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Tryptophan or Serotonin deficiency caused by DQ supps?

I thought I remember discussing this with someone that Tryptophan might be used up during taking methylation supps. I was doing good for a while on the last "current" protocol. Slowly started seeing a depression come on. The last few days it's been very bad.

I've been taking my small bites of CoEnzymated B vitamins and such with no relief and not sure what to do. I have been taking MB12 and small amount of MFolate to address MethylTrap if that might have been it.

I seem to be very food sensitive as of late also. Nothing is agreeing with me and I have been feeling very bad. Also would say that I've been experiencing much more inflammation and aches and pains.

Today decided to try to make some Serotonin. Just a nibble of my p5p, about 30mg of B3 and a a 500mg Jarrow Tryptophan.

Within 20 minutes feeling right as rain again. I had been trying several things to "right" myself with no luck.

So somehow my Serotonin got very depleted by taking small amounts of DQ supps (and my small amounts of active B's)

Conclusion reached I posted here:

Doing some research on this:

From: Critterina shouldn't I have low homocysteine?

Methylfolate is what most stimulates the BH4 cycle, so you should be on the right track. I find that higher doses of methylfolate (2-3 mg) depletes my tryptophan, so I supplement that (1500 mg). The tryptophan and methionine are just part of a regular old serum amino acid profile lab test. Both of them are essential amino acids - meaning they have to come from your diet - but tryptophan gets used up, methionine gets recycled.
Also from Critterina: Methyl B12 feel dizzy after eating

From: Mimi peroxynitrite more involved than realized ?

Inflammation seems to always result in high peroxynitrite and low BH4 with all the concomitant symptoms of low amines (serotonin, dopamine and downstream). Oh yeah, I also read a paper on kynurenines that said inflammation causes tryptophan to go down the kynurenine pathway and create more inflammation instead of being converted to serotonin.

Other co-factors for making Serotonin

From: click here
Two other vitamins that help your body make serotonin are Folic Acid (Vitamin B9) and Cobalamin.

Vitamin D is another important nutrient that influences serotonin activity in the brain. This vitamin is responsible for activating certain genes in your body that control the release of neurotransmitters... When levels are high, it can boost serotonin production and help to improve mood.

From: click here
Many vitamins and minerals are needed to convert tryptophan to serotonin. Vitamin B6 in its active form - pyridoxal-5-phosphate (P5P) - is perhaps the most well known vitamin required for this conversion. However, the B vitamins niacin (B3), biotin and folate, plus vitamin C, as well as the minerals zinc and iron, are also needed

As a side note Taking L-Tyrosine to increase Norepinephrine levels also requires p-5-p. Not sure about taking this with the Serotonin supps since it might interfere with Serotonin creation.

From: click here
L-tyrosine requires pyridoxal-5-phosphate, P-5-P, to get converted into norepinephrine. P-5-P is the active form of vitamin B6, pyridoxine, and must be taken as an enteric-coated capsule. If you purchase P-5-P in a capsule, it will do little good, for it will be broken down by stomach acids and rendered useless.

The simple equation is this: L-tyrosine, in the presence of P-5-P, increases norepinephrine brain levels. L-tryptophan, in the presence of P-5-P, increases brain serotonin levels.

In addition to L-tyrosine and L-tryptophan, other amino acids are implicated in mood. A study of 500 depressed people revealed a deficiency in the amino acid L-glutamine in 50% of the subjects.

B vitamins are essential for this biochemistry. Nearly every B vitamin plays a role in brain chemistry, the most important ones being biotin, folic acid, P-5-P, and B12. So supplement with a multi-B vitamin. Vitamin C is also important, and is critical for the production of serotonin, norepinephrine, and for adrenal function.

Minerals also play a role, the most important ones for neurotransmitters being magnesium, zinc, copper, and iron. Magnesium is the most important mineral for amino acid chemistry.

Comments

Thanks for putting this post together, really interesting. So glad you found the mood solution. Happy Hols. :)
 
Very interesting. Thank you.

I've had all sorts of issues with sleep--and pain, too, for that matter--and have found that Source Naturals L-Tryptophan with Coenzyme B-6 will usually help me return to sleep faster than I otherwise would, as well as sleep more soundly. I've never noticed a relationship between the L-Tryptophan and pain levels, but I'll try to take note. I upped my magnesium a year or two ago and each time I increased it (up to about 200mg of citrate at lunch and dinner--initially titrated drop by drop) my sleep would improve for a night or two. The same thing with zinc. I now take 12 mg zinc with lunch and 5 drops at night. With each bump upward I get a slightly better night's sleep--for a night anyway! I'm hoping that over time all will have an impact. These are, after all, the cofactors that we all know assist in methylation! All the best...
 
I'm really late to this conversation but have been reading about serotonin being broken down if one isn't getting enough niacin. And since methyldonors like methylfolate and methylb12, etc., need methyl-acceptors like niacin, I can see that in fact they could indeed cause tryptophan or serotonin deficiency.

A google search will turn up more info, but tryptophan is definitely used up (and some nasty metabolites can be created in the process) if one isn't getting enough niacin.
 
Here's something to consider if you take niacin. It will deplete Glycine: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?bookmarks/2556/view-item
 

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