Acetyl-glutathione anyone?

[Rosebud Dairy]

Symptomatically, how does one know when excitotoxicity is occurring?

 

[Dreambirdie]

Adb12 works primarily to produce ATP. Now ATP is a necessary item for a lot of enzymes to do their work, supplying energy for them. However, a lot of people have used the word "excitotoxicity" to describe what is probably more correctly just plain "excito" from more energy generation. Mb12 tends to combine directly with many toxins transporting them out of the body. It also directly protects neurons agains glutatmate toxicity. So again, waking up nerves is excitatory without anything toxic about it.

When I use the word excitotoxicity, what I mean is being excessively wired from toxicity. Maybe the correct word is overmethylation. But whatever the word may be, I know how horribly overstimulating this feels in my body and how many setbacks it has caused me. I surely know the difference btwn what I feel to be normal energy generation and being excessively wired and overstimulated from too much B12 and from the toxins that are mobilized, but not properly eliminated when I get too much of it.

My point is: Trust your instincts and listen to your body. Theories come and go, but the reality of this disease, and what works for who when is far beyond any of them.

 

[Rosebud Dairy]

OK, so wired, buzzing, hyper, etc.

I have had something similar. At times, I would get extremely emotionally agitated caused by nothing in particular, emotionally speaking - almost like a panic attack, but not exactly. When I was at my worst, there would be a physical buzzing or even shaking. But, unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly what I might have been short on.

I have noticed that, in me, folic acid, may cause rage-type emotional symptoms accompanied by almost perhaps adrenaline surge type physical feelings. It could be called low folate or too much folic acid - biochemically I just can't tell you exactly what is happening there. It just feels like the brain has turned off for the day.

@ Dreambirdie -
I just wanted to get an idea of exactly what YOU are feeling, symptomatically from it. Thank you. I do not discount the reality of your symptoms. I have suffered enough scorn and derision from friends and family regarding that.

When we are specific, we can help each other more, and that is why we are here. I hope you are able to resolve those symptoms quickly. I wish I were able to be more specific about biochemical stuff like Freddd, and Richvank are. I definitely key in to emotions faster than chemistry!

 

[SJB944]

Dreambirdie,

I found ADB12 to cause depression also. Initially I found it felt nice, but then after cutting back from 1 tablet a day to 1 tablet a week I notice a strong depressive impact. So stopped taking it and depression cleared.

Recently started taking half a tablet a day, and seem to keep the depressive symptoms at bay. Not sure how much you are taking, but it may be worth inceasing amount or frequency.

I was very sensitive to Mb12 initially also, and traditionally to just about everything else - had to start on 1/8 of a 1mg tablet once a week.

SJB.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hey SJB--

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I have found the adB12 to be the least tolerable for me. I do best with irregular low doses of hydroxy and methylmate. (Rich's protocol) But I can now take an occasional 500 mcg of MB12, which is a miracle. The first few times I tried it I felt like my brain was on speed for 2 days.

I have a lot of heavy metal toxicity and have to be careful how much I mobilize out of my system at one time. In my case increasing methylation gets the toxins moving. (I have proved this to myself by doing lab tests--heavy metal stool tests at the time of my symptoms.)

Going slow is the best bet for me right now.

 

[hixxy]

Heavy metal detox has nothing to do with exitotoxicity. Whether exitotoxicity is involved in depression is an open question, but there could be many reasons for that. Methylfolate is actually used in the treatment of depression, and I have never seen any evidence that it can cause it. And as I said earlier, mb12 has been shown in studies to protect neurons from exitotoxicity.

According to Dr Blaylock excitotoxicty isn't limited to excitotoxic neurotransmitters -- it relates pretty much to anything that is able to cause execessive activation of excitotoxic receptors and therefore excessive firing of neurons. Toxins are capable of this -- this is actually how they typically cause their neurological damage -- therefore going through detox of certain toxins DOES cause excitotoxicity.

I'm going to errr on the side of caution now. I'm going to wait for my 23anme test to come back and then I'm going to try and find someone who will sign off on the methylation panel for me. I might make an appointment with a naturopath just specifically for that. I am just TOO sensitive for guessing on my treatments now.

