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DeMeirleir's H2s (Hydrogen Sulfide) Diagnostic Test for CFS Announced

Cort

Phoenix Rising Founder
DeMeirleir's H2s Diagnostic Test - this must be a different test, I suppose, than the one he did earlier. It is intriguing that its centered in the gut - which is getting more and more interest.

He has a paper on it coming out soon.

BELGIUM

Dr. Kenny De Meirleir of the Brussels Free University (VUB) has announced that he has successfully developed a diagnostic test for ME/CFS. The Myalgic Encephalopathy Association Belgium (MEAB) estimates there are between 30,000 to 40,000 people in Belgium with ME/CFS.

Since 2002, the Flemish government has invested over €10 million in five "reference centres" across the region in Leuven, Antwerp, Ghent and Brussels for the diagnosis and treatment for ME/CFS but offer only cognitive behavioural therapy and physical rehabilitation.

"These people have been mistreated for years," Dr De Meirleir says. "CFS was treated as a psychosomatic complaint. But someone who runs 10 metres after a bus and then has to spend a week in bed recovering has a serious medical problem."

The test, manufactured by Protea Biopharma, in which Dr De Meirleir is a partner, detects the presence of hydrogen sulphide (H2S), which is produced in the intestines when bacteria come in contact with heavy metals. People with ME/ CFS have been shown to have higher concentrations of intestinal bacteria than normal, which leads to higher levels of H2S.

H2S is a gas present in minuscule concentrations in normal people but at toxic levels in ME/CFS patients. The reasons for overproduction of bacteria can range from lactose intolerance to viral infection to stress.

According to the draft of a journal article soon to be published by Dr. De Meirleir and his team, H2S causes intolerance to light and noise, a depressed immune system and low white blood cell count. It also leads to retention of mercury by the body, which in turn produces cell death and damage to energy metabolism. The biggest effects, though, are produced on the central nervous system, explaining the main symptoms of ME/CFS.

“There’s still a great deal of work to be done to find a cure” Dr. De Meirleir told Radio 1 listeners "CFS is not an illness, it's a condition," which means that the underlying causes of ME/CFS could vary widely and that each would have to be treated on its own.

Note: Dr. Kenny De Meirleir was one of the panel members of the Canadian ME/CFS Working Case Clinical Definition, Diagnostic & Treatment Protocols, a Consensus Document published in 2003 which can be viewed at http://www.mefmaction.com


Lydia
Lydia E. Neilson, M.S.M. , Founder
Chief Executive Officer
NATIONAL ME/FM ACTION NETWORK
512 - 33 Banner Road
Nepean, ON K2H 8V7 Canada
Tel. 613.829.6667
Fax 613.829.8518
Email: mefmaction@ncf.ca
www.mefmaction.net
 

eric_s

Senior Member
Messages
1,925
Location
Switzerland/Spain (Valencia)
But if the test would really work, then after a year i would expect doctors all over the world to do it and ME/CFS to be diagnosed using this test and no longer through the diagnostic criteria we know.
 

SpecialK82

Ohio, USA
Messages
993
Location
Ohio, USA
I guess I don't understand the logic exactly - lactose intolerance and stress can both cause overproduction of bacteria, and when the bacteria comes in contact with heavy metals, H2S is produced. So wouldn't this test also pick up people that were lactose intolerant or stressed?

Downstream the H2S leads to retention of mercury, but heavy metals must already exist for the process to work.
 

m1she11e

Senior Member
Messages
333
Location
Florida
Im a little concerned that stress and lactose intolerance can also cause this. I hope it doesnt put the emphasis back on stress!!

Do we look bad with so much media attention right now, which is great but it is going in completely different directions. XMRV? Toxic gas? STRESS??
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
But if the test would really work, then after a year i would expect doctors all over the world to do it and ME/CFS to be diagnosed using this test and no longer through the diagnostic criteria we know.

eric_s, it took one to two decades for Helicobacter pylori to be accepted by most doctors as causing stomach ulcers. Prior to such acceptance, doctors neither did tests nor prescribed the correct antibiotics. A diagnostic test, once proven, will have to be replicated, approved, used by some, reported as successful, used in many countries, approved as a test in many countries, then be written up in medical review articles. We can make this happen faster through advocacy, but it will still take years.

In the meantime, while I hope KDM is right, it still have to be proved, and his paper is still not published. I am also glad this is completely separate from XMRV as this means that naysayers have two entirely separate things to argue against.

