Results from my methylation treatment - week by week

[redo]

I intend to post my experiences here as they come. I have been sick for almost a decade, not being able to work, study or socialize. My symptoms are primarily these: Brain fog, memory problems, concentration problems, low blood pressure and high heart rate when standing up, numbness borderlining not being able to feel at all, I can't feel the position of my limbs, severe insomnia, barely being able to feel any emotion, and much more which makes it unbearable to live.

What I hope to achieve from doing the methylation protocol is mainly better sleep (in the long haul), being able to feel emotions more (another PWME had that symptom improve with SAM-e ++), less concentration problems and not getting dizzy when standing up. Hopefully I'll get a lot better all throughout, but the core of what hope will improve is that.

I have bought the supplements for a methylation protocol from Holistic Heal. In case anyone who's new to this wonders how they look, I uploaded an image here (see below).

I'll follow Richvank's methylation protocol.
General Vitamin Neurological Health Formula, beginning with a tablet and increasing the dosage as tolerated to 2 tablets daily.
Hydroxy B12 Mega Drops, 2 drops under the tongue daily (not sure if I am able to hold them there long enough for it to work)
MethylMate B: 3 drops under the tongue daily
Folinic acid: capsule daily (I'll divide the capsules into two, and take half of each of those each day).
Lecithin, one softgel capsule daily

I will probably begin later this week. First with the multivitamin, than with the other supplements added one by one.

I have been on SAM-e earlier, just for some days, and I got the strangest reaction; although I am not able to feel emotions, I got some sort of a feeling blue emotion, although very watered out. If I stuck with it, I might have got the same improvement in being able to feel emotions at all as the blogger mentioned in the link above.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hydroxy B12 Mega Drops, 2 drops under the tongue daily (not sure if I am able to hold them there long enough for it to work)

Just curious HOW LONG is it required to be held under the tongue...? I don't think mine is there longer than 30 seconds.

 

[aquariusgirl]

redo: you might need a lower dose of sam-e. I got definite feelings of depression at 400mg a day. Was fine on 200mg.
The yasko multi: general neurological formula. 2 is a big dose. I know healthy ppl who can't tolerate that amount... I actually wonder if anyone takes that amount...Yeah, I know its the recommended dosage..Just saying.
I know some of us are more toxic than others, but I would have some binders or chelators on hand.
And remember, most of us who started rich's SMP back in 2007 &2008 saw our glutathione go DOWN before it came UP, hence the excitotoxicity.. so you shld have some gaba or glutathione on hand for this side effect.
And potassium.. turns out you're probably gonna need potassium.
And you're missing a B complex.
And if you stick w/it & start dumping metals, you're gonna need minerals...
Good luck.

 

[becky82]

Thanks for starting this! I'll be checking in to see your updates. I'm really eager to see how things go for you. I have a lot of the same symptoms and would like to start the protocol soon too. I really hope you get some symptom improvement. Good luck!

 

[richvank]

Hi, redo.

I'm glad to hear that you are going to go for it, and I hope it will turn out to work for you.
It's not very critical how long you hold the drops under your tongue. Their volume is small enough that a lot of it will pass through the mucosa even if it spreads around the mouth.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[redo]

redo: you might need a lower dose of sam-e. I got definite feelings of depression at 400mg a day. Was fine on 200mg.
The yasko multi: general neurological formula. 2 is a big dose. I know healthy ppl who can't tolerate that amount... I actually wonder if anyone takes that amount...Yeah, I know its the recommended dosage..Just saying.
I know some of us are more toxic than others, but I would have some binders or chelators on hand.
And remember, most of us who started rich's SMP back in 2007 &2008 saw our glutathione go DOWN before it came UP, hence the excitotoxicity.. so you shld have some gaba or glutathione on hand for this side effect.
And potassium.. turns out you're probably gonna need potassium.
And you're missing a B complex.
And if you stick w/it & start dumping metals, you're gonna need minerals...
Good luck.

