Liquid Betaine Hydrochloride

[janet]

Hi new to this forum but finding it very useful with all the info - could sit reading it for days and still be more.

My problem is constant stomach bloating - i'm at my wits end having tried loads of things i.e. homeopathy, probiotics and digestive enzymes - the latter two help for about 4 days then I get a feeling of being bloated all over like I've gone up a size - which is a horrible feeling and not something I want as I'm trying to lose weight. Why does probiotics and enzymes do this make me feel like my weight has increased - is this temporary, would it settle down? So I quit after the four days. Green tea helps but after 4 days I get the bloated all over feeling.

My diet is restricted having done anti candida diet and restricting sugar, wheat and yeast yet still I bloat.

So not really sure what it is or where I go from here.

I bought some liquid betaine hydrochloride and it's sitting in the cupboard as I'm nervous to take it - I aggravate on most things I take so have to take things very slow.

Can someone help me with the betaine - what will it do for me - will it help the stomach bloating, will it make my weight go up, will it give me the bloated all over feeling after 4 days - does it have any side effects.

Despite a restricted diet for what I eat I should look anorexic - yet I don't because I find the weight very difficult to take off.

I'm desperate now as I just don't know what else to do, where else to go and how do you get checked out - our GP doesn't believe in alternative therapies etc.

Any help on the betaine will be greatly received, and also why probiotics and enzymes do that - because when I take them I do get a feel good factor.

Thanks everyone.

 

[ramakentesh]

Do you get bad gas out of interest?

 

[Valentijn]

Can someone help me with the betaine - what will it do for me - will it help the stomach bloating, will it make my weight go up, will it give me the bloated all over feeling after 4 days - does it have any side effects.

Betaine is a natural substance produced by the body and found it some foods. It's purpose is to convert homocysteine back to methionine, which is good because high homocysteine levels are bad. It shouldn't cause problems, as far as I know.

 

[janet]

I get a little bit of gas I don't even get much pain - just constant stomach bloating - sometimes it feels like there's water squishing about other times it seems hard and takes on a "glossy" look.

I do have food sensitivities but that tends to effect me in the way of my face and eyes puffing out, chills from the inside to the out, pains in arms down back, spaced out feeling, tight chest, pains in jaw but if I avoid those foods I'm OK. It's every time I eat or drink I bloat.
Someone said HCI but I haven't been able to find many people who have used it give reviews on how it helped and does it increase weight. I react to most things so I have to check and check before I take anything.

 

[Waverunner]

The problem is that the cause of your symptom is unknown. I would highly encourage you to get a gastroscopy. It's an easy procedure and you will feel very relieved when you know that they found nothing. Do you have acid reflux? You can try the HCI without any concern, the problem however is, that when your stomach already produces too much acid and you already suffer from acid reflux, the Betaine HCL will make things worse.

 

[caledonia]

There is an easy way to test if your stomach acid is high or low. You drink some baking soda mixed in a glass of water and see how low it takes you to burp. There are more exact instructions to this which have been posted, maybe someone can find it and repost it here.

Anyway if your stomach acid is low, then you're good to try the betaine. However, I do question using a liquid version because it is acidic and it will be coating your teeth as it goes down. I would suggest rinsing your mouth out with water right after taking it.

I haven't had any bloating problem with digestive enzymes, probiotics or betaine hydrochloride, so I'm not sure what's going on in your case.

 

[maddietod]

The only other food I can think of that commonly causes bloating is dairy. Have you tried strict avoidance for a day or two?

 

[janet]

I only have first coffee of the day with a bit milk and one at 5 pm with milk - eat very little dairy.
I find I seem to manage 4 days before a problem with what I take emerges - not sure at all what it is.

I sometimes take apple cider vinegar and I never get a burning feeling in my stomach so could that be a sign of low stomach acid? And has anyone experienced weight gain taking it.

 

[janet]

I've tried green tea that helps then four days in I get real bad bloating with that.

I try to get supplements that are free of yeast wheat, soya, dairy etc. etc. so chose the liquid but you have to dilut in water - thing is it doesn't say when to take it just not to take on an empty stomach - when shouldl I take it.

And if you take the tablets - what does everyone use?

 

[dannybex]

Betaine is a natural substance produced by the body and found it some foods. It's purpose is to convert homocysteine back to methionine, which is good because high homocysteine levels are bad. It shouldn't cause problems, as far as I know.

That's a different form of betaine Valentijn. I think you're talking about Betaine Anhydrous, which is also known as TMG, or trimethylglycine.

She's talking about betaine hydrochloride, or hydrochloric acid, produced in the stomach if one has sufficient levels of zinc, histidine, and some of the b vitamins, but also available as a supplement until one can produce sufficient amounts naturally.

I agree w/Caledonia's recommendations.

 

[janet]

Yes that's correct betaine hydrochloride is the information I'm looking for - is there any difference in taking it in tablet for or liquid - does one work better than the other?