Bye
Alex
 

Enid

Senior Member
Messages
3,309
Location
UK
Be interesting to know his "underlying causes" in more detail. A friend is being treated as an MLV positive (amongst other treatments). And I gather all require antibiotic intervention (amongst other treatments). Good test though from one very positive here.
 

consuegra

Senior Member
Messages
176
H2S test

Dr. de Meirleir first announced this test in May 2009. Shortly thereafter it became available to the public. It is used by various doctors but has not taken ahold in the states as far as I can see. I know a few people here who use this test to try to track improvements in H2S levels. A small amount of urine is put into a vial. Depending on the situation, the color changes over three minutes and then is measured by a color scale. I think de Meirleir uses this before and after treatment. In the past two years Dr. de Meirleir has gotten ten of 22 bedbound Norwegian ME patients out of bed. I asked him how he did this. His answer: antibiotics.

It is worth noting that the hypothesis of H2S involvement in ME/CFS was first proposed by Marian Dix Lemle and her thesis can be found online. Incidentally, Marian Lemle still believes in this hypothesis.

Chris

http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com
 

Enid

Senior Member
Messages
3,309
Location
UK
Chris - his answer - antibiotics - what did he find is well worth waiting for. And shows everybody else is not looking hard enough I guess. A positive on the KDM test brought zeros from the NHS (UK) retests. Yet neon urine and loose dark stools must surely indicate something and KDM finds viruses requiring treatment with antibiotics - his "answer". So what is missing in UK tests. Hoping he can guide.
 

kurt

Senior Member
Messages
1,186
Location
USA
Sorry Cort, but this is an old 2009 announcement apparently being sent around again by some ME/CFS organizations. Here is a FB discussion on that, for those on FB:

http://www.facebook.com/notes/natio...sity-announces-test-for-mecfs/198632696826577

But I think this is an example of promising research that seems to have been put on hold due to the XMRV finding, and probably should be re-evaluated.

Also, their statement that H2S comes from interaction of bacteria with metals seems a bit odd to me. H2S is a common by-product of the breakdown or organic materials by bacteria, found in swamps and around sewage treatment plants. Interaction with metals is possible, but secondary. Here, from Wikipedia:

As organic matter decays under low-oxygen (or hypoxic) conditions (such as in swamps, eutrophic lakes or dead zones of oceans), sulfate-reducing bacteria will use the sulfates present in the water to oxidize the organic matter, producing hydrogen sulfide as waste. Some of the hydrogen sulfide will react with metal ions in the water to produce metal sulfides, which are not water soluble. These metal sulfides, such as ferrous sulfide FeS, are often black or brown, leading to the dark color of sludge.

It appears that H2S can be created with or without metals around.

The biological function of H2S is pretty interesting, in tiny quantities it is a 'gasotransmitter' used in the nervous system, along with NO and CO. More from Wiki 'gasotransmitter':

Gasotransmitters is a family of endogenous molecules of gases or gaseous signaling molecules, including NO, CO, H2S, and others. These particular gases share many common features in their production and function but carry on their tasks in unique ways, which differ from classical signaling molecules, in the human body. The first suggestion that a gas, , had a direct action at pharmacological receptors and thereby acting as a neurotransmitter was first suggested in 1981 from clinical work with nitrous oxide (1,2,3). In vitro experiments confirmed these observations (4) which were replicated at NIDA later(5).
The terminology and characterization criteria of “gasotransmitter” were firstly introduced in 2002 (see ref. 14). For one gas molecule to be categorized as a gasotransmitters, all of the following criteria should be met (see ref. 13 &14). (i) It is a small molecule of gas; (ii) It is freely permeable to membranes. As such, its effects do not rely on the cognate membrane receptors. It can have endocrine, paracrine, and autocrine effects. In their endocrine mode of action, for example, gasotransmitters can enter the blood stream; be carried to remote targets by scavengers and released there, and modulate functions of remote target cells; (iii) It is endogenously and enzymatically generated and its production is regulated; (iv) It has well defined and specific functions at physiologically relevant concentrations. Thus, manipulating the endogenous levels of this gas evokes specific physiological changes; (v) Functions of this endogenous gas can be mimicked by its exogenously applied counterpart; (vi) Its cellular effects may or may not be mediated by second messengers, but should have specific cellular and molecular targets.

I think this is a promising area of research for CFS and hope some other labs will pick up the trail and expand on deMeirlier's work soon. Particularly because excess H2S can block NO (nitrous oxide) in the nerves. Might explain a lot about CFS.
 

eric_s

Senior Member
Messages
1,925
Location
Switzerland/Spain (Valencia)
I can't access the Facebook link.