Thank you for your input aquariusgirl. Appreciated. Yes, you may be right that 200 mg would be better than 400 mg back than. I'll begin with the multi vitamin first, and work myself up to first one, than two tablets - if tolerated. Which binders or chelators where you thinking about? Are there any GABA brands you would recommend? Do you know which mechanism which lies behind potassium levels going down on this? I eat a lot of fish, fruit and vegetables (because I like'em, not primarely for health reasons), do you think that'll cover the potassium need? Doesn't the multivitamin contain the necesarry b-vitamins, aside from the B12?

Pheew, lot of questions. I hope you bear with me.

Thanks for starting this! I'll be checking in to see your updates. I'm really eager to see how things go for you. I have a lot of the same symptoms and would like to start the protocol soon too. I really hope you get some symptom improvement. Good luck!

It's good that you appreciate it :Retro smile:. I guess I'll start later this week, or early next week.

Hi, redo.

I'm glad to hear that you are going to go for it, and I hope it will turn out to work for you.
It's not very critical how long you hold the drops under your tongue. Their volume is small enough that a lot of it will pass through the mucosa even if it spreads around the mouth.

Best regards,

Rich

Thank you for the good wishes Rich! It's very good that they wont need to be held for long. It makes it all so much easier. I am looking forward to giving this a go.

 

[aquariusgirl]

I honestly can't remember if the yasko multi covers the bs but I doubt it, cos she has a separate Bcomplex that she recommends for ppl who follow her protocol.
Binders/chelators: Activated charcoal (but only works in the gut), sarsparilla (cleans up the blood) & then chelators...EDTA, OSR, Microsilica. The chelation thing is controversial. You'll have to research and decide what you are comfortable with.
I always thought that everybody got the early morning toxin dump that I get on methylation supps....but apparently this is not universal. If you do get a big toxin dump, I think it makes sense to have something on hand to mop it up, so it doesn't get recirculated, but you might not have this problem, which would be one less thing to worry about!
I buy gaba powder (life extension, i think? & make my own caps).
Both rich and Freddd have explained why they think potassium is important. There are a couple of threads on it.
good luck with it.

 

[redo]

Thanks for your reply aquarius girl. I checked which B-vitamins the multivitamin contained, and it's this:
Vitamin B-1 (as benfiotamine) 25 mg
Vitamin B-2 (as riboflavin) 12.5 mg
Niacin (as niacinamide) 37.5 mg
Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxal-5-phosphate) 12.5 mg
Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin) 250 mcg

Do you think that covers it? Do you have an opinion about extra b-vitamins Rich?

I really thought I'd do Rich's protocol 100% since I see many patients makes good progress on it.

 

[justy]

Good luck Redo

Justy.

 

[aquariusgirl]

not an expert.. but sounds like enough to start with...
you might be better off with coenzymated forms of the B2 and B6....more bioavialable as i understand... but that wld kinda depend on your biochemistry. the yasko pill might be fine.
One tip that I got from Klinghardt.. a green juice will stop massive heavy metal detox in its tracks. ONly tried it once, but worked a charm. Fortunately for me, I had a pre-made home-made green juice sitting in the fridge when I got into trouble with too much detox. I think the reason it works is something to do with changing the pH of the blood.. acid to alkaline.
In my experience, when you get die off or detox.. you need remedies...ready to go & to hand...I have OSR, Pectasol and charcoal & a glass of water by my bed.
But like I say, I'm beginning to realise that I may be an outlier in my response to the protocol... possibly because of KPU & a massive metals burden.
YMMV. Let's hope so.
If metals aren't a major problem, seems like you should look out for excitotoxicity and potassium shortage as possible problems... based on what we have learned.
Rich may have better advice.

 

[rydra_wong]

Redo are you sure this is all the B's in your multi? Because you said you have low blood pressure and when *I* have low blood pressure it is due to adrenal problems and as far as I know the adrenal gland needs B-5 (pantothenic acid or pantethene).