 

[maryb]

Baking Soda Test
Stir 1/4 tsp. baking soda into an 8-oz. glass of cold water as soon as you wake up in the morning. Ensure you do not eat or drink anything. Mix the baking soda and water thoroughly.
Drink all of the water and baking soda solution, then use a timer or clock to see how long it takes for you to belch.
Stop timing when 5 minutes have passed. If you belched in 2 to 3 minutes, your stomach produces enough hydrochloric acid. Your stomach has low hydrochloric acid if you have not belched within the 5 minutes. Repeated belching early during this test means your stomach may be producing too much hydrochloric acid


I would do this test first then if acid low, I wouldn't have thought I tablet of Betaine HCI would hurt, I am sensitive to a lot of things, but this is an acid normally found in the stomach.
I wouldn't take liquid as you dont want any acid going over the teeth, I would get low dose to start with and then if okay increase, need to swallow the tablet quickly if you try this.(I'm not a doc and the main thing to contra-indicate these is peptic ulcers, so as long as you are sure you haven't this condition)

ps sometimes tablets are mixed with other things like bromelain, I'm sensitive to that so check the label I take a low dose formula with pepsin.

 

[Sushi]

You can also buy liquid hydrochloric acid if you don't want the extra betaine. Too much betaine can affect methylation.

http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/Hydrochloric-Acid-1-500-Liquid-16-fl.-oz.-500mL-p-290.html

Best,
Sushi

 

[janet]

HI Sushi
What's the difference without the betaine in it and what is methylation. Which is best which would sort the bloating out better

 

[Sushi]

HI Sushi
What's the difference without the betaine in it and what is methylation. Which is best which would sort the bloating out better

Hi Janet,

Methylation is a huge subject and there is a whole section of the forum dedicated to it as most patients have a block in methylation--which is critical to health.

If your bloating is from low acidity (I'd also recommend the baking soda burp test), then you want the hydrochloric acid more than the betaine. If you take a low dose of the betaine-HCL capsules (say one or two with each meal) the extra betaine may not be significant. It could be at higher doses though. But I am no expert here--though there are experts on this subject on this forum.

But I do think you need to discover the cause of the bloating before trying to treat it.

Best wishes,
Sushi

 

[Waverunner]

Honestly, do a gastroscopy. Anything else is pure speculation.

 

[janet]

Does your doc get you one done and what do they do?

 

[Sushi]

Does your doc get you one done and what do they do?

Yes, your doctor orders it. How that works depends on what country you are in. In the US you can simply go to a gastroenterologist, describe your symptoms and ask for one. They give you sedation (generally) and put a camera down there, look at what is going on and often take samples for analysis.

Sushi

 

[dannybex]

You can also buy liquid hydrochloric acid if you don't want the extra betaine. Too much betaine can affect methylation.

http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/Hydrochloric-Acid-1-500-Liquid-16-fl.-oz.-500mL-p-290.html

Best,
Sushi

But...again...isn't the betaine you're talking about "TMG"? Isn't that completely different from betaine hydrochloride? Edit: Maybe not, see below...

If not, then it would indeed be quite interesting to do a poll on the topic, asking how many people have low stomach acid and methylation problems...and/or normal or high stomach acid and methylation problems, etc.. I wonder if Rich has looked into this?

We've had a couple different speakers at our local support group in past years say that they've found almost everyone with CFS/ME has low HCL (betaine HCL). And Rich says almost everyone who has tested has a methylation problem.

This is interesting -- the wiki page on TMG:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylglycine

"Trimethylglycine (TMG) is an organic compound that occurs in plants as either glycine betaine or a choline-containing glycine betaine compound. Trimethylglycine was the first betaine discovered by science; originally it was simply called betaine because, in the 19th century, it was discovered in sugar beets.[1] Since then, many other betaines have been discovered, and the more specific name glycine betaine distinguishes this one.

Trimethylglycine is an N-trimethylated amino acid. This quaternary ammonium exists as the zwitterion at neutral pH. Strong acids such as hydrochloric acid converts TMG to the salt betaine hydrochloride."

So...then why are products labeled betaine hydrochloride (with pepsin) also synonymous with hydrochloric acid?

CON-FUSING.

But thanks for your post Sushi!

Maybe Rich will see this thread. It would be interesting to know how does too much betaine affect methylation -- and what is "too much"? Do people with normal stomach acid have less of a tendency to have methylation problems?

Dan

 

[janet]

I live in the UK - it's a very complex subject - understanding and digesting it all - test sounds pretty yuk though. My only problem is the bloating and perhaps a bit constipation - I very rarely get pain or cramps, energy levels are fine don't seem to have any of the problems associated with some other illness on here - just bloating. I know I tested positive for a sensitivity to cane and beet sugar but not demerara but I really restrict sugar as far as i can - OK sometimes there is hidden sugars in food but I' m very careful and to be honest my diet is very clean! Some days it seems to be worse than others yet my diet doesn't have anything in it that day that was much different to the day before.