Paralympics for people with ME?

[Firestormm]

29 August 2012

There I was listened on the radio to the build-up to the games. Tonight's opening events and tomorrow's beginnings.... and I thought would it ever be accepted for someone with our condition to compete as a paralympian or even as a disabled athlete?

I wonder where the most negativity would originate - other patients or the public at large? It's 'odd' isn't it our own perception about our own disability, as well as what we consider to be other people's perception of us.

Why shouldn't someone with ME compete? If exercise doesn't equal cure - why shouldn't people with ME consider themselves disabled athletes?

It's an interesting notion, no?

 

[Sallysblooms]

Most would not be able to do that if they had CFS. Unless they got better.

 

[peggy-sue]

The problem is that occupying the bed in a bed-pushing event isn't yet an olympic sport.....
Frankly, I think it's discrimmination that there isn't an event we can get into.

 

[Mij]

I'm not sure what you are asking. People with "disabilities" that have missing limbs or physically challenged CAN compete since they are not ill.

Do people with illnessess also compete in the ParaOlympics?

 

[Morgaine]

Good blog here on the difference between disability & being disabled by chronic illness:

http://ronsrants.wordpress.com/2012...hronically-sick-and-disabled-a-press-release/

 

[Firestormm]

I'm not sure what you are asking. People with "disabilities" that have missing limbs or physically challenged CAN compete since they are not ill.

Do people with illnessess also compete in the ParaOlympics?

I don't know. I guess not. Hadn't actually considered that. Hmmm...

 

[alex3619]

In Korea computer games are a national sport. They are televised. "Starcraft" is an example, probably the main example though I they might have moved on to "Starcraft 2". Yet a completely sedentary activity like that, at a sporting level, would be far beyond most of us. The concentration and stress alone could make us uncompetitive - and I like playing Starcraft. Bye, Alex

 

[Merry]

Nielk suggested synchronized posting as an Olympic sport on this thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...y-trigger-suicide-attempts.18943/#post-288560

 

[biophile]

I'm not sure what kind of "sports" we could even do without problems. Other issues would include accurate diagnosis and measuring disability for categories. The competition would probably end up being dominated by chronic fatigue patients who are mildly affected, relatively fit, and without major post-exertional symptomatology. Spectators would then retort that patients who claim to be ill can compete in a sport and run circles running around the spectators!

 

[Esther12]

Badminton : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16253389

One thing that makes fatigue a difficult one for the paralympics, is that one of the things seen as worthy about athletes is their willingness to push on through fatigue, out of a commitment to their endeavour. While I expect many of us push on through incredible fatigue occasionally, there is no measure for this, relative to those without similar problems. So long as there's such a poor understanding of the nature and cause of our health problems, it would be difficult for our efforts to be seen as impressive.

 

[jimells]

Whenever I get an MRI I tell the techs that I'm an expert at lying still - how about a contest to see who could stay in the MRI the longest without moving - while *not* wearing ear plugs

 

[ukxmrv]

There could also be the problem of ME and CFS patients competing, pushing themselves and dropping dead of course

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brynmor_John

The circumstances of his later life and early death have become widely known, and frequently quoted, amongst those doctors and patients wishing to warn of the alleged medical dangers of one particular school of thought concerning treatment of the illness Chronic fatigue syndrome.

Brynmor John had been diagnosed with this illness, and died suddenly immediately upon exiting the House of Commons gym. He had been following an exercise regime based on what many now argue is ill-informed and unfounded medical advice: that sufferers may exercise their way toward a cure for the illness

 

[Snow Leopard]

Whenever I get an MRI I tell the techs that I'm an expert at lying still - how about a contest to see who could stay in the MRI the longest without moving - while *not* wearing ear plugs

LOL

I'm terrible at that.

 

[peggy-sue]

I've never thought about being chronically ill AND disabled before.
Disabled; yes. Disabled by a chronic illness; yes.
A bit miffed that the distinction between say, an amputee and myself would allow the amputee to hold down a good full time job, while I struggle to cope with the very basics of existence,
But I've never really thought about it too hard.

I'm really depressed and upset about it now!
(don't worry, I shall integrate it and get over it )

 

[Holmsey]

Squint resisting, the competitor is exposed to ever greater degrees of light and mesured on their resistance to squinting.
Sweating, the competitor attempts to sleep while minimising fevered sweating, lowest volume wins
Twitching, muscle facilations per minute are measured, ascending twitches per round just like the high jump.