Also, have you checked your thyroid? The lab range is useless as it includes many sick people -- in fact it is scewed tosick people because healthy people seldom get their blood measured!). If TSH >=2.0 you are hypothyroid and it can cause brain fog. in th other board, many people said that fixing their thyroid fixed their brain fog. Hyper can cause brain fog as well. Also you should look at T3 as well as that is the active thyroid hormone. As long as you've been sick surely you have looked at your thyroid, but the key is knowing that the reference range is way off. You can read up more at www.lef.org search for thyroid blood test ranges. (Do you have elevated cholesterol? Because studies show that is caused by hypothyroid so ifyour cholesterol is raised, then that's prob. what causes your brain fog).

I apparently had thyroid issues my whole life and no one ever told me because of those stupid useless lab ranges.

Rydra
QUOTE]

 

[redo]

Redo are you sure this is all the B's in your multi? Because you said you have low blood pressure and when *I* have low blood pressure it is due to adrenal problems and as far as I know the adrenal gland needs B-5 (pantothenic acid or pantethene).

Also, have you checked your thyroid? The lab range is useless as it includes many sick people -- in fact it is scewed tosick people because healthy people seldom get their blood measured!). If TSH >=2.0 you are hypothyroid and it can cause brain fog. in th other board, many people said that fixing their thyroid fixed their brain fog. Hyper can cause brain fog as well. Also you should look at T3 as well as that is the active thyroid hormone. As long as you've been sick surely you have looked at your thyroid, but the key is knowing that the reference range is way off. You can read up more at www.lef.org search for thyroid blood test ranges. (Do you have elevated cholesterol? Because studies show that is caused by hypothyroid so ifyour cholesterol is raised, then that's prob. what causes your brain fog).

I apparently had thyroid issues my whole life and no one ever told me because of those stupid useless lab ranges.

Rydra
QUOTE]

Yes Rydra, you're right. I didn't know Pantothenic Acid was a b vitamin, so I didn't list it. It contains 50 mg of that. But I think that's with a serving size of 6, and I'll work my way up to 2. You can see the full content list here:
www.holisticheal.com/neurological-health-formula-general-vitaminhhc-general.html

Thank you for the tip about thyroid problems. I've got tested, and it was normal, but my cousin where within the normal range yet still benefited from taking thyroxin, so I was put on course. It didn't help me, but I think it was a wise move to give it a go. My cholesterol is thankfull normal.

 

[redo]

Tomorrow (Monday) I'll begin with the first supplement, one tablet of the Neurological Health Formula, working my way up to two tablets by Wednesday. I've had severe insomnia for years, but I just got my sleep back a little week ago, so I am beginning very slowly, to see what does what.

 

[Sushi]

Tomorrow (Monday) I'll begin with the first supplement, one tablet of the Neurological Health Formula, working my way up to two tablets by Wednesday.

Good luck with this! For me, one whole tablet of the Neurological Health Formula was too much to start with and it took a long time to be able to increase the dose. You might want to consider starting with a half to see how it goes. Slow increases in dosing for all the supplements on this protocol, seem to make it easier for most.

Best wishes,
Sushi

 

[redo]

I've been on the Neurological Health Formula four days now. From the 12th (one pill), to the 13th (one pill), the 14th (two pills) and the 15th (two pills). The last days I have got a lot of tension problems, edgy stuff. It might very well be because I have overexerted myself on some tasks, which I shouldn't have done. I am not sure. I am thinking about dropping the pills for the weekend and see what happens.

 

[richvank]

I've been on the Neurological Health Formula four days now. From the 12th (one pill), to the 13th (one pill), the 14th (two pills) and the 15th (two pills). The last days I have got a lot of tension problems, edgy stuff. It might very well be because I have overexerted myself on some tasks, which I shouldn't have done. I am not sure. I am thinking about dropping the pills for the weekend and see what happens.

