April 7/8 NIH State of Knowledge Conference - watch online to show our support!

[Jim]

alter said he used coffin's iap tests for contamination and found none. did we know that? sounds huge. i wish coffin had replied to that.

 

[toddm1960]

Coffin wants XMRV research stopped and left for dead.......no way he'd respond to Alter using his test and not finding contamination.

 

[LJS]

Coffin wants XMRV research stopped and left for dead.......no way he'd respond to Alter using his test and not finding contamination.

He doesn't want it stopped and left dead he just feels it is a waste of money at this point. Most scientist have this view at this point from the overwhelming negative and contamination studies. If I did not have CFS and looked at the data I would probably think the same thing.

 

[Waverunner]

The way I see it is that Mikovits puts her reputation and job at risk. But not only this, for me it seems that the majority of scientists who are involved in XMRV are not trying to disprove any connection.

 

[invisible ME]

For anyone having issues watching it seems increasing your players buffer size to greater than 3000ms seems to help - of course it might just be coincidence but I've gone from only being able to watch a few seconds at a time before my player (VLC) locked up to having continious playback for the last 10mins by making this adjustment.

Wonko,

I'm using VLC as well, and having the same problem. Not sure how to change the buffer size. Could you help me out with that?

Thanks!

 

[Bob]

He doesn't want it stopped and left dead he just feels it is a waste of money at this point. Most scientist have this view at this point from the overwhelming negative and contamination studies. If I did not have CFS and looked at the data I would probably think the same thing.

But there have not been any 'overwhelming' XMRV contamination studies, only lots of negative studies.
Actually, as far as I can think of, there are no relevent contamination studies, apart from that which found XMRV in the prostate cancer cell line, which obviously raises questions about contamination.
But this, and everything else that Coffin talked about, does not disprove Judy's study.
As Judy's research has not been disproven, and she continues to develop new interesting research, one can't help wonder why Coffin wants to end XMRV research.
One can't help wondering if it is for reasons other than scientific curiosity.
Coffin said that it might turn out that there is another, different, retrovirus involved with CFS, apart from XMRV.
But why would he want to look for another retrovirus when there is already a retrovirus under his nose?
It seems premature to dismiss XMRV, based purely on the studies that suggest that XMRV is a recombination of two endogenous mouse retroviruses, and that this might have happened in a cell line, and that prostate cancer cell lines contain XMRV.
These are interesting lines of research, but they do not prove that XMRV does not exist in humans.
Why so keen to avoid further research on the new virus?
He didn't explain this, and it just seems premature.

 

[CBS]

Systems biology section a bust

Two researchers basing a large portion of their results on the study of Wichita patients (did anyone actually listen to Lenny Jason's presentation?) and one person who has never studied CFS but wants to keep comparing it to depression and fatigue. Lucky us.

We could have really used someone like Montoya doing the viral association presentation instead of Ronald Glaser (more depression leads to increased cortisol - really?) and increased levels of EBV.

Anyone want to make odds on whether they can get this thing out of the ditch?

 

[Trooper]

Mikovits is making the closed caption typist work for their money

: ) good one : )

 

[Kate_UK]

Bob, do you mean Coffin, not Collins?

 

[toddm1960]

He doesn't want it stopped and left dead he just feels it is a waste of money at this point. Most scientist have this view at this point from the overwhelming negative and contamination studies. If I did not have CFS and looked at the data I would probably think the same thing.

When Nancy asked him what he felt the next moves into XMRV research should be, he said it should be left behind, we need to be looking else where. This is even before the BWG and Lipkin studies are done, and to date no one has done an exact replication of the Science paper (though I think one is in the works). I was shocked to see in his summary he listed every published positive study contained his contamination. I think that got Judy going.

 

[Jim]

would coffin say since alter didn't find a full virus there just wasn't contamination or virus in any sample?

 

[ukxmrv]

I think that Dr Mikovits presented some very convincing arguments that Coffin could not disprove or refute. He was obviously sick with a cold (or similar) and he came across as unconvincing, very weak.

