Advice on general supplements to support methylation protocol

[topaz]

I am about to commence my methylation protocol. Aside from the essentials I would like some advice regarding which Multi Bs and other support vitamins to buy (as Im buying internationally, Id like to get them all at once).

B-complex:
I have decided to take buy a B-complex that does not contain any cyanob12 or folate or folinic acid.

I notice the brands vary between the ratios of the various Bs. Is there a rule of thumb to guide us? Should we be focussing on one that provides the highest B6 (as P5P) as they vary from 20mcg to 100mcg (AOR) per tablet?

If the B-complex has mb12 and I am on the hb12 protocol does that matter? Ditto for the opposite if Im on a hb12 protocol and the B complex contains mb12, does that matter? Obviously these amounts will need to be included in total b12 intake.

Cofactors and other recommended supplements:
This is the most difficult area as I really like the contents of the General Vitamin Neurological Health Formula, aside from the cyanob12 and folic acid.
Does anyone know of any product(s) that contains ingredients similar to the General Vitamin Neurological Health Formula but minus all the Bs (which I can take separately)?

I am happy to buy a number of the vitamins/minerals separately but there is a limit as to how many and how small you can cut a pill!

Im not looking for the perfect pill, just one that doesnt contain cyanob12 or folate.

Are there any rule of thumb guidelines for dosages of zinc, copper, (it seems zinc/copper imbalances are seen in methylation problems), selenium (upper limit is 400mcg), potassium (I seem to recall Freddd mentioning 400mcg/day spread over the day), inositol, intrinsic factor, TMG, ALA etc. Freddd has given guideline dosages for a few of these on his protocol.

I am only looking for baseline dosages to support the protocol. Obviously everyones chemistry is different and only testing identify specific deficiencies.

thanks

 

[ukxmrv]

Topaz, the problem I have with B vits is that they are often very yeasty. My stomach reacts badly to them. Have you been OK with B multivits up to now?

 

[justy]

I second that! cant take multivits due to the yeasty b vits. I take 200mcg selenium a day and alongside magnesium and b12 its the best supplement ive taken -especially when mixed with vit c.

 

[topaz]

I take magnesium and vitamin C but have yet to add the selenium which has been added to my "must include' list.

 

[topaz]

Can anyone help with my query on Vitamin B's and co-factors?

Thank you

 

[sandralee]

Hi Topaz,

Freddd has listed the cofactors for his protocol at:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?11522-Active-B12-Protocol-Basics&highlight=active+b12

Where dosages aren't specified, it's up to each individual to work it out depending on their own symptoms and responses. Some people are trialing the different B's, and some are supplementing with extra B components e.g. extra P5P according to their individual needs. It's all a bit trial and error, and apart from the absolute essentials, I don't think anyone really knows.

Regarding combining HB12 and MB12, I don't know where Rich stands on this one, but Fredd advocates MB12 exclusively.

To my knowledge, no one has come up with an adequate multi minus the B's yet. They have to be sourced separately.

That's all I can offer at present, but hopefully someone else might chime in.

Best wishes,

Sandra

 

[aprilk1869]

To my knowledge, no one has come up with an adequate multi minus the B's yet. They have to be sourced separately.

As far as I know, Pure Encapsulations has a few multi nutrient formulas which include mb12 and metafolin instead of the usual cb12 and folic acid. Even then, extra vitamins and minerals might be needed in addition.

 

[sandralee]

Thanks very much Aprilk1869, I'll check them out.

Best wishes,

Sandra

 

[topaz]

Thanks for the responses but my query started from Freddd's co-factors post.

I acknowledged that there are no fixed guidelines and asked for guidance with "baseline dosages to support the protocol. Obviously everyones chemistry is different and only testing identify specific deficiencies" but a starting point for some of the co-factors would be useful.

I have compared the Pure Encapsulations (PE) and Douglas Labs (DL) and the various B's vary a lot, for example B1 100mg PE, 50mg DL; B6 20mg in both etc. Is there a preference for the weighting of some B's over others? I know that B6 is very important, so is 20mg/day sufficient (per both PE and DL)?

Also, "if the B-complex has mb12 and I am on the hb12 protocol does that matter? Ditto for the opposite if Im on a hb12 protocol and the B complex contains mb12, does that matter? Obviously these amounts will need to be included in total b12 intake."

Thanks

 

[Freddd]

Thanks for the responses but my query started from Freddd's co-factors post.

I acknowledged that there are no fixed guidelines and asked for guidance with "baseline dosages to support the protocol. Obviously everyones chemistry is different and only testing identify specific deficiencies" but a starting point for some of the co-factors would be useful.

I have compared the Pure Encapsulations (PE) and Douglas Labs (DL) and the various B's vary a lot, for example B1 100mg PE, 50mg DL; B6 20mg in both etc. Is there a preference for the weighting of some B's over others? I know that B6 is very important, so is 20mg/day sufficient (per both PE and DL)?

Also, "if the B-complex has mb12 and I am on the hb12 protocol does that matter? Ditto for the opposite if Im on a hb12 protocol and the B complex contains mb12, does that matter? Obviously these amounts will need to be included in total b12 intake."

Thanks

if the B-complex has mb12 and I am on the hb12 protocol does that matter? Ditto for the opposite if Im on a hb12 protocol and the B complex contains mb12, does that matter? Obviously these amounts will need to be included in total b12 intake

Orally taken cobalamins absorb via the following approximation if EVERYTHING in the absorption system is working as it is supposed to. Approximately the first 10mcg of cobalamin, in food or supplements, is absorbed at near 100%. Over the next 10mcg the absorbtion drops to about 50%. This 50% drop decrement is present in each additional dose increment until it reaches about 1% at quantities greater than 100mcg. If everything doesn't work correctly about 1% is directly absorbed. If what Rich says is correct, all forms of cobalamin loose their identity when absorbed via the active absorption path and what form is in the vitamin pill makes no difference at all. In any case the amount absorbed orally as opposed to sublingually is so minor it makes no difference what kind it is. Do not confuse nominal dose with absorbed dose. They are not remotely the same. A 1000mcg oral dose can result in 10 -30mcg being absorbed. A 1000mcg sublingual dose can result in 100-330mcg (total range extremes, 150-250 typical) at the 45-120 minute absorption periods with the 5 star sublinguals. The 5 star 5mg sublingual absorption results ina an absorbed dose approximately equal in all ways to an injection of the same variety of cobalamin.

I'm taking a very simple b-complex without folate or cobalamin and taking additional b1, pantethine, biotin and p5p as well as Metafolin and methylb12 and adenosylb12.