WIRED AND TIRED WITH ANXIETY and HUGE STARTUP FROM TINY DOSES answers near

I have been working closely, from the beginning, with some people in the "wired and tired" (Thanks to Dannybex) characteristic. I am seeing some patterns and need some more information. I have reached an hypotheisis that I need to confirm or not as best as possible.

Also, is anxiety a present? Is it aggravated by the following supplements or others?

For those with huge response to mb12, adb12, methylfolate, l-carnitine fumarate (or other carnitine) and having done or attempted a titration of any size onto these items.

Also, if the person has tried any benzos, their responses and also if they had anything like intradose withdrawal or "tolerance withdrawal" problems.

For anybody willing, please give me your email address in a private message and I will send an excel spreadsheet set up as a lifetime history of symptoms for all the symptoms on the list. I will be basing it on an updated list from what is already posted.

I believe I have a correct analytical solution and a possible protocol but I need more information to be sure.

I don't suppose you have any ideas about dannybex's B6 troubles? They sound very similar to my B6 troubles.

I do fall into the extreme wired but tired category, but haven't really followed your protocol -- at least not yet, so this isn't really applicable for me.

For what it's worth, benzos only give short term relief for me and I have rapid development of tolerance, so I've never used them for long enough to have troubles with them. I just persevere, which is incredibly unpleasant.

hixxy said:

I don't suppose you have any ideas about dannybex's B6 troubles? They sound very similar to my B6 troubles.

I do fall into the extreme wired but tired category, but haven't really followed your protocol -- at least not yet, so this isn't really applicable for me.

For what it's worth, benzos only give short term relief for me and I have rapid development of tolerance, so I've never used them for long enough to have troubles with them. I just persevere, which is incredibly unpleasant.

Click to expand...

Hi Hixxy,

I don't suppose you have any ideas about dannybex's B6 troubles? They sound very similar to my B6 troubles.

I don't. Can you tell me about yours, in detail please.

For what it's worth, benzos only give short term relief for me and I have rapid development of tolerance, so I've never used them for long enough to have troubles with them. I just persevere, which is incredibly unpleasant.

Do you mean "tolerance withdrawal" as I have seen it referred to recently? This is exactly what I am chasing down. I believe I know what is going on but I need more information.

The "wired and tired", rapid development of benzo "tolerance" problems and hyper-responsiveness to some or all of mb12, adb12, l-carnitine fumarate and Metafolin are all characteristics.

Freddd said:

Hi Hixxy,

I don't suppose you have any ideas about dannybex's B6 troubles? They sound very similar to my B6 troubles.

I don't. Can you tell me about yours, in detail please.

For what it's worth, benzos only give short term relief for me and I have rapid development of tolerance, so I've never used them for long enough to have troubles with them. I just persevere, which is incredibly unpleasant.

Do you mean "tolerance withdrawal" as I have seen it referred to recently? This is exactly what I am chasing down. I believe I know what is going on but I need more information.

The "wired and tired", rapid development of benzo "tolerance" problems and hyper-responsiveness to some or all of mb12, adb12, l-carnitine fumarate and Metafolin are all characteristics.

Click to expand...

What I mean with benzo tolerance is, their effectiveness wears off so rapidly, that in order to maintain effectiveness, the dose creeps up quite quickly too. This is why I don't persist with them.

I do have minor withdrawals if I take them daily for a week, but I've never allowed myself to take them longer then this.

The withdrawal are increased agitation, agressision, dizziness, deja vu, depression. It's not too bad, and short lived as I've kept my benzo use to a minimum.

hixxy said:

What I mean with benzo tolerance is, their effectiveness wears off so rapidly, that in order to maintain effectiveness, the dose creeps up quite quickly too. This is why I don't persist with them.

I do have minor withdrawals if I take them daily for a week, but I've never allowed myself to take them longer then this.

The withdrawal are increased agitation, agressision, dizziness, deja vu, depression. It's not too bad, and short lived as I've kept my benzo use to a minimum.

Click to expand...

Hi Hixxy,

Can you tell me about the b6 troubles please.

Freddd said:

Hi Hixxy,

Can you tell me about the b6 troubles please.

Click to expand...

I suffer pyroluria. Just over 2 years ago I was put on 200mg / day of b6. Almost immediately I developed sensitivity to bright light and sound and a very severe intolerance of dietary glutamate.

At this time I already had a more "normal" level of MCS, but my reactions to this sentivities worsened over night.

Instead of just neverousness, malaise, agitation, depression I'd get with a reaction, I was suddenly having muscle shaking problems and vibration sensations through my body.

