Mending adrenal glands - rising cortisol and feeling DRASTICALLY improved

[snowathlete]

Yeah im going to start non hormone, as i suspect my adrenal fatigue is a consequence of the CFS/ME. I am trying to support the immune system and adrenals, while taking what i can to kill herpes viruses and stop them replicating with stuff like Valtrex (though i am waiting on blood tests before i start those).

If this plan of attack doesnt work then i will look into the hormone area more.

thanks
joel

 

[heapsreal]

Yeah im going to start non hormone, as i suspect my adrenal fatigue is a consequence of the CFS/ME. I am trying to support the immune system and adrenals, while taking what i can to kill herpes viruses and stop them replicating with stuff like Valtrex (though i am waiting on blood tests before i start those).

If this plan of attack doesnt work then i will look into the hormone area more.

thanks
joel

Thats the go. Sounds like a good plan.

cheers!!!

 

[Athene]

Hi Snowathlete!

I've looked up the dosages in the book, here's what it says (I've used caps to indicate what I've inserted, not shouting!)

OK my order arrived today and I'm starting these suplements now as part of my overal treatment plan.
This is what I got which I think is fairly close to what the Veronica listed? I plan to take one of each a day. Veronica, some are lower than your taking. Do you think i need to take more? Especially Vitamin C, where you are taking 4X as much as I am thinking of taking, as even 1500mg looks like a lot to me. Whats your take on this?

COMPLETE B (which includes among other things 100mg of B5, 25mg B3, 25mg of B12) THIS IS FINE
P-5-P (B6) 50 mg ALSO FINE
VITAMIN C-1500 mg. with ROSE HIPS Time Releas BOOK SAYS "OF ALL THE VITAMINS ADN MINERALS IN THE ADRENAL METABOLISM, VITAMIN C IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT. THE MORE CORTISOL IS MADE, THE MORE VITAMIN C IS USED." HE ADDS THAT THEY USED TO TEST BLOOD LEVELS OF VITAMIN C AS A MEASURE OF ADRENAL FUNTION BEFORE THE CORTISOL TEST WAS DEVELOPED, AS THEY ARE SO CLOSELY CORRELATED.
CHELATED CALCIUM (400mg) MAGNESIUM (1000mg) ZINC - THESE SHOULD BE FINE, THOUGH HE RECOMMENDS 750 TO 1000 CALCIUM IF YOU DON'T EAT DAIRY FOODS
NATURAL E-400 IU MIXED TOCOPHEROLS (400mg) HE'S VERY SPECIFIC YOU NEED 800 SO I'D TAKE 2 A DAY
PSYLLIUM HUSK SEED 100% NATURAL - FINE

I also didnt remember to get Vit B5, the B complex contains 100mg, but Veronica, you suggest 1500mg, so do i need to go buy some of these too? DEFINITELY GET THIS, HE SAYS B5 IS THE SECOND MOST IMPORTANT VITAMIN AND IS EMPHATIC THAT 1500 IS THE MINIMUM REQUIRED.

Thanks
Joel

I think the best thing with the C is to build up gradually. The timed release is a great idea, you'll absorb more. (If you have a phenol problem like I do, the rosehips will make you feel ill, as they are very high in polyphenols, but if not, they will be very good for you and make the C work better.)

BTW in case you haven't used psyllium husk before, you need to build up slowly over about a week to make sure you don't get constipated. You also need to drink LOTS of water with it.

Good luck with it and keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[ukme]

Athene along with the vitamins you list do you also take the actual James Wilson adrenal products (Adrenal Rebuilder, Stress Formula etc) ?
My daughter has been taking these and there has been no improvement whatsoever.

 

[heapsreal]

I think before u can successfully fix the adrenal hormone problem you have to be on top of whats causing the stress. In cfs/me it is the infection/s causing the stress but in saying that, some get improvement treating adrenals. If vitamins and herbs arent helping then maybe its time also to look into adrenal hormones like pregnenolone and dhea, but start much lower with doses then seen recommended for antiaging or straight forward hormone replacement therapy.

cheers!!!

 

[snowathlete]

How do i tell if i have a phenol problem?

The husk was gross! I forced myself to down it, with loads of water like you said.

I have a bad headache which started soon after i started these supplements yesterday. I guess that is normal though??

 

[Athene]

Hi Snowathlete,

I didn't get a headache, but I did feel a lot of toxins circulating. I think it could mean either you need to increase the dose of some methylation supplement (I needed more B12, I think you'd have to experiment) or else that you do have a phenol problem.

