Fecal Transplant study: 58-70% response rate

[Thomas]

Sounds like you've been through the wringer, like me. One question is, why do CDiff patients recover after just a few implants, and yet we ME/CFS patients do not?

Cdiff is a clearly defined and known infection that can probably occur to a vast majority of the population if they are acutely infected, and seems to be isolated to the gut with little involvement of other body systems unless the infection gets out of control.

ME is a much more complex illness that seems to be more tied to a genetic pre-disposition of sorts and includes most body systems and most body organs to all it's sufferers to some degree or the next.

The "one and done" FMT approach to Cdiff seems too easy a fix for such a complex illness such as ME.
That's my opinion.

 

[MonkeyMan]

Agree with your comments. So do you think long-term FMT capsules are also too easy a fix, or could they do the trick by normalizing the gut and keeping it normalized? Or is this just wishful thinking?

 

[Thomas]

Agree with your comments. So do you think long-term FMT capsules are also too easy a fix, or could they do the trick by normalizing the gut and keeping it normalized? Or is this just wishful thinking?

No I think if a patient can pin point and implicate Abx as the culprit in initiating their ME/CFS as you do, than long term therapy with the capsules seems a very reasonable treatment. I would start low and slow though as we seem to be more sensitive to these things.

 

[MonkeyMan]

No I think if a patient can pin point and implicate Abx as the culprit in initiating their ME/CFS as you do, than long term therapy with the capsules seems a very reasonable treatment. I would start low and slow though as we seem to be more sensitive to these things.

Well, I'm glad you feel it seems reasonable. Let's see what others on this board think, but the logic seems to be there.

You're sure right about being more sensitive. I can't tolerate virtually any therapy. Even vitamin pills send me spiralling into a decline!

Cheers Thomas and I hope you (and I and the whole community) find some answers soon.

 

[Thomas]

Well, I'm glad you feel it seems reasonable. Let's see what others on this board think, but the logic seems to be there.

You're sure right about being more sensitive. I can't tolerate virtually any therapy. Even vitamin pills send me spiralling into a decline!

Cheers Thomas and I hope you (and I and the whole community) find some answers soon.

Thank you, you too.
Given my gut problems I'm very interested in this therapy as well. So if you try it please be sure to let us know how it goes!

 

[helen1]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if my question is answered in these pages, which is: are fecal capsules actually available anywhere yet that anyone knows of? I mean commercial ones, not DIY ones.

 

[IreneF]

I'm going to take part in a non-interventional poo study at Stanford. I don't have any info about it, tho. They called and asked if I were interested.

 

[MonkeyMan]

are fecal capsules actually available anywhere yet that anyone knows of? I mean commercial ones, not DIY ones.

No, I don't think so. But you can keep track of the latest developments at http://thepowerofpoop.com/resources/innovation/

 

[douglasmich]

i have bacterial slow transit consitpaiton thanks to ANTIBIOTICS and have been on a 0 fiber diet for years which has ruined my flora but controlled constipation.

I feel like i have struck gold. I will be trying Implant enemas with resistant starch and probiotics since these make me worse orally.

I think they will cure me

 

[knackers323]

@douglasmich how did it go?

@helen1 have you managed to find any commercial ones?

 

[helen1]

@knackers323 I have been exploring other things, haven't looked into finding commercial fecal capsules. Hopefully they will appear on the market some day soon...

 

[Gatorjake3]

% were CFS-free as a result of fecal transplant.

Hi Thomas,

My gut problems and ME/CFS all started at precisely the same time: when I was taking tetracycline daily for acne. I'd had loads of antibiotics before then, but this was the straw (or really, sledgehammer) that broke the camel's back. I've had poor GI function since then (although I don't know if I technically qualify as having IBS). I assume you have ME/CFS as well as IBS?

mine seemed to have started after taking accutane for acne, I wonder what the connection there could be?

 

[Sushi]

mine seemed to have started after taking accutane for acne, I wonder what the connection there could be?

Accutane has often been mentioned as part of patients' early history with ME/CFS. If you do a Google Site Search you will find quite a few mentions of it.

 

[Gatorjake3]

Accutane has often been mentioned as part of patients' early history with ME/CFS. If you do a Google Site Search you will find quite a few mentions of it.

I will do that thanks.
"Accutane and CFS" a good start?

 

[Sushi]

"Accutane and CFS" a good start?

Since Google Site Search only searches this forum, any mention of Accutane will be related to ME/CFS, so just Accutane should be enough.

 

[Aubry]

It doesn't last: fecal transplants. And you need a lot to replenish a gut microbiome. Also, I think it is necessary to wipe out first your bad flora with - for example - oral Vancomycin before you put in new poop

 

[wstalcup]

I had a C-Diff infection for literally 3 years.. vancomycin was like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Finally Fidaxomicin (Dificid) worked and killed those little c-diff bastards but I'm sure my whole gut-flora system is still destroyed and a major factor to my CFS. I still haven't found a working probiotic. A successful homemade fecal transplant is much easier said then done. My thoughts on swallowing a frozen poop pill went from "Never in a million years" to "bring it on!" LOL Anyone have long term success with a probiotic? I wonder if you can make your own frozen poop pills from a healthy donor!

 

[Aubry]

Since we probably have continuously inflammation in our gut linings, fecal transplants work only temporary for ME/CFS. I have a friend who did fecal transplantation in Argentinia for 3 weeks (every day) and she felt wonderful during that period. But after one week without, again bad like before.

 

[wstalcup]

Well, I believe fecal transplants only affect the large intestine not the small intestine. knowing my own body, it seems my small intestine is the problem for me. I think swallowing a poop pill with good NATURAL probiotic strains will obviously get into the small intestine and possibly take hold. Sure the small intestine is probably inflamed as well, but butyric acid can reduce inflammation greatly and found in significant quantities in plain butter! 1 tablespoon of butter every day has helped me a lot! I am not a CFS doctor or researcher and maybe that's a good thing! Maybe I'm just a cynical jerk but I'm beginning to think these doctors/scientists don't want you to know of simple cure since there would be no money it for them and their out of a job. If they do ever release a poop pill, I'm betting it will consist of special strains that can't take hold or can't reproduce forcing you to take their pills for life. Definitely I would NOT suggest try to make your own natural poop pills from a good donor but I do suggest to try butter.. unless you think I happen to be the CEO of a butter company! LOL