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RANDOM THOUGHTS ….‘Life After Death’ (Kubler-Ross), The Controversy About ‘The Tunnel And The Light’ Reconsidered …. Light Wins

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Is that all there is? — Peggy Lee
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I remember reading ‘On Life After Death’ back in the 80’s, and being transfixed by Ross’s essays, all based on the alleged approximately 20,000 interviews she’d done with people who’d died and then come back to life, sometimes thru field CPR, sometimes on surgical tables and gurneys in hospitals. They seemed to offer a sense of safety, as tho this reality not only isn’t all there is, but may not even be the best of all there is.


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I’d started my spiritual journey many years before, when my beloved little kitty had died, leaving my six year old self weeping and grief-stricken. I started asking those uncomfortable (well, at least generally uncomfortable to the adults who were being asked to provide answers to the unanswerable) questions about death, and where my kitty had gone and would she be happy there and would she remember me and would I ever see her again and would she get enough to eat and would there be someone there to pet her and play with her and would they let her sleep with them … and …. and …. and …..



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Mama, who always answered my questions as tho I were a very, very small adult with a very, extremely large curiosity, gave me the adult answer …. that no one really knows what happens after our bodies die, or where the rest of us goes, or even what the ‘rest’ part is.



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The publication of ‘On Life After Death’ was followed, predictably, by a spate of critiques, scoffers, deniers and scientific explainers, all along the lines of “It’s a brain spasm ….”, “It’s the brain denying the reality….”, “It’s your brain entertaining you while you die …”, “It’s the brain shutting down …”, yadda yadda yadda blah blah yadda ....

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There’s much about Kubler-Ross that interferes with accepting the potential truths that her interviews expressed, and I’m not even taking into consideration her flirtation with channeling spirits, or her repudiation of much of what she’d claimed to believe earlier in her life, including her opposition to physician-assisted suicide which, during her last months on the planet, she whole-heartedly endorsed. But she stuck by the experiences that virtually every one of her interviewees had described … the tunnel, the light, the loved ones, the peaceful easy feeling ….

So hey, no one’s perfect. This is where separating the message from the messenger is both critical and not always easy to do …..



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I rejected all of the ‘explainers’, even as I was still struggling with embracing the alternative view and trying to incorporate it into my slowly developing spiritual worldview …. that something in us survives the experience of death, and, in fact, observes it as it’s happening and maintains a sort of soothing colloquy with us as it unfolds, accompanying us on our journey ….

“The study’s authors conclude that although studies to date have not
been able to absolutely prove the reality or meaning of patients’ experiences
and claims of awareness in relation to death, it has been impossible
to disclaim them either. They say recalled experience surrounding death
now merits further genuine empirical investigation without prejudice.”
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Well, the scoffers have even less ground to stand on now, following a comprehensive study that establishes both the validity and the likelihood of this strange and inexplicable experience, described as different from hallucinations, delusions, illusions, dreams or CPR-induced consciousness, or the trick of a disordered or dying brain, and which opens doors to so many other ruminations about what death is, the purpose of life, and the existence of what comes after. Questions that have been asked by all known religions, civilizations, and peoples, almost all of which have come to the conclusion that life, the life that we know and accept as ‘life’, is just another step or transition to …. something else.



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But a transition to what? Where DO we go from here? Are we recycled in some way, like a sort of spiritual Fluff & Fold, and sent back into the dance, squeaky-clean and ready for exciting new lessons? Or are we incorporated into a greater whole, to be reshuffled like a deck of cards, and then used as the component parts of something entirely new and altogether different ….

Or is it just ‘light's out, thank you for playing …..’

There’s no agreement on this part of The Great Question, and if you have thoughts on it, please know that they’re welcomed here, so share what you think, imagine, believe, or fantasize the next step might be in this great, unknowable, journey ….. or on any other part of all this that takes your fancy ….


Lucid Dying: Patients Recall Death Experiences During CPR
https://neurosciencenews.com/lucid-dying-cpr-21785/
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Comments

Rufous McKinney
YippeeKi YOW !! said:
Which I find just too depressing to think about too long. It makes me uber nervous
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which is why maybe its not that important to Pin It All Down. Its logical to try to pin it all down, but logic can trap us.

I decided a while ago that I don't need a Unified Field Theory. Each bit does not have to add up. It does not even have to make sense. Whatever Sense Is,

YippeeKi YOW !! said:
can somehow tap into that great stream of everything happening all together,
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If we can conflate an almost unlimited possibility of universes combined with time being an artificial construct....(which my little pea brain can only grasp a tiny hint thereof)....well I enjoy imagining "change the outcome"...or what seems to be the outcome, of past actions.

Which is partially why I desired to write the revisionist history novel about my great grandmother. But then I didn't. And thats OK.
 
YippeeKi YOW !!
Jyoti said:
Or maybe...the second we die we are being born? Not the end, but the beginning? What is that--an ouroboros?
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That's the concept I'm most comfortable with, and it's one that's been echoed by poets philosophers, and mystics. And politicians, if they could figure out how to tax and/or vote-hustle that transitional being.

Yeah, its the ouroborus, the snake eating it's tail. I think of ancient Greek origin, but probably even earlier. Even the ancient Greeks werent above expanding on a good idea ...
 
Rufous McKinney
YippeeKi YOW !! said:
Even the ancient Greeks werent above expanding on a good idea ...
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I've had a whole series of shifts in energy ever since this lovely post on Monday. A significant syncronicity even took place, to which I am so Grateful.

However, why am I so TIRED? I mean, I was entirely enjoying this workshop video from Carolyn MYSS. Except I had to be blindfolded and moaning on the sofa.

I"d prefer to continue working on MY SPIRITUAL AWAKENING.