Clearly the b6 put my nervous system even further into overdrive and made my glutamate receptor hyperactivation problems a LOT worse. It was amazing how fast it did it.

Unfortunately once this was made worse, there was no turning back and any time I take a reasonable dose of b6 now it worsens again.

These shaking symptoms have gone on to all sorts of neuromuscular problems and these shaking / convulsing fits when having strong MCS / EMF reactions.

hixxy said:

I suffer pyroluria. Just over 2 years ago I was put on 200mg / day of b6. Almost immediately I developed sensitivity to bright light and sound and a very severe intolerance of dietary glutamate.

At this time I already had a more "normal" level of MCS, but my reactions to this sentivities worsened over night.

Instead of just neverousness, malaise, agitation, depression I'd get with a reaction, I was suddenly having muscle shaking problems and vibration sensations through my body.

Clearly the b6 put my nervous system even further into overdrive and made my glutamate receptor hyperactivation problems a LOT worse. It was amazing how fast it did it.

Unfortunately once this was made worse, there was no turning back and any time I take a reasonable dose of b6 now it worsens again.

These shaking symptoms have gone on to all sorts of neuromuscular problems and these shaking / convulsing fits when having strong MCS / EMF reactions.

Click to expand...

Hi Hixxy,

Have you ever gone though the list of symptoms on the BASICS thread. Could you go through the list of symptoms and mark all the ones you have, maybe by pasting a colored "yes" after each one you have. That makes it easy to spot. Post that HERE, pleasenot on the BASICS thread. I think you have a lot more possibly going on.

Freddd said:

Hi Hixxy,

Have you ever gone though the list of symptoms on the BASICS thread. Could you go through the list of symptoms and mark all the ones you have, maybe by pasting a colored "yes" after each one you have. That makes it easy to spot. Post that HERE, pleasenot on the BASICS thread. I think you have a lot more possibly going on.

Click to expand...

I presume you man Active B12 Protocol Basics thread. Is there a clearly defined symptom list there you want me to work through. Towards the start of the thread I can't see a list as per se. Are you able to provide me a link to the specific post?

Another thing you may find interesting is extreme intolerance of calcium for similar reasons as B6.

hixxy said:

I presume you man Active B12 Protocol Basics thread. Is there a clearly defined symptom list there you want me to work through. Towards the start of the thread I can't see a list as per se. Are you able to provide me a link to the specific post?

Another thing you may find interesting is extreme intolerance of calcium for similar reasons as B6.

Click to expand...

Hi Hixxy,

Post #24 I believe.

SYMPTOMS, SIGNS, CHARACTERISTICS OF METHYB12, ADENOSYLB12, METHYLFOLATE and limited cofactors, CNS and body deficiencies
Version 2.0 01/21/2012

mouth sensitive to hot and cold YES
sore burning tongue
beef-red tongue, possibly smoother than normal YES
sore mouth, no infection or apparant reason YES
teeth sensitive to hot and cold
canker sores
dry mouth YES
excessive thirst YES
burning bladder (no UTI)
painful urgency (no UTI)
burning urethra (no UTI)

burning muscle pain YES
accumulating muscle pains following exertion YES
sore muscles throughout body YES
lack of muscle recovery after exercise YES
exercise does not build muscle YES
extremely sore neck muscles reversing normal curvature of neck YES
exercise deblitates for up to a week, making things much worse
painfully tight, stiff muscles, especially legs and arms YES
frequent muscle spasms anywhere in body
muscle pain especially around attachment points to bones YES
Eighteen severely tender muscle spots of FMS
Widespread muscle pain responding to NSAID
Bursitis
Joint pain
Pain in weight bearing joints
morning joint stiffness


sick stomach
nausea
stomach not emptying YES
bloating
frequent vomiting
acid regurgitation
dyspepsia YES
flatulence YES
altered bowel habits YES
abdominal pain YES
loss of appetite for meat, fish, eggs, dairy, the only b12 contining foods, nutrient specific anorexia
intermittent constipation YES
intermittant diarrhea
irritable bowel syndrome YES
Crohns disease (direction of causality if any not established)
Celiac disease (direction of causality if any not established) - gluten sensitivity YES
Dairy sensitivity - beyond lactose intolerance YES
sores, ulcers and lesions along entire GI tract or any part YES
anorexia
Bullimia
weight loss YES
weight gain

reduced libido - loss of sexual desire YES
loss of orgasmic intensity YES
unsatisfying orgasms YES
inability to orgasm
loss and/or change of genital sensations YES
burning genital skin sensation
unable to feel aroused YES
numb genital skin
low sex hormones YES