 

[Dreambirdie]

According to Dr Blaylock excitotoxicty isn't limited to excitotoxic neurotransmitters -- it relates pretty much to anything that is able to cause execessive activation of excitotoxic receptors and therefore excessive firing of neurons. Toxins are capable of this -- this is actually how they typically cause their neurological damage -- therefore going through detox of certain toxins DOES cause excitotoxicity.

Thank you, hixxy.

Whatever you want to call it, I wouldn't recommend it! In fact, I would do my best to not trigger it.

 

[adreno]

I see Rich has actually made a thread on this. So it seems that it's not the B vitamins that are exitotoxic themselves, but starting the methylation protocol can cause an initial drop in glutathione, which can increase exitotoxicity. Here's the thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...citotoxity-on-the-methylation-block-treatment

 

[hixxy]

I was seeing a doctor last year (until my $$ run out -- he was very expensive). At my first appointment he said immediately that I wouldn't tolerate ANY mitochondrial support. It would worsen my brain overstimulation. He said whatever infection it is that is causing my major NMDA hyperactivation needed to be addressed first. Then we got the testing done, and of course I had intestines full from start to finish with H2S producing bacteria. The unfortunate thing is, upon eradicating this, I still had significant gut problems / fermentation and associated neurological problems and nothing is showing up on testing!

Seems in some ways we are crippled by the tests we have to rely on for diagnosis. I believe I have hidden parasitic infections causing it. Not to mention my SIBO just keeps on returning!

He said once you find an eradicating the infection causing the significant amount of NMDA hyperactivation, addressing the rest is a lot easier. I guess this comes back to addressing infections before doing methylation protocol? Kind of hard when you don't know what it is !

The gut seems to always be a mystery in this disease!

 

[hixxy]

Thank you, hixxy.

Whatever you want to call it, I wouldn't recommend it! In fact, I would do my best to not trigger it.

I'ts just like if you look at the NO/ONOO- cycle theories from Martin Pall. He theories many ways through which the NMDA receptor can be hyperactivated (including environmental toxins). Mercury and aluminum also can activate the NMDA receptor through various mechanisms, so moving this around in your body isn't going to be so much fun.

H2S produced by dysbiosis activates the NMDA receptor producing excitotoxicity.

I'm sure there are many more examples, my memory is just short and I'm feeling to lazy to go looking.

 

[hixxy]

BTW, I ordered my Acetyl-Glutathione yesterday. Being in Australia, it will probably take aeons to get here. Will post back when I test it though. I've tried so many forms, hopefully this one will not trigger off MCS reactions!!! Stick the capsule in my mouth, swallow then quickly chuck food on top of it. Sigh.

 

[hixxy]

OK, so wired, buzzing, hyper, etc.

I have had something similar. At times, I would get extremely emotionally agitated caused by nothing in particular, emotionally speaking - almost like a panic attack, but not exactly. When I was at my worst, there would be a physical buzzing or even shaking. But, unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly what I might have been short on.

I have noticed that, in me, folic acid, may cause rage-type emotional symptoms accompanied by almost perhaps adrenaline surge type physical feelings. It could be called low folate or too much folic acid - biochemically I just can't tell you exactly what is happening there. It just feels like the brain has turned off for the day.

@ Dreambirdie -
I just wanted to get an idea of exactly what YOU are feeling, symptomatically from it. Thank you. I do not discount the reality of your symptoms. I have suffered enough scorn and derision from friends and family regarding that.

When we are specific, we can help each other more, and that is why we are here. I hope you are able to resolve those symptoms quickly. I wish I were able to be more specific about biochemical stuff like Freddd, and Richvank are. I definitely key in to emotions faster than chemistry!

Seems I'm going overboard with the posts here, but.

Does your physical buzzing get worse soon after eating? I've had this for years since my dysbosis got really bad. I've always called it my inner vibration. It would come and go on a daily basis, but almost always after eating.

