amt. needed to produce total normalcy of mood for me (10 mgs. 3 X wk.) raises my estrogen high enough to bring back my premenopausal migraines, for which I can no longer get treatment, since in combo with my other meds, effective pain drugs make me stop breathing. So, I am stuck with 5 mgs. of Pregnenolone every other day. But, even at that tiny dose it helps immensely. This may not help everyone, but I suspect it would help anyone else, who like me, had mood problems that started at menopause. I remember telling my husband that if this is what you men are like all the time, it's no wonder you keep starting wars!

Fish oil made me burp and regurgitate, and it actually made my lipids worse, which it does to about 30% of people. There are also purity issues with mercury and the issue of over fishing. I would recommend neptune krill oil instead. There is no burp or regurgitation, it does not produce paradoxical reactions, and it is much, much more absorbable, so a far smaller dose produces dramatic results. It also is the largest biomass on earth, so we are not going to run out. Krill are so small that mercury is not an issue either. In two months, 900 mgs. of krill oil daily reduced my total cholesterol by 80 pts. and my LDL by 131 pts. It also reduced my triglycerides by a whopping 339 pts. My HDL still stinks so badly that my ratio is still awful, but this is a vast improvement, and everyone on one side of my family has abysmally low HDL, despite all of us exercising, etc., so I will take what I can get. I also have much nicer hair, nails and skin, after having had them be bone dry all my life.

klutzo

Hi Klutzo,

As you may know, pregnenolone is generated by the body from cholesteral so perhaps it is affected by your whole lipids malfunction. As you don't need much you could eaily buy a lifetime supply of prenenolone and stash it in your freezer. It's curious that your body is so hypersensitive to it.

SAMe, like so many things, is only helpful for a percentage of people. There also may be a substantial amount of brand difference. I tried 4 brands and use the one that worked the best and I check it yearly with a two week stop and start. It affects all 3 of my children in similar ways and they find the one that works best for me also works for them but haven't tried all the other brands.

I haven't checked out the krill poil thing but I may give that a try. The fish oil is a contributor to my lower BP.

 

[klutzo]

Blood Pressure lowering

Fred,
You are lucky that fish oil lowers your blood pressure. There is only one thing that lowers mine, and that is not eating. The less I eat, the lower it gets, and vice versa. Ditto for my pulse. This proves again that my pancreas problem is the driving force behind my high BP and tachycardia episodes. There is nothing like a meal that is a normal size and/or has a normal amount of fat in it to bring on a massive panic attack. I wish I had figured all this out earlier. I wish the doctors had figured it out.....I got sent to so many. If I eat 800 calories a day, I can actually cut my blood pressure medication by one third. I know this because that was all I could keep down when I still had my gallbladder and it was acting up. Of course, I would eventually disappear if I only ate that much, and that is exactly what happened to my mother, who died of malabsorption at age 60. She was 5 ft. 7 in. tall just like me, but ended up at only 62 lbs. There were no prescription enzymes back then.

I don't know what brand of fish oil you use, but before I discovered krill oil, I tried several, and did find one that did not make me burp and tasted great as a salad dressing, Carlson's lemon flavored fish oil, which comes in bottle instead of pills. It did not help my lipids like krill though. For a lot more about krill oil, try www.drmercola.com. He has plenty on his website about it.

Good idea about stocking up on pregnenolone. I did not know it would keep that long in the freezer. I use Source Naturals brand.

klutzo

 

[SaraM]

Cortef

Hi Sarah,

Do you mean the drug Cortef?
http://www.pfizer.com/files/products/uspi_cortef.pdf
"DESCRIPTION. CORTEF Tablets contain hydrocortisone"

Hi Freddd,

Yes, I meant Cortef. Sorry for the typo.

 

[DrD]

Hi Keenly,
I really am sorry I hijacked this thread now, as the Depopulation agenda is such a depressing subject, but I am glad to find someone here who knows about it. Remember, if they succeed, there will be no need for supplements. Their own Georgia Stones, as well as the Agenda 21 document both state that they plan to reduce world population to 500 million. These are to be healthy, young, passive, and totally controlled to be used as their slaves. Nobody who needs supps. or gets sick will be kept alive. The rest of us are "useless eaters" and will be culled, one way or another. It sounds like you are well versed on their problem-reaction-solution methods and don't need me to outline the various ways they are culling us already, or some of the horrific things they've proposed to speed up the process.
One thing I don't think some people understand is that when it comes to the NWO Agenda, they ignore the will of the people and just continue on with the Agenda, or if there is a lot of opposition, they create a crisis that will cause people to beg for what they wanted all along. That is why petitions don't work, why not only are troops still over there but have been increased, why the border is still open, why the bailouts were passed and on and on. The last elected official here who dared to give a speech in public exposing their whole plan, had his head blown off as an object lesson to the future puppets we are allowed to vote for (JFK).
I believe nothing less than a massive awakening of mankind to our true spiritual nature and a noncompliance with their rules that results in us taking back our power from them will suffice.
I think if we want to discuss this subject further, it needs it's own thread in another section. Though the NWO are certainly the most toxic people on the planet, that is not the type of toxin this part of the forum is about.

Stay in a place of love; they feed on our fear,

klutzo

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If you branched this to another thread can you list the url?

thanks

 

[DrD]

Hi Deb,

I don't think this is a potassium situation as that usually manifests in the muscles but I don't know that for sure. I suspect that as mb12 and adb12 does directly affect the neurology in many ways that changes are occurring. Others have experienced some dizziness during healing and it normally has resolved. I don't know of any that haven't.

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hi Deb, early on I most definitely had a weird dizziness from the mb12. For me, it took quite a while to go away (around 4-5 weeks). I am well into the protocol, and only rarely have the dizziness/dizzy spells. They are quite disconcerting. Not sure if you are still experiencing them. If so, please give it a little more time. I described this "dizziness" as being off balance or off center, especially while walking and standing upright.

 

[DrD]

Hi Brenda,

I'm new to this and absorbing a lot of info on B12, which I intend to try. One of the first things I looked into when I got symptomy was adrenal/thyroid deficiency.

About the thyroid situation: have you heard of Standard Process supplements? I found about them through Dr. David Williams (you can check out his website). He researches alternative medicines around the world.

Standard Process uses organically raised animals to form supplements for the endocrine glands, supplements that contain NO HORMONES. They do contain the rest of the complex of the glands in question; the idea is that they act like "vitamins" for the gland, without replacing its function as supplements/meds with hormones do.

Williams recommends taking the tablets for the adrenal glands along with the ones for thyroid, since his opinion is that any thyroid deficiency indicates an underlying adrenal deficiency. Chinese medicine agrees with this theory, so I think it's likely to be a good one. (Interestingly, Williams is convinced that adrenal and thyroid deficiencies are the precursors to depression; in really advanced cases, he recommends adding pituitary supplements as well.)

Don't know if these will work for you, but you might investigate. They have been around since the 1930s, so obviously they've worked well for many over time.

There are also iodine supplements for hypothyroid which might be helpful for you.

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a holistic dr that i visted several weeks ago orders some Standard Process chlorophyll and cataplex b12. I started the chloro several weeks ago. I have not started teh cataplex b12 yet. The ingredient list is a bit scary.....

Freddd do you have any feedback on the Standard process approach....?