MEN
low testosterone YES
erectile disfunction
low sperm count
poor sperm motility
Poor sperm quality
no sperm


WOMEN
low testosterone
low estrogen
post partum depression
post partum psychosis
False positive pap smears
menstrual symptoms
Frequent miscarriage
PMS
Chronic yeast infections
onset of menopause - unexpected

paleness
rapid heart rate
heart arythymias
shortness of breath YES
heart palpitations YES
weak pulse YES
congestive heart failure
arteriosclerosis

Widespread pain throughout body
Hypothyroid (direction of causality if any not established) YES
Hasimoto's Thyroiditis, affected during active phase, appears to be deficiency result

High homocysteine
High urinary MMA

dizziness - even unable to walk
vertigo

Confusion
Disorientation
Difficulty in word finding YES
irritable YES
depression YES
SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder
mental slowing
personality changes YES
chronic malaise YES
poor concentration YES
Difficulty assimilating new information
Reduced task completion YES
moodiness YES
tiredness YES
mood swings YES
memory loss
listlessness YES
impaired connection to others YES
mentally fuzzy, foggy, brainfog
inappropriate anger YES
rage YES
psychosis, including many of the most florid psychosis seen in literature, megoblastic madness
Alzheimer's
delirium
dementia
paranoia YES
delusions
hallucinations - multisensory
anxiety or tension YES
nervousness YES
mania YES
panic attacks
Hypersensitivity to touch
Hypersensitivity to odors YES
Hypersensitivity to tastes YES
Hypersensitivity to clothing texture YES
Hypersensitivity to chemicals YES
Hypersensitivity to body malfunctions, symtoms
Hypersensitivity to sounds and noises YES
Hypersensitivity to light and visual stimuli YES
Hypersensitivity to blood sugar changes YES
Hypersensitivity to internal metabolic changes YES
Hypersensitivity to temperature changes YES



mild to extremely severe fatigue YES
continuous extremely severe fatigue
easy fatiguability YES
severe abnormal muscle fatigue up to and including apparent paralysis leading to death
weakness YES


sleep disorders
non restorative sleep
lack of dreaming YES
Night terrors
Prolonged hypnogogic state transitioning to sleep
Sleep paralysis

alteration of touch all over body, normal touch can be unpleasant and painful
alterations and loss of taste
taste hallucinations
smell hallucinations
sound hallucinations
visual hallucinations
metallic taste YES
alterations and loss of smell
loss of smell and taste of strawberries specifically
loss or alteration of smell and taste of potato chips specifically
roughening and increased raspiness of voice, mb12 can smooth in mid word
blurring of vision - can be sudden onset and sudden return YES
dimmed vision - usually not noticed going into it because change can be very slow or present for life
Visual impairment can be seen; ophthalmological exam may show bilateral visual loss
optic atophy
centrocecal scotomata
hypersensitivity/intolerance to bright light YES
Slow to adapt to night vision
Night blindness
tearing
redness of eyes
Age Related Macular Degneration
Optic neuritis
diminished hearing - gradual onset or present for life, sudden return possible
tinnitus - ringing in ears YES
always feeling cold
low body temperature YES
intolerance to loud sounds YES
intolerance to multiple sounds YES

Brainstem or cerebellar signs or even reversible (with mb12) coma may occur
neural tube defect
mother of child with neural tube defect
demyelinated areas on nerves
subacute combined degeneration
axonial degeneration of spinal cord
unsteadiness of gait
ataxic gait, particularly in dark YES
positive Romberg YES
positive Lhermittes