Hi, redo.

It could be excitotoxicity. A lot of people experience it when they start this protocol. It's due to too much glutamate in the synapses of the neurons in the brain. The glutamate is supposed to be pumped out and converted to glutamine by the astrocytes, and sent back to the neurons for re-use, but this takes ATP, and when glutathione is low, the mitochondria do not produce ATP as fast as normal. When this protocol is started, I suspect that glutathione initially drops even more, and that is what causes the excitotoxicity. Various things have been recommended by Amy Yasko to counter this, including GABA, theanine, magnesium, Valerian root, grape seed extract, pycnogenol, progesterone cream, and taurine. I think she is coming out with a "calm down spray," which will probably include several of these, but I haven't seen it yet.

Some people have also added liposomal glutathione, and some have reported benefit from it, while others could not tolerate it. Complicated.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[rydra_wong]

Yes Rydra, you're right. I didn't know Pantothenic Acid was a b vitamin, so I didn't list it. It contains 50 mg of that. But I think that's with a serving size of 6, and I'll work my way up to 2. You can see the full content list here:
www.holisticheal.com/neurological-health-formula-general-vitaminhhc-general.html

Thank you for the tip about thyroid problems. I've got tested, and it was normal, but my cousin where within the normal range yet still benefited from taking thyroxin, so I was put on course. It didn't help me, but I think it was a wise move to give it a go. My cholesterol is thankfull normal.

Your supplement actually has a full spectrum of 11 B vitamins (something I rarely see anymore, but like) however it uses folic acid not mfolate and cyanocobalamine so it wouldn't be my choice. Also not too sure about the NAC...it really destroys methylation for some people. I am impressed with the other stuff in there like the broccoli and carnitine - well I don't remember what all.

Does taking the full multi bother you in some way? It seems to me that the doses in the multi are generally small because they have chosen to put in a little bit of everything. So I think a-priori this multi is a small dose. Maybe no need to take only a bit at a time.

Rydra

Oh, sorry, now I ead your last post. Are yu taking potassium? Didn't you say you felt tension? I thought we were saying that is a common symptom of low potassium??

 

[redo]

I am not sure what's going on. The tension has stopped, but I've got more brain fog and somewhat swollen lymph nodes in the neck. What I've done now is to put the supplement on hold, and will start up again once things stabilize.

It might very well be excitotoxicity like you mention rich. Thanks for the input. I'd really like to start up again, so hopefully it's from the overexertion I did some days ago. Things are really unstable nowadays so it's hard to exactly. I've got a little sore throat also.

Of the things in the list (appreciated), I've got both magnesium and GSE which I could give a go. I'll wait some days and see what happens.

Thank you for your post Rydra. There's some potassium in the pills I were recently taking. Potassium (as citrate) 5 mg, but that's probably for a dose of 6 pills.

 

[redo]

I am still more unstable. More concentration problems, and it takes less to get worse. It might be a start up reaction I sometimes get from metronidazole (I am on than in the weekends), it might be a side effect from high doses of melatonin, and it might be something the multi vit has kickstarted (and, ofc, it might be "natural fluctuations").

Anyway, I am thinking about starting the methylation protocol in another end than the multi vit. Beginning with B12, or folinic acid, and adding the others one by one.

 

[richvank]

I am still more unstable. More concentration problems, and it takes less to get worse. It might be a start up reaction I sometimes get from metronidazole (I am on than in the weekends), it might be a side effect from high doses of melatonin, and it might be something the multi vit has kickstarted (and, ofc, it might be "natural fluctuations").

Anyway, I am thinking about starting the methylation protocol in another end than the multi vit. Beginning with B12, or folinic acid, and adding the others one by one.

Hi, redo.

Metronidazole is known to produce oxidative stress and thus place a demand on glutathione. I suspect when used by a person with ME/CFS, it lowers glutathione further. That may be contributing to what's going on.

Best regards,

Rich