what if it's the methylation correction, not the glutathione that makes some better

[lizw118]

I have been wondering why supplementing glutathione directly seems to make some people worse, while supplementing the B vitamins in Rich's protocol makes some of the same people feel better. After reading a lot about epigenetics, I am wondering if maybe correcting the methyl block might positively affect our genetic phenotypes. The methyl groups turn on and off genes, so if there is a block, wouldn't that mess genes up?
So maybe it's not the glutathione going up, but ending the methylation block itself to enhance genetic expression that helps. Could that be true?

 

[richvank]

I have been wondering why supplementing glutathione directly seems to make some people worse, while supplementing the B vitamins in Rich's protocol makes some of the same people feel better. After reading a lot about epigenetics, I am wondering if maybe correcting the methyl block might positively affect our genetic phenotypes. The methyl groups turn on and off genes, so if there is a block, wouldn't that mess genes up?
So maybe it's not the glutathione going up, but ending the methylation block itself to enhance genetic expression that helps. Could that be true?

Hi, lizw.

My guess is that both are important. Because so many of the biochemical abnormalities and symptoms can be linked pretty directly to glutathione depletion, as I described in the Swedish seminar at http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/$%7Bweburl%7D I do think that raising glutathione is important. But the effect of methylation on gene expression has to be a significant thing, too, I think, as you've emphasized. This is a more difficult feature to get a grasp of, because of its more global nature.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[lizw118]

Hi, lizw.

My guess is that both are important. Because so many of the biochemical abnormalities and symptoms can be linked pretty directly to glutathione depletion, as I described in the Swedish seminar at http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/$%7Bweburl%7D I do think that raising glutathione is important. But the effect of methylation on gene expression has to be a significant thing, too, I think, as you've emphasized. This is a more difficult feature to get a grasp of, because of its more global nature.

Best regards,

Rich

Hi Rich
I watched parts of the seminar. It was great! I need to watch it again. And yes, you make an excellent case for the glutathione depletion. I also agree that methylation and glutathione are both important but it's more difficult to figure out the gene expression stuff because it is more global, as you mentioned. Re the methylation thing, I listened to a lecture about epigenetics in which methyl groups were fed to rats in an experiment. How does one supplement methyl groups directly? That sounded strange to me.
Liz

 

[nanonug]

How does one supplement methyl groups directly?

SAM-e? In many cases, it's probably the wrong way of going about things, though.

 

[richvank]

Hi, Liz and nanonug.

Yes, I guess supplementing SAMe would be how they did it, since SAMe is the main donor of methyl groups in the body. Some PWMEs have found this to be helpful, while others can't tolerate it. If the methylation cycle is restored, SAMe will come up to normal.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[maddietod]

Hi, Liz and nanonug.

Yes, I guess supplementing SAMe would be how they did it, since SAMe is the main donor of methyl groups in the body. Some PWMEs have found this to be helpful, while others can't tolerate it. If the methylation cycle is restored, SAMe will come up to normal.

Best regards,

Rich

So this makes me wonder.........if I want a cheap test to see if my methylation cycle has been restored, is there such a thing? Is there a SAMe test? Or.......what else would be possible?

Since I did the New Jersey test last fall, I'd have all of those values available for comparison.

 

[nanonug]

if I want a cheap test to see if my methylation cycle has been restored, is there such a thing? Is there a SAMe test?

Hmm, maybe Doctor's Data Methylation Profile?

 

[MityMito]

Hi, lizw.

My guess is that both are important. Because so many of the biochemical abnormalities and symptoms can be linked pretty directly to glutathione depletion, as I described in the Swedish seminar at http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/$%7Bweburl%7D I do think that raising glutathione is important. But the effect of methylation on gene expression has to be a significant thing, too, I think, as you've emphasized. This is a more difficult feature to get a grasp of, because of its more global nature.

Best regards,

Rich

Rich, I tried to listen to your web presentation but the volume was inaudibly low and the pause/play buttons kept returning me to the start. Do you have a link to a different server? I did manage to pick up that slide content was available to the attendees. Do you have that available via e-mail?
Thanks,
Ken

 

[richvank]

Hi, Ken.

Sorry, that's the only server I'm aware of. You should be able to get the slides by clicking on the words in blue located below the video. If that doesn't work, email me at richvank at aol dot com and I will send them to you as attachments.

Rich

 

[MityMito]

Thanks Rich, I got the slides and will try to follow it through. Very interesting.
Ken

 

[greenshots]

I asked my doctor this question on my follow up this week because she knows one of the scientists on the agouti mice experiment (mice fed methyls). They were fed cyanocobalamin (B12)' choline, betaine, & folic acid (plain). These were pregnant mice who carried a gene that we humans have too. It codes for cancer, heart dz, diabetes, and morbid obesity. All of the moms were fat, yellow coated mice where all of the baby mice were born as slender brown mice who lived to a ripe old age.

Can you imagine? They shut off some pretty bad genes by just feeding them some fairly crappy vitamins JUST during pregnancy! BTW, I meant that cyanocobalamin & folic acid were crummy even though the betaine & choline might be fine.
Anyway, I just thought this might be of interest to some.

Angela

Hi Rich
I watched parts of the seminar. It was great! I need to watch it again. And yes, you make an excellent case for the glutathione depletion. I also agree that methylation and glutathione are both important but it's more difficult to figure out the gene expression stuff because it is more global, as you mentioned. Re the methylation thing, I listened to a lecture about epigenetics in which methyl groups were fed to rats in an experiment. How does one supplement methyl groups directly? That sounded strange to me.
Liz

 

[Marco]

This study may be relevant as it discusses dietary and other environmental impacts on methylation via epigenetics in relation to ASD :

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...ors-Responsible-for-Autism-Epidemic-in-the-US