If phenols are a problem for you, the following things will make you feel ill:
Perfume, Wood smoke, cigarette smoke, lots of cleaning products (perfumed ones), various herbal medicines (phenol is not listed as an ingredient because it is a natural substance that exists in lots of plants); there are also phenols in the following foods,
Apricots
Berries and cherries
Oranges and tangerines
Pineapple
Red grapes
Tomatoes
Peppers
Mint
Anise (licorice)
Olives
Dill
But I do have to eat a lot of these foods to feel the symptoms.
The symptoms are stuffy nose (it all gets swollen inside), headache, tight breath, generally feeling grotty, and when it is really bad, nausea.

If quite a few things on that list make you feel ill then it could be worth switching to a Vitamin C without rosehips or bioflavonoids. Otherwise, I'd try upping methylation supplement dosages.

Yes, the psyllium husk is repulsive!!!! I have found some brands in capsule form, but you do have to swallow down so many of them, that becomes really unpleasant too. I keep oscillating between the two kinds of suffering!

Hi UKME,
I'm not taking any of the adrenal supplements, only the nutrients.

Is your daughter taking the nutrients at the dosages in the book as well, or the other supplements alone?
In the book he says give the nutrients 3 months, if that is not enough, try a herb or two as well, if that is still not enough, resort to adrenal extracts on top of that lot (i.e. his special products).

If she IS already on all the nutrients as well, then is she avoiding the forbidden things like caffeine etc?

I think Heapsreal made a good point too, that whatever chronic infections are exhausting the adrenals mean we are all struggling uphill. But I still think we can all get a degree of improvement on the status quo, if we get the right adrenal therapy.

 

[snowathlete]

CHELATED CALCIUM (400mg) MAGNESIUM (1000mg) ZINC - THESE SHOULD BE FINE, THOUGH HE RECOMMENDS 750 TO 1000 CALCIUM IF YOU DON'T EAT DAIRY FOODS
NATURAL E-400 IU MIXED TOCOPHEROLS (400mg) HE'S VERY SPECIFIC YOU NEED 800 SO I'D TAKE 2 A DAY

Thanks for that. I will increase my vitamin C and the Vit E then. I will probably ease myself into a higher dose as soon as the headaches lessen. I eat loads (too much probably) cheese and love milk, so the calcium should be ok.

Apricots
Berries and cherries
Oranges and tangerines
Pineapple
Red grapes
Tomatoes
Peppers
Mint
Anise (licorice)
Olives
Dill

i dont think any of those things cause me any problems. So presumably that means phenols arent a problem for me..?

Ive been speaking with Rich about his Methylation protocol. Im looking into maybe getting some tests done to see if that might be an issue for me.
I think the headache is okay as from what i read when your body starts to detox this stuff you get a Herx reaction (something which is widely accepted in the medical world - at least from what i have read) and so it should wear off after a few days, or weeks at the latest. If i still feel rough in three weeks then i will have to think again.

I squeezed a lime into the husk water and that made it more bareable, but still very unpleasant. Its like fury water.

Like you, i also agree with heapsreal that we are struggling against the tide, but my thought is that my immune system and adrenals are under a lot of pressure, and so i want to support them as much as i can, while i also try to tackle the potential cause (herpes viruses)

Thanks for your help everyone. I will report back.

 

[Marg]

I had been avoiding salt because of borderline high blood pressure. I was frightened when Dr. Klimas wanted to inject me with saline after the tilt table test, my bp was high that day. I was shocked, my bp came to normal. I now drink drinks that have salt and potassium balanced.

 

[Athene]

Hi Marg,

So the salt actually helped bring your blood pressure down? That's very interesting. Did Klimas explain how that works? It would be interesting to know if that really is caused by helping the adrenal glands, or some other mechanism.


Snowathlete,

You're absolutely right, it IS furry water! That really made me laugh! ))

And I think you are probably right about the detoxing herx causing the headache, too. In fact I've had a headache for the last few days and I feel a bit "poisoned" inside, so your comment has made me think something has gone wrong with my detoxing lately. I'm having a flare up of candida which will be increasing my toxic load a great deal, I guess that's the reason.

Are you taking lysine for your herpes virus? I take 3 grammes a day and it keeps it fully under control. When I first got herpes it was systemic, and attacked my liver and heart, as well as filling my whole oesophagus and mouth with sores. I've had several life-threatening illnesses and this was certainly one of them. After the initial crisis passed, I spent several years having several sores at a time on my lips and my throat, constantly, and occasional mild lesions on my liver (I don't know how many but they were found by chance twice in scans). I found out about Lysine ten years ago and since then I've had not more than 4 cold sores.

Your immune system uses lysine to fight the herpes virus, and the virus itself uses arginine to reproduce itself. If you make sure you always consume more lysine than arginine, you are ensuring your immune system has the upper hand. There's a whole diet you can follow, but I prefer to just use a supplement to tip the balance in my favour, because following the diet means cutting out a whole load of foods which are packed with all kinds of nutrition.