Dr Coffin was also raising his voice during this presentation and his overly emotional complaint about feeling hurt by patients did not earn him any respect. It sounded like a petulant whine. I thought that was a very cheap shot and the last ditch try of someone who does appear to know that he has little evidence. He appeared shifty and ill at ease presenting a weak case.

Apart from someone who clapped very loudly, he was not well supported. People around him showed body image to try and distance themselves.

Dr Coffin was showed far too much deference and should have been cut off sooner. Other people may have wished to comment but he seemed determine to try and "filibuster" to use up the available time. He was unable to answer the questions posed to him by Dr Klimas or to answer the riposte from Dr Mikovits. Showed that he did not have a handle on the whole picture.

It must be hard for Dr Coffin to admit (at his time of life) that he is not on the winning side. He's going to be remembered as a "XMRV denier" and when these presentations are written up or shown as parts of movies/documentaries he is going to appear very badly indeed. I was hoping that he could put on a better show and provide us with more convincing arguments as I want to know the truth about XMRV. He crumpled when asked questions and that looks really bad.

When it comes down to scientific presentation, image and bearing Dr Mikovits was clearly the winner.

 

[Wonko]

Wonko,

I'm using VLC as well, and having the same problem. Not sure how to change the buffer size. Could you help me out with that?

Thanks!

Hi,

Whilst changign the buffer size helped I've eventually installed realmedia player and that works fine - although at a lower resolution than vlc was using - I doubt tho dont know if the reduced bandwidth is a factor (vlc was using a 400k stream and my net connection is alledgedly 20mb cable) - I came to the conclusion it was a codec issue - which prompted the update to realmedia layer (from real alternative codecs).

However if you wish to try increasing the buffer size you need to grab the stream url (which you can get from right clicking on the "click to watch" link and selecting copy shortcut) and in vlc selecting media (top left of diplay), select open network stream, paste the url into the enter url box, ticking show more otions and entering 4000 in the cache size box and then click play.

 

[Boule de feu]

HELP! I MISSED THIS MORNING PRESENTATIONS.

Is there a way that we can see this morning presentations (April 7)?

 

[Sasha]

The science on all this is way, way over my head but what struck me about the ping-pong exchange between Drs Coffin and Mikovits ("But this! But that! But this!") was that they appeared not to have had that conversation before. They clearly have a lot to say to each other before they are on the same page in terms of agreeing exactly where the issues lie - they were each making very specific points in mutual rebuttal during the dicussion and that is a productive way to resolve things.

I just wish they could have had that conversation before the conference. I hope at least they will talk over lunch! But I would have hoped for much more communication between them before now than seems to have happened.

 

[Bob]

Bob, do you mean Coffin, not Collins?

Thanks Kate! I've corrected it.

 

[urbantravels]

I've only been able to sketchily watch so far because I woke up late, am still somewhat crashed from having dared to attend a public function two days ago, and have had computer problems with trying to watch the feed.

Someone mentioned somewhere that Jason said he has a paper in for publication on mortality - true?

 

[ixchelkali]

Is there a way that we can see this morning presentations (April 7)?

It will be available to watch online eventually. Usually takes them a week or two.

 

[Rrrr]

The science on all this is way, way over my head but what struck me about the ping-pong exchange between Drs Coffin and Mikovits ("But this! But that! But this!") was that they appeared not to have had that conversation before. They clearly have a lot to say to each other before they are on the same page in terms of agreeing exactly where the issues lie - they were each making very specific points in mutual rebuttal during the dicussion and that is a productive way to resolve things.

I just wish they could have had that conversation before the conference. I hope at least they will talk over lunch! But I would have hoped for much more communication between them before now than seems to have happened.

EXACTLY. it was like they were talking to each other (rebutting each other) for the first time. weird. could that be true?

 

[Rrrr]

I've only been able to sketchily watch so far because I woke up late, am still somewhat crashed from having dared to attend a public function two days ago, and have had computer problems with trying to watch the feed.

Someone mentioned somewhere that Jason said he has a paper in for publication on mortality - true?

yes, he said he had a paper in but can't talk about it yet.