Too bad this is old news. Still, the test might be good, but i don't think it's good to send that news around without mentioning it's old. This is confusing and not serious, in my view.

Not you Cort, maybe for you it was not possible to recognize the age of it.

Let's wait for the paper.
 

mhj

Messages
21
Location
Norway
Kenny De Meirleir and Abberant Prion disease??

This my be helpfull:

1: ABSTRACT OF UPCOMING JOURNAL ARTICLE Preliminary Draft
The De Meirleir research team will also publish a journal article on their work. The following draft was disseminated via the CO-CURE listserv May 28 by ME research reporter Jan van Roijen (j.van.roijen@CHELLO.NL).

Research on Extremely Disabled M.E. Patients Reveals the True Nature of the Disorder
By Kenny De Meirleir(1), Chris Roelant(2), Marc Fremont(2), Kristin Metzger(2), Henry Butt(3)

(1) Vrije Universiteit Brussel & HIMMUNITAS foundation, Brussels, Belgium
(2) Protea Biopharma, Brussels, Belgium
(3) Bioscreen & Bio 21, University of Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia

In this study we compared totally bedridden patients (Karnofski score 20-30) with less ill ME patients (Karnofski score 60-70), family controls, contact controls and non-contact controls.

Link: http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=14579

2: METHODS FOR THE DETECTION AND TREATMENT OF ABERRANT PRION DISEASE

Rec: 26 mars 2010 og publ 30 september 2010.

Link: http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Methods-detection-treatment-aberrant-prion/WO2010109009.html

????

Note: The H2S test showing black even with healty people with no GI problems at ALL.

sooo???

;)
 

Cort

Phoenix Rising Founder
I can't access the Facebook link.

Too bad this is old news. Still, the test might be good, but i don't think it's good to send that news around without mentioning it's old. This is confusing and not serious, in my view.

Not you Cort, maybe for you it was not possible to recognize the age of it.

Let's wait for the paper.

It was sent to my email address from the NATIONAL ME/FM ACTION NETWORK as if it was news...
 

Enid

Senior Member
Messages
3,309
Location
UK
Whatever - KDM and findings all part of the "big" picture and very much part of ME. Lets hear his paper. And tying with Chia - enterovirals.
 

insearchof

Senior Member
Messages
598
Note: The H2S test showing black even with healty people with no GI problems at ALL.

Hmmm, could be a problem. Where was this mentioned?
 

insearchof

Senior Member
Messages
598
Whatever - KDM and findings all part of the "big" picture and very much part of ME. Lets hear his paper. And tying with Chia - enterovirals.

Enid,

I would be interested to know what Dr Chia's thoughts are about XMRV - Does anyone know?
 

redo

Senior Member
Messages
874
Note: The H2S test showing black even with healty people with no GI problems at ALL.

Hmmm, could be a problem. Where was this mentioned?

I don't see that as a problem. Many (if not most?) CFS patients don't have GI problems, so if the leaky gut (which the H2S may measure, correct me if I am wrong) is at the core of CFS, then the problem would really be if healthy people also tested black ;)
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,561
Location
Seattle
KDM: Antibiotics, then probiotics...for H2S

Chris - his answer - antibiotics - what did he find is well worth waiting for. And shows everybody else is not looking hard enough I guess. A positive on the KDM test brought zeros from the NHS (UK) retests. Yet neon urine and loose dark stools must surely indicate something and KDM finds viruses requiring treatment with antibiotics - his "answer". So what is missing in UK tests. Hoping he can guide.

It's my understanding that antibiotics work only for bacterial infections, and possibly some others like parasite infections, but have no effect on viruses.

Also, I believe that a core piece of information is missing: KDM uses antibiotics first, then uses very high dose probiotics to restore the 'good' bacteria.

???
 
Messages
41
I too recognized this from 2009. I am slightly doubtful about the test (having done it), since it's been around for two years, but, like someone said, no other ME/CFS doctor seems to have deemed it useful. Consuegra, I don't expect conventional doctors to pick up new stuff quickly, but if this was really relevant, then I believe that a number of visionary ME/CFS physicians would have taken to it.

I should also mention that here in Europe there is questioning of a number of De Meirleir's tests. Many of the results can't be repeated using other labs, not just conventional labs (which may not look hard enough), but also other frontline American labs (used by American ME/CFS doctors). De Meirleirs (Red Labs) test which they say is measuring NK cell function is criticized by ME/CFS friendly expert NK cell researchers.