Day 130 - Off most of Joshua Leisk Protocol

So after much experimentation over about 6 weeks and lots of false guesses. I was still getting more and more and more depressed. My sex drive reached zero and my motivation to do anything was incredibly low. Depression also meant I couldn't really speak to anyone, unless it was work related.

I had another look at things and started going through everything in the protocol to figure out what it was. I came across Lions Mane, which is a 5-ar inhibitor (many of you pointed this out when we all started looking at the protocol) but it also increases prolactin levels and can kill sex drive and cause dysphoria.

So I removed it along with the egcg 3 days ago and the depression started to lift 24 hours later. I haven't really noticed any negative effects after removing it either, I think it's quite an overrated thing to take. The only benefit I guess is the 5-ar inhibition, but as my t levels and free t levels were also on the low side, I suspect the 5-ar's were causing these problems.

I continue to take reishi that's the only 5-ar inhibitor left in my batch. But I have completely removed lions mane and egcg.

I also found out that after many weeks of experimentation with b vitamins, b12 doesn't appear to be causing the brain fog. I think the b complex is, so I am not sure which of the b's is doing it yet. I need to try them all again. I don't think it's b6, so it must be b2 or b1 that is giving me terrible brain fog and sleepiness.

I have yet to take b12 oils and folate stand alone to see the reaction, as I recently ran out.

Sleep has already improved and I suspect without the b vitamins will continue to do so. Fatigue still seems pretty well buffered even without the 5-ar inhibitors.

But I am essentially off protocol now as I've removed some major components.

@mariovitali @Reading_Steiner @dahsar


I see, I'm still loosely following it just incase it is doing something good, but im missing a lot of doses, the main difference i've noticed is that I can play a wider variety of games without having the overactive nervous response that makes me have to stop playing after 2 minutes, it could just be symptoms shifting around though and nothing to do with the things we've been taking. health hasn't really improved in general and my brain is still bad at certain things that I was good at 2 years ago.
Sorry it hasn't had much of an effect. I'm still at 80%. I might improve more but not sure really. I'm glad to get back to where I am now. But my flu jab next month will probably knock me back. Be interesting to see how much by.

Even so long term I think I'll do better.

@Judee asked me awhile ago what had helped the most. I think the b vitamin's and b12 plus oat bran and reishi combo. Plus the nac and glycine have been the best really. Nac is brilliant stuff. I take 6 to 8g a day
Hey Judee,

I'd definitely not take any of the 5 ar inhibitors. I don't think we really know how these would effect women even if we know exactly how they effect men. So no lion's mane, no egcg. But the rest I'd say is seemingly safe and ok to try.

By body does seem to retain the benefits. I don't crash nearly as much as I used to and even if I do I'm over it in 24 hours. It's a total turn around considering bad crashes would last a week or two and my immune system was activated for weeks on end.

I've still no idea if that was purely due to herpes veridai alone or not. But as I still have ME maybe not.

Some things like high dose NAC are active against Coxsackie viruses. So if I have those then it's quite possible I'm very slowly attacking them and I'll make small but noticeable improvements over months.

Although they say the same with methylation. Repairing nerves takes years not weeks.

Also my immune system needs to gradually replace infected b cells that have ebv with those that don't. That's a very long process as well. Taking in my opinion years not months.

So possibly if I don't get struck down by covid or a bad virus. I might eventually turn this around.

Good luck if you try any of the supplements.
Hey @DrUniverse

I do yes! I take 6g to 8g a day. Cort Johnson just wrote a whole article on nac. It's amazing stuff for keeping the mitos working. However this study you've linked is really interesting. My ebv symptoms have definitely disappeared. I don't even have fatigue anymore. But as you might know my white blood cell count is low and neutrophil count is very low. I've got no idea what's causing it. I'm going to remove b12 and B2 for awhile and see if things change. But I can't see why b12 would do that.

Nac is definitely something I don't want to remove :) glad it helps you!
@godlovesatrier - I'm glad to hear you made improvement on Joshua's protocol even though you had to stop some (most?) of it! I've been taking NAC for years, but not in the doses you are. I think I'll try increasing my dose (have been taking 600 - 1200 mg a day)

My WBC has been low for over 20 years - last test was 3.4, the range was 3.8 - 5.10 and my absolute neutrophils were 1367, the range is 1500 - 7800. My doctor just shrugs when she sees this. I've been fighting a sinus type infection for weeks now, my andrographis isn't quite doing the job like it used to. I've added in colloidal silver and liposomal vitamin C which help some, and think I'm going to get some goldenseal. It's so frustrating! I'll feel better for a day and then relapse just like that!

Anyways, I wanted to tell you I've recently read that lithium is supposed to raise WBC - so I've started taking 10 mg lithium orotate (much much smaller doses than are used for bipolar) - too soon to tell if it will do any good. It's also supposed to help transport B12 into the brain - will see!

fwiw, for a long time I couldn't tolerate extra B2. I seemed to do well with all the other Bs but extra B2 always left me feeling yucky, though now after several years I am tolerating it. So it might be the one you're having trouble with.

B1 is very good for me, but it's the one that depleted my phosphorous but as soon I discovered that, I added in a phosphorous supplement and now am doing fine with it.

I didn't follow your progress here, my brain was felt overwhelmed with info! But I appreciate your thorough documentation of what you've done with the protocol! :nerd:
Hey Mary. Thanks for the comment! Don't blame you for not being able to keep up with my posts ha!

Thanks though for telling me about your own history. As it turns out I now realise lots of PR members fit into the same category where white blood cell count is concerned. I just find it so strange that they were well over 5 the day before I got my second covid jab and seemingly now it seems like I won't get back to that point. Maybe this NIH billion dollar focussed research effort will at least answer questions about why the vaccines damages people.

At least I know I fit into the ME family plain and simple. Even my esr test was always a 2.

@heapsreal tried lithium too sadly for him he wasn't sure it worked. Maybe I should give it a go tho. Josh is quite keen on taking lithium.

What does do you take @Mary ?

I do well with b1 too. My prolactin is still very high so my doctor is looking into that. But I wonder if it hasn't always been very high? :( Seems like another potential marker for ME.
Sorry Mary I just saw your lithium dose. When do you think you'll know if it's working or not? I think as my doctor is now doing loads of tests I prob shouldn't influence things for the time being, but can hold lithium for a longer term solution maybe.

Got my results today which show an increase in other immune cells, but the neutrophils continue to drop.

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