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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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What's really wrong with the economy?(From a person with ME)

What is really wrong with the economy? There is the obvious things like globalization, and increased productivity.

However I have a slightly different take that is not so obvious. From a sick person's point of view if you will.

So what is the not so obvious answer to what is really wrong with the economy?In order to answer that question, we need to look at what drives the economy.

What drives the economy? Knowledge, ambition, self interest, productivity,team work,finance, creativity probably some more stuff I can't think of right at the moment

Knowledge: New tools, materials, technologies, science, physics and finance(country has a bit too many financiers though)

Ambition: takes amibitious people who are motivated to make stuff happen.

Self interest: That ambitious person figuring out how to make herself rich instead of making somebody else rich.

productivity: having energy and clear thinking to execute effectively. No messing around and messing up. Mistakes are acceptable, but it takes execution and quickly implementing lessons learned to be profitable and competitive.

team work: Not any one person has all the know-how to get stuff done in todays world. Need thinkers, doers, creators, workers, leaders all working synergystically for a common cause.

finance: need funding, (warning! finance guys can dismantle and screw up a company fast, Need many more engineers and creators in top level management in my opinion.)

Creativity: Apple computer is a good example of this. Apple CREATES new products. Real visionaries determining the future of how we live play and work. Not some me too bozo's who's plan is to cut everybody's wages and benefits and ship the technology to china.

What is wrong with the economy? First ask yourself what do ME and HGRV's strip from people? Knowledge, ambition, self interest, creativity, productivity,team work

Not everybody is sick, but I don't think the economy can grow very well with illness skyrocketing and governments ignoring it. Autism/CFS, pain, fatigue, headaches, cognitive dysfunction, obesity, etc, etc.. All on the rise. These are quadruple whammies.

whammy: The once gifted people have been going aimlessly from doctor to Doctor since the 80s with no answers. Spending every last cent.

whammy: Look at health insurance premiums growth. 10-15% compound growth over the last 10 years, maybe more.

whammy: folks now on disability, SSDI, medicare, often getting prescribed drugs that make them worse, or require another drug to fix the side effects of the first drug. The only folks really thriving are the medical related industries from what I can tell.

whammy: governments ignore pleas of sick folks and never fund research aimed at finding ways to quickly diagnosis and help people recover. Instead, huge barriers are put in place to block innovative treatments like the one for cancer from Dr Burzynski.

Whammy: Too many business men/women lacking creativity and only after self interest. Who have seen no other plan except to dismantle company after company in self interest since the 80's.

The end result is what we are seeing now people. A bunch of dysfunctional people who show up to work, but are not effective. Worse yet, people who can't even work at all.

What needs to happen in a perfect world? A moon shot for addressing our health problems. NOT 100% with big pharma solutions necessarily, but also alternative treatments programs funded inside/outside of government agencies who are not influenced by lobbyists. People who really want to help do the right thing. Not the SPIN cycle folks.


It was all planned, for a very long time. No conspiracy theory, just truth. They wanted to take down the world's economies. People are just not asking the right questions. How do you get millions of people to stop voting? You make them sick. Sick people don't vote, they don't pay attention to laws being passed. They don't protest. They are too busy being sick to deal with anything else. So laws get passed in secret and slide right on by. So easy to steal everyone's rights when they aren't looking.

How do you take down a world economy? You weaken it. You poison the people and make them sick so there is less workforce. More drain on the economy. How do you get millions of people to willingly take poison? You make it taste good, like aspartame, and you vaccinate with poison. Of course you also outsource jobs and do alot of other things, but destroying the health of a population pushes it all along much faster.

Why are they doing this? That's simple. One world economy, one world government. They need to take down the governments all around the world and bring them so far down that they can swoop in and declare one world currency, one world government, one world economy. We cannot stop it. It will happen. They have already won this war.
This post is kind of a rant, but has to be said. I need to be aware of reality. Being in denial has gotten the country nowhere good in my opinion.

I agree with you on many points.

Over the last 6 months or so, I have read some of the conspiracy stuff and am quick to dismiss it. There is never any hard facts. I've since approached it from a different angle after witnessing the un-explainable stuff that we read about here every day. There is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that likely points directly at key officials in government involved in keeping all in the dark for so long.

There are a number of verifiable facts that affirms my belief of serious wrong doing governments.

The first obvious thing is the way ME, autism, cancer, etc.. has been handled all these years. Plenty of evidence of all kinds of willful neglect, spin in the media, governments ignoring years of evidence while autism skyrockets. Refusing to do any well designed studies.

At the same time governments giving us fluoride and drugs that can cause chemical poisoning. ESPECIALLY bad if one has an HGRV! I Can say that from first hand experience. Extra high levels of acetaminophen in vicodin. All the cocaine and marijuana that was brought in to the USA during the 1980's by the CIA!

I look at the $300 million application fee for new drugs, which prevents Burzynski, Boyd Haley, and the rest from coming up with treatments that cure cancer, or ME, Autism. How can that be good for the american people, why would our governments block treatments to help us?