You lot are just not trying, there's loads of things we'd be good at.

 

[In Vitro Infidelium]

Badminton : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16253389

One thing that makes fatigue a difficult one for the paralympics, is that one of the things seen as worthy about athletes is their willingness to push on through fatigue, out of a commitment to their endeavour. While I expect many of us push on through incredible fatigue occasionally, there is no measure for this, relative to those without similar problems. So long as there's such a poor understanding of the nature and cause of our health problems, it would be difficult for our efforts to be seen as impressive.

But doesn't that avoid the principle of paralympic sport which works on the basis of moderating the level of competion relative to the degree of disablement ? If ME/CFS sufferers were to have a class of defined participation, then all the limiting aspects of the illness would have to be accounted for - fatigue, perception limitation, concentration difficulty, cognitive difficulty etc.

There are obviously major practical problems, and there would need to be an agreed medical perspective for any organised sport to happen without liability for a worsened condition being unfairly apportioned to the organisers, but the position of automatic exclusion of M.E/CFS participation in competition seems wrong in principle.

CM

 

[Esther12]

But doesn't that avoid the principle of paralympic sport which works on the basis of moderating the level of competion relative to the degree of disablement ? If ME/CFS sufferers were to have a class of defined participation, then all the limiting aspects of the illness would have to be accounted for - fatigue, perception limitation, concentration difficulty, cognitive difficulty etc.

There are obviously major practical problems, and there would need to be an agreed medical perspective for any organised sport to happen without liability for a worsened condition being unfairly apportioned to the organisers, but the position of automatic exclusion of M.E/CFS participation in competition seems wrong in principle.

CM

Sometimes practicalities can highlight problems with our ideals.

If we were able to genuinely ensure that everyone's disadvantages were adequately accounted for, then every contest would be down to pure luck, or else end in a draw! I guess this touches upon the tensions within compatabilist understandings of free will - what should we be judged for?

It would be nice if we had sufficient understanding of our health problems to be able to allow for them to be taken in to account in a (somewhat) fair manner... but such a breakthrough would make our lives and ability to interact with society much easier in many ways (I've just been dealing with the DWP... we've got a way to go).

How fair would that be though? Should a patient with a health problem have their disadvantages taken in to account any more than someone unfortunate enough to have been born with a lower than normal IQ? Or to have been raised by racists, and filled with unreasonable hate? What about people whose health problems resulted from their own actions?

I've gone off-topic again, haven't I?

 

[In Vitro Infidelium]

Sometimes practicalities can highlight problems with our ideals.

If we were able to genuinely ensure that everyone's disadvantages were adequately accounted for, then every contest would be down to pure luck, or else end in a draw! I guess this touches upon the tensions within compatabilist understandings of free will - what should we be judged for?

It would be nice if we had sufficient understanding of our health problems to be able to allow for them to be taken in to account in a (somewhat) fair manner... but such a breakthrough would make our lives and ability to interact with society much easier in many ways (I've just been dealing with the DWP... we've got a way to go).

How fair would that be though? Should a patient with a health problem have their disadvantages taken in to account any more than someone unfortunate enough to have been born with a lower than normal IQ? Or to have been raised by racists, and filled with unreasonable hate? What about people whose health problems resulted from their own actions?

I've gone off-topic again, haven't I?

I think I agree with you !?

What I was trying to get at was that performance by people with chronic illnesses could (with a degree of imagination) be categorised in a comparable manner as currently used in the Paralympics - there's a simple listing here: London 2012 Paralympics: The complete Paralympic sport classification guide showing how the system works.

The punitive and manipulative attitudes of the DWP/ATOS of course provide a huge dissincentive to even thinking about this kind of thing - but Governments and Social attitudes can change, so IMO addressing these sorts of questions is still worthwhile. Being perpetually forced into a position where we have to describe ourselves by what we can't do, rather than what we can, is not healthy, and though I would not encourage anyone with M.E/CFS to discuss publicly in their real world ID as to what they can and can't do - under pseudonyms and hypotheticals, it might be useful to have discussions that are more 'expansive'.

IVI

 

[SOC]

How about a standing still competition? You know, along the lines of a POTS test. I just don't know if we should designate the winner as the person who passes out first, or the person who passes out last.

 

[Sallysblooms]

I vote for last now that I am getting better, ha! I could have won first pass out before!