Well, so much for plans.
 
YippeeKi YOW !!
Rufous McKinney said:
However, why am I so TIRED?
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Maybe running thru an ME cycle of some sort? I go thru those from time to time, where a deep low will follow a moderate high or bit of njoyment ..... Or maybe the incredibly powerful and draining energy that's surrounded the elections? Maybe you've been hit with some kind of emotional truth .... those'll run your battery down like a lightening strike .....
Rufous McKinney said:
I was entirely enjoying this workshop video from Carolyn MYSS.
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I like Carolyn Myss, she feels like the real deal, based on ery little information and a book fo hers I barely got into before the ability to read or focus on a page fled like it was running from wolves .....
Rufous McKinney said:
Well, so much for plans.
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Oh, dont stop. God loves plans, gives him a little chuckle ....
 
G
You can't say that there is life after death, but you can't say that there isn't either.

All we know is that a uniquely clear consciousness is perceived (by 10 to 20 percent of these people) the moment someone goes into cardiac arrest. It is completely illogical that someone who has no or a greatly reduced blood flow to the brain at that moment experiences a clear consciousness. Nor can it be explained by the observed explosion of activity in the brain. There are also people who had a flat EEG.
 
YippeeKi YOW !!
Gijs said:
You can't say that there is life after death, but you can't say that there isn't either.
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Rather ghoulishly, I used to wonder if you really died instantly the minute you were guillotined, or beheaded by any other means. It all seemed too neat.

And then I found a writer of the time, whose name I cant remember (this was years ago, and right now I cant remember where my cuddly, pom-pomed socks are), who wrote an account of watching the execution of a famous friend, and saw the eyes search the crowd as the executioner held up the bloody severed head. When the eyes found him, they looked long into his, and he said that there was no doubt in his mind that there was consciousness there.

None of us commenting believes that we have the definitie answer to either the blog's questions or even our own. It's just interesting to consider, like alternate universes, or that we may be living in a computer simulation, or the possibility of a holographic universe.

Welcome, and glad you joined the speculations, @Gijs ....:woot::woot::woot: :thumbsup:
 
YippeeKi YOW !!
@Gijs
Gijs said:
It is completely illogical that someone who has no or a greatly reduced blood flow to the brain at that moment experiences a clear consciousness.
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I've read that the brain can live on, fully functional, for about three minutes on the blood supply circulating in it at the time that additional supply was cut off .....

EDIT .... To add @Gijs 's quote that I forgot to add when I originally posted this ....this is becoming a tedious little habit and is starting to worry me .... at least it does when I remember that I've done it ....
 
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Jyoti
YippeeKi YOW !! said:
Rather ghoulishly, I used to wonder if you really died instantly the minute you were guillotined, or beheaded by any other means. It all seemed too neat.
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Ha! Me too. I guess it brings up the questions about what constitutes life or death. Now there is a kettle of fish! Is someone braindead but on life support ....alive?

Is someone whose head is severed from their body necessary not alive?

Was my friend, whose essence was clearly no longer in his dying body dead while the body continued to breath, the heart to pump? And what about afterward, when it all stopped? Was he, hovering in a corner of the ceiling officially dead then?
YippeeKi YOW !! said:
saw the eyes search the crowd as the executioner held up the bloody severed head. When the eyes found him, they looked long into his, and he said that there was no doubt in his mind that there was consciousness there.
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Incredible story.
I have read a number of others about people who were in terrible car crashes. Some were aware of separating from their bodies prior to the impact, seeing it coming and detaching. Of course those ones were pulled back in and 'lived' to tell their tale.
Gijs said:
It is completely illogical that someone who has no or a greatly reduced blood flow to the brain at that moment experiences a clear consciousness.
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Excellent observation.
I think this is all a bit above our pay grade and we probably won't know for sure...until we do. But it is fascinating.
 
YippeeKi YOW !!
@Jyoti, @Gijs

I checked up on my comment, above, re the brain's ability to survive for at least 3 minutes without blood flow, and here's what I found ....

"After three minutes, global cerebral ischemia —the lack of blood flow to the entire brain—can lead to brain injury that gets progressively worse. By nine minutes, severe and permanent brain damage is likely. After 10 minutes, the chances of survival are low." -- Verywellhealth ...​

But of course, if you've been beheaded, the chances of survival are .... uhhh..... miniscule.... :xeyes::xeyes::xeyes:

And I came across this creepy little headline, which pissed me off, because I'm a fan of pigs and their intelligence ....

Pig brains kept alive outside body for hours after death
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01216-4
 
G
For those who are interested here is a study from van Lommel e.a. 2001 The lancet.

Lommel, Pim van, Ruud van Wees, Vincent Meyers, and Ingrid Elfferich. “Near-Death Experience in Survivors of Cardiac Arrest: A Prospective Study in the Netherlands.” The Lancet 358, no. 9298 (December 15, 2001): 2039–2045.
 
YippeeKi YOW !!
Rufous McKinney said:
medical research is often despicable
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I could barely bring myself to read into the article, but I got far enough to learn that they used pig brains from pigs that had just been slaughtered for food, where the brain itself was dead yet, so it wasn't as despicable as it could have been, but it still gave me the creeps and made me deeply sad.

I dont know if it's due to reading Charlotte's Pig at an early age, or subsequent reading down the years that established that pigs are highly intelligent animals, and the only reason they're so befouled and dirty is because of the vile way that they're kept in captivity.

But I agree. Generally, what I read about 'medical research' doesnt inspire trust. There are mice that are specifically bred for research, some having no immune systems, others genetically bred for obesity, others having specific microbiomes.

But since the option is to cage humans and use them instead, it seems that we're stuck.
 

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