Your cheese fetish is very good, that's high in lysine and low in arginine. Nuts and seeds are among the worst offenders for giving the herpes virus a helping hand. Some medicines have arginine added, eg. some types of ibuprofen have it as this helps it act faster.

I won't go on in case you know this stuff already, but I can give you lots more info if you are interested.

 

[Valentijn]

So the salt actually helped bring your blood pressure down? That's very interesting. Did Klimas explain how that works? It would be interesting to know if that really is caused by helping the adrenal glands, or some other mechanism.

Maybe the high BP was due to low blood volume, in which case extra salt could increase blood volume, meaning the body doesn't have to work so hard to get the blood circulating? I suppose we're used to hearing that eating less salt lowers BP, but that might depend on what's causing the high BP in the first place.

 

[snowathlete]

Are you taking lysine for your herpes virus? I take 3 grammes a day and it keeps it fully under control.

I will be. Last week i ordered some coconut oil. But as it also contains argine I today ordered some lysine powder, which I found to be the most economical and of course i can vary the dose easily and make sure my lysine is higher than my argine.
It sounds like youve had a nightmare with herpes. I dont get any cold sores - well rarely at any rate - like once every few years maybe. My guess is that i have herpes viruses, like EBV as a result of having MONO badly when I teen. I am going to test my blood to see which i have and how much, but im waiting on my GP at the moment.
In the meantime i figure i have lost three years to this illness so far, so im starting treatment now.

Ive also ordered some whey protein as a means of testing if i have a methylation problem. I figure that if it helps alot then i probably do. Being in the UK i dont think i can easily access the tests that Rich reccomends for checking your methylation cycle.

I have cut out nuts and chocolate. Thanks for letting me know about ibuprofen. I usually take paracetamol, but will certainly avoid the ibuprofen if i can now.

Definately interested in more info. The more i understand this, the better the chance i will get better.

 

[Athene]

Hiya Snowathlete,

Lysine powder sounds good. What does it taste like? I've heard amino acids tend to be pretty foul. My tablets are so gigantic it feels like swallowing those pellets that make the water blue when you flush the loo.

Lysine does work well against EBV too, but you need higher doses than you do for HHV. I find my 3 grammes is just enough for EBV and abundantly adequate for HHV, but occasionally I have to go up to 5 grammes for brief periods when the EBV flares up. I only found out by experimenting (after two years of having non stop sore throat and constantly losing my voice) that Lysine also works against EBV. I just raised the dose as a desperate experiment. I'd like to find out more about EBV and the nutrients the body uses to fight it.
Amino acid doses are very closely related to body weight BTW. I'm a bit over 9 stone, if your weight is significantly different from this you'd need to adjust.

I'd definitely ask the chemist about arginine in ibuprofen. I am sure in England there are brands without it. I live in Italy now and they only seem to have one brand.

This web page is a list of foods with arginine and lysine content.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/l-lysine_rich_foods.html
It's good to get to know which foods are very high in arginine, as eating lot of them may mean you need take a bit of extra lysine to be on the safe side.

 

[snowathlete]

Lysine powder sounds good. What does it taste like?

I'll let you know when it arrives. It cant taste as bad as that husk stuff.

My tablets are so gigantic it feels like swallowing those pellets that make the water blue when you flush the loo.

I think you might have discovered whats been making you ill all this time! You must have a blue tongue! Bet you've got fresh smelling breath though!!

Lysine does work well against EBV too, but you need higher doses than you do for HHV. I find my 3 grammes is just enough for EBV and abundantly adequate for HHV, but occasionally I have to go up to 5 grammes for brief periods when the EBV flares up. I only found out by experimenting (after two years of having non stop sore throat and constantly losing my voice) that Lysine also works against EBV. I just raised the dose as a desperate experiment. I'd like to find out more about EBV and the nutrients the body uses to fight it.
Amino acid doses are very closely related to body weight BTW. I'm a bit over 9 stone, if your weight is significantly different from this you'd need to adjust.

I bought a kilo of the powder. Cost me 15.50. So i can afford to take a fairly high dose. I used to be about 12 stone, i was pretty fit, but then as i cant exercise now i have gained about 3 stone! So its handy to know that i will have to adjust the dose!

This web page is a list of foods with arginine and lysine content.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/tutor...ich_foods.html
It's good to get to know which foods are very high in arginine, as eating lot of them may mean you need take a bit of extra lysine to be on the safe side.

Thanks so much for this. I was thinking earlier today that i needed to find just such a website! I want to improve my diet (which is hard because i dont have energy to prepare/cook much anymore) the last thing i want to do is eat the wrong thing. At least if i do now, then i can up my Lysine dose that day. Thanks again!