I look at the medicare part D plan created in 2004. $724 billion over ten years? In the middle of a war? With another trillion or more in huge tax cuts thrown on top of that? HUGE budget buster. A how many trillions chasing Osama bin Laden? What about spending 1/3 that on some projects at home instead? Look at Isreal, they are in a pretty bad neighborhood and manage to do fine.

The most compelling recent thing I found was on the Iran Contra affair in the 1980's. The CIA was dealing drugs, and probably still is! It is all documented, this is not conspiracy stuff. Watch the videos of John Kerry and Ron Paul talking about this stuff. The San Jose news story exposing the CIA.

Also consider the "ATF gun walking" scandle where the murder rate has tripled or quadrupled in mexico since the ATF started letting guns walk. The ATF was literally watching drug cartel hall off thousands of weapons! High power stuff too. 50 caliber machine guns and all kinds of military equipment.

Then we got all the ME history and XRMV research.

I have come to the conclusion that is is impossible for the government not to be involved to some extent. Not all of congress, but probably Bush senior, Junior, and whoever controls the CIA PSYOPS campaign for ME/CFS that we so frustratingly fight daily wondering if it is some kind of bad dream.

We see these PSYOPS used on us all the time. PSYOPS are sophisticated stuff, and has to have government involvement to make it work smoothly. You know, where every news outlet tells a carefully distorted story.....

There are at least two documented cases of PSYOPS used on Congress and the public since the 1980's. One was during the Iran Contra affair, the other was just recently exposed by Glenn Greenwald. PSYOPS are illegal!

We are now watching all these so called "rebels" overthrowing governments left and right with the help of NATO.

The Contra rebels were funded by the CIA to mess with the Nicaraguan government. Sound like a standard play out of the CIA playbook?

Bush Jr. was elected by hanging chad in florida in 2000, and then again by the Rigged Ohio electronic voting machines in 2004.

Yep. It's all rigged.

PS: the S&P rating agency downgrade of the USA was probably a political smoke screen giving cover the politicians for shocking the economy. Caused partly by the inability of politicians to compromise.

Not only inability compromise, but the shock is probably also from the markets realizing government spending IS going to decline. The politics showed it's going to be all cuts. Hence the stock market decline.
One day, the truth will come out about what they did to us. But sadly, I doubt it will be in most of our lifetimes. Look what they did with the sealed records on ME. They want us all dead before the truth comes out.

All I can say is, there is nothing crueler than keeping someone disabled and continually telling them they are nuts or downplaying how severe the disease really is. It doesn't stand up anymore. There are too many of us all over the world presenting with the exact same symptoms and range of disability. And yet, they keep on trying to keep us down.
The economy is an equilibrium - consumer spending is stagnant not only because unemployment is high but also because debt burdens remain daunting. Businesses are reluctant to hire because they don't see the likelihood of sustained demand. This isn't a problem of tax uncertainty, regulations, or budget worries - it's a low-level equilibrium produced by consumers trying to deleverage and businesses reluctant to hire without the promise of demand. Many workers can't even move elsewhere to accept job openings because they are locked into their current homes. Very simply, barring the emergence of some new economic sector that produces a tremendous supply of desirable new goods and simultaneously produces enough employment to generate the income to buy those goods, we're unlikely to get around the employment problem until we address the debt issue directly.

The whole decline all seems to point back to the early 80's....................

Businesses have had at least 25 to 30 years near complete certainty -- certainty that they will pay lower and lower taxes, that they' will face less and less regulation, that they can outsource to their hearts' content (which when it does produce savings, comes at a loss of control, increased business system rigidity, and loss of critical know how). They have also been certain that unions will be weak to powerless, that states and municipalities will give them huge subsidies to relocate, that boards of directors will put top executives on the up escalator for more and more compensation because director pay benefits from this cozy collusion, that the financial markets will always look to short term earnings no matter how dodgy the accounting, that the accounting firms will provide plenty of cover, that the SEC will never investigate anything more serious than insider trading (Enron being the exception that proved the rule).

Rather than earn their returns the old fashioned way, by serving customers well, by innovating, by expanding into new markets, their 'certainty' amounts to being paid handsomely for doing things that carry no risk. But since risk and uncertainty are inherent to the human condition, what they instead have engaged in is a massive scheme of risk transfer, of increasing rewards to themselves to the long term detriment of their enterprises and ultimately society as a whole.


I think the "risk transfer" is due two a few factors. Two which made it really possible. First being ME outbreak. The Me outbreak made less engineers, less productive people, less clear thinking people.

Couple ME dysfunction with outsourcing (helped by US chamber of commerce) and THAT is when we the US got the huge "sucking sound". THe sound of jobs going overseas while the very top tripled their wages. All short term of course, because governments have now a race to the bottom.
More info to support my hypothesis.


Medical debt is increasingly a factor in personal bankruptcy filings, an analysis of data at a large credit-counseling agency finds.

Roughly 20 percent of those seeking financial counseling this year and last cited medical debt as the primary cause of their decision to seek bankruptcy protection, according to CredAbility, an Atlanta-based nonprofit credit counseling agency that serves clients nationally. Thats up from about 12 to 13 percent in the prior two years. The analysis included more than 47,000 clients for the first half of this year, and more than 100,000 in each of the prior years. (Federal law requires anyone filing for bankruptcy to receive counseling in case other options are available.)

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