 

[adreno]

I'ts just like if you look at the NO/ONOO- cycle theories from Martin Pall. He theories many ways through which the NMDA receptor can be hyperactivated (including environmental toxins). Mercury and aluminum also can activate the NMDA receptor through various mechanisms, so moving this around in your body isn't going to be so much fun.

H2S produced by dysbiosis activates the NMDA receptor producing excitotoxicity.

I'm sure there are many more examples, my memory is just short and I'm feeling to lazy to go looking.

Looks like you're right; mercury does activate the NMDA receptors. Here's a study that shows it:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16465247/

 

[Adster]

Hixxy, have you tried just dissolving an l-glutathione cap in a ml or 2 of water and rubbing it on your skin? I think only a tiny bit is absorbed but it seems to work. Smells a bit ordinary though!

 

[adreno]

I was seeing a doctor last year (until my $$ run out -- he was very expensive). At my first appointment he said immediately that I wouldn't tolerate ANY mitochondrial support. It would worsen my brain overstimulation. He said whatever infection it is that is causing my major NMDA hyperactivation needed to be addressed first. Then we got the testing done, and of course I had intestines full from start to finish with H2S producing bacteria. The unfortunate thing is, upon eradicating this, I still had significant gut problems / fermentation and associated neurological problems and nothing is showing up on testing!

Seems in some ways we are crippled by the tests we have to rely on for diagnosis. I believe I have hidden parasitic infections causing it. Not to mention my SIBO just keeps on returning!

He said once you find an eradicating the infection causing the significant amount of NMDA hyperactivation, addressing the rest is a lot easier. I guess this comes back to addressing infections before doing methylation protocol? Kind of hard when you don't know what it is !

The gut seems to always be a mystery in this disease!

This is a chicken and egg problem again. It's hard to fight infection without a properly functioning methylation cycle. Maybe doing both simultaneously?

 

[hixxy]

Hixxy, have you tried just dissolving an l-glutathione cap in a ml or 2 of water and rubbing it on your skin? I think only a tiny bit is absorbed but it seems to work. Smells a bit ordinary though!

I've done transdermal glutathione, and the strong glutathione smell drives my MCS mad. It stays on your hands too. So I'd have to wear gloves to apply it otherwise every time I touched my face I'd react. God MCS is a nightmare. Life was a lot easier with just CFS.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I've done transdermal glutathione, and the strong glutathione smell drives my MCS mad. It stays on your hands too. So I'd have to wear gloves to apply it otherwise every time I touched my face I'd react.

The TD glutathione is my saving grace. I squeeze it onto one arm, and rub my other arm against it until it is absorbed into the skin on both arms. That way I don't get it on my hands at all.

God MCS is a nightmare. Life was a lot easier with just CFS.

I hear you! I have had both for 30+ years.

 

[hixxy]

Even on my arms is bad too. Only place I can apply it is the arches of my feet and because I can't rotate lots of spots, it seems to start losing its effectiveness. Before I stopped tolerating it earlier last year, I actually got my MCS to improve a fair bit. Then I went backwards again after a lengthy trip in traffic to a doctor appointment. I only do phone consult now

 

[Rosebud Dairy]

Seems I'm going overboard with the posts here, but.

Does your physical buzzing get worse soon after eating? I've had this for years since my dysbosis got really bad. I've always called it my inner vibration. It would come and go on a daily basis, but almost always after eating.

Mine is not frequent. Some of it was tinnitus - really hearing buzzing or ringing, knowing that it isn't real. Sometimes I had this twitch/buzz thing in my throat that felt like I had a tiny bit of food stuck in my throat that just refused to go down - maddening! Often this one would be after eating.

Sometimes a hand will feel buzzy.

 

[hixxy]

I've finished nearly a bottle of 60 300mg acetyl-glutathione capsules and I can't say I'm overly impressed. I'm starting to think that maybe acetyl-glutathione doesn't absorb so well if you have significant dysbiosis/gut inflammation. I get far more out of TD glutathione and liposomal glutathione.

The taking of acetyl-glutathione was far more tolerable for me though, so it's a damn shame it wasn't more helpful.