 

[snowathlete]

My headache is mostly gone now, thankfully. Yesterday it was really bad until evening.
It had started when i first went on the supplements three days ago. In the end i had a really hot bath with lots of sea salt and baking powder (which i read i supposed to help remove toxins through your skin - is this true? I dont know, but the headache was better after that, and after sleep it was alot better. I feel less toxic today.

The coconut oil and oregano oil arrived today, and thats what i am using as part of my EBV treatment. So just took that too. The coconut oil was a bit like coconut essence and lard mixed together. Not great, but hopefully it will help.

 

[ukme]

Is your daughter taking the nutrients at the dosages in the book as well, or the other supplements alone?
In the book he says give the nutrients 3 months, if that is not enough, try a herb or two as well, if that is still not enough, resort to adrenal extracts on top of that lot (i.e. his special products).

If she IS already on all the nutrients as well, then is she avoiding the forbidden things like caffeine etc?

Hi Athene, she is just following the adrenal supplement route as per his website recommendations. I will have to try the nutrient route, although she is taking all of the nutrients you list (minus the fibre) but not in the high quantities .

Are you worried about oxalates with taking such a high dosage vitamin C? I must say I have become abit cautious about oxalates although I have no idea if they affect my daughter or not! Anyway the adrenal tabs themselves are having no effect that's for sure.

I've got some Isocort and am thinking of trying that .

As soon as we have a breakthrough I will report back!

 

[Athene]

Hi UKME,

What is the risk of oxalates with Vitamin C? I've never heard of that before.

Snowathlete,
I'm glad the headache has gone. The sea salt and baking powder trick sounds interesting. I want to try that. How much did you put in the bath?

 

[ukme]

I've picked up this information from Susan Costen Owens, she has a yahoo group. She says that oxalates can be generated when someone is taking high doses of vitamin C or consuming high levels of fructose.

 

[snowathlete]

The sea salt and baking powder trick sounds interesting. I want to try that. How much did you put in the bath?

I put about two cups of salt, and one of baking powder. So, quite a lot i guess.

Out of interest, so that i have something to guage things by: how long did you take these supplements before you saw an improvement?

 

[Athene]

I tried the bath last night. I had a throbbing headache. Mr. Athene asked me why I was preparing salad dressing in the bath, and helpfully brought me olive oil and lemons, suggesting I add those too. It did help relieve the headache a bit, though not totally get rid of it. It was such a severe headache I couldn't expect miracles. I'll definitely be repeating the salty bath. I reckon with all detox things, you see the benefits over time, rather thanimmediately.

My results from the adrenal therapy were very up adn down at first. I had immediate effect for the first 2 weeks because I was taking siberian ginseng as well as the nutrients. Once I started getting toxified from that and stopped, I felt rotten for another week while I detoxed and then started improving more slowly. It was two steps forward and one step back all the way but I did feel changes happening from very early on. The book says this does not happen to everyone, some people take 3 months to feel the effect.

I think this is just how the healing goes, not a smooth thing. Part of the problem for me was that I was being naughty and drinking cups of tea (yes I'm English and a woman - people like me need one of those ten-step programmes for overcoming tea addiction). So that kept setting me back. Also, whenever I started feeling more energy, I got so excited I rushed out to spend the day buying new handbags or whatever, wore myself out and set myself right back. I've eventually realised the best way to deal with this was sticking to a rigid routine or activity and rest periods.

The best rhythm is be active and get tasks done in the morning, and then have a nap, or at least a lie down, after lunch. This is when cortisol goes into a great dip, for everyone, not just people with adrenal exhaustion. Then you have more energy after a rest later in the afternoon, which should carry you through to the evening. For us, we need to be in bed by ten at the latest, before that second wind kicks in. This second wind happens specificially to us with knackered adrenals, and if that happens, you've ruined your chances of a decent night's sleep... which will have a knock on effect the next day.

If you get nothing after 2 weeks I definitely think the first test should be increasing your Vitamin C. And of course don't have any tea or coffee whatsoever. I cannot remember if I have emphasised the fried food thing? Apparently fried fat is disastrous too. (If you find fat delicious, which I do, you can grill everything and drizzle oil all over it afterwards. he says butter is OK and rapeseed oil and olive oil are very good.)

I read up on the oxalates issue with vitamin C and the research I found seemed to conclude this only happens to people who get kidney stones and cannot lay down calcium properly. I also read up on signs of high oxalates generally and I don't have any of them. So I think Oxalates must one of those substances that a few people cannot metabolise but most can?? I can't believe I've actually found something I am NOT intolerant to, what a result!!!