neuropathies, many types YES
progressive bilateral neuropathies
demyelination of nerves - white spots on nerves on MRIs
loss of detail and sensual aspects of touch all over body
paresthesias anywhere in body - tingling, pins and needles, etc YES
paresthesias in one left foot only
paresthesias in one right foot only
paresthesias in one left leg only
paresthesias in one right leg only
paresthesias in one left hand only
paresthesias in one right hand only
paresthesias in one left arm only
paresthesias in one right arm only
paresthesias in both feet - cobwebs, hairs etc
paresthesias in both feet - burning, cold, wet, etc YES
paresthesias in both feet - tingling,painnful tingling, etc
paresthesias in both feet - pain - mild to seveere or acute, shallow to deep, etc
paresthesias in both feet - numbness in skin, etc
paresthesias in both feet - numbness in muscles, etc
paresthesias in both legs - cobwebs, hairs etc
paresthesias in both legs- burning, cold, wet, etc
paresthesias in both legs - tingling,painnful tingling, etc
paresthesias in both feet - pain - mild to seveere or acute, shallow to deep, etc
paresthesias in both legs- numbness in skin, etc
paresthesias in both legs - numbness in muscles, etc
paresthesias in both legs - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hair, pain, numbness, etc
paresthesias in both hands - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
paresthesias in both arms - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
Loss of position sense is 1 of 2 most common abnormality (or vibration sense)
Loss of vibration sense is 1 of 2 most common abnormality (or position sense)
Loss of motor control over some or all of toes
Loss of motor control over part or all of feet
Loss of sense of joint position
hands feel gloved with loss of sensitivity - glove anesthesia
feet feel socked by loss of sensitivity - stocking anesthesia
glove and stocking anesthesia
trembling YES
neuropathic bladder
unable to release bladder, mild to severe
unable to fully empty the bladder
urinary incontenance - occasionally to frequently
fecal incontinance - occasionally to frequently
sudden electric like shocks/pains shooting down arms, body, legs shooting down from neck movement
sudden "ice pick" pain
standing with eyes closed, a slight nudge or bump causes loss of balance YES
most patients have signs of both spinal cord and peripheral nerve involvement

The effect on reflexes is quite variable
Motor impairment may range from only mild clumsiness to a spastic paraplegia
clumsiness
slowed nerve impulses
decreased reflexes
difficulty swallowing YES
brisk reflexes
decreased deep tendon reflex
toes turn up instead of down in reflex to sole stimulation
Positive bilateral Babinski reflex
Foot Drop
tripping over toes
injuring toes catching top of toes on floor
general feeling of weakness YES
drowsy

suspicious
apathetic YES
rapid and unpredictable emotional changes YES
limbs feel stiff YES


impaired white blood cell response YES
poor resistance to infections YES
easy bruising
pronounced anemia
macrocytic anemia
megablastic anemia
pernicious anemia
decreased blood clotting
low hematocrit
MCV > 93 first warning, YES
MCV > 97 alert
MCV > 100 outright macrocytosis
MCV > 105 urgently needs treatment, severe problem






elevated MCH (Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin)
elevated LDH
big fat red cells (when said this way usually with happy or healthy modifying it completely misinterpreting results of MCV
platelet disfunction, low count
white cell changes, low count YES
hypersegmented neutrophils

headaches
inflamed epithelial tissues - mucous membranes, skin, GI, vaginal, lungs YES
inflamed endothelial tissues - lining of veins and arteries
mucous becomes thick, jellied and sticky YES
asthma
chronic cough that mimics asthma but isn't
chronic sinus congestion
dermatitis herpetiformis, chronic intensely burning itching rash
frequent infected follicles or acne type lesions all over body YES
chronic infections, many varieties possible YES
Seborrheic dermatitis
dandruff YES
eczema
dermatitis
skin on face, hands, feet, turns brown or yellow if anemia occurs
poor hair condition
thin nails YES
transverse ridges on nails, can happen as healing starts
splits/sores at corners of mouth -angular cheilitis
Hyperhidrosis - excessive sweating

Bariatric surgery
Dilantin and some other medications
Relatives, grandparant, parent, sibling, child, grandchild ever needing b12 shots or supplement
coma
seizures
brain atrophy with ileal tuberculosis preventing b12 absorbtion
Intestinal parasites YES
Intestinal bacterial overgrowrth YES
Low CSF cobalamin
Elevated CSF MMA
Elevated CSF Hcy
Low blood serum level
Elevated uMMA
Elevated blood serum Hcy


Starting AS INFANT OR CHILD

delayed myelination
failure to thrive
autism
delayed speech
depression
frequent or continuous toncilitis
frequent strep YES
frequent pneumonia
frequent longlasting supposed viral illnesses that linger and linger and linger
everything goes to the lungs for extended periods YES
headaches
growing pains
skin problems
dandruff
allergies YES
asthma
continuous swolen glands in neck
low grade fever for years
Night terrors
Prolonged hypnopompic state transitioning from sleep
Prolonged hypnagogic state transitioning to sleep
Sleep paralysis
seizures
coma
nosebleeds
FREQUENT DIAGNOSES OR OTHER PROVIDER BEHAVIOR

FMS
CFS YES
ME YES
ED
IBS YES
Sub-acute combined degeneration
Low Testosterone YES
Fertility Problems, male and female
Sleep Disorders
Neural Tube Defects
Peripheral Neuropathy YES
Polyneuropathy
Autonomic neuropathy
Conversion Disorder
Hypochondria
"TOO many symptoms to be believable"
Liar
Alcoholic - non-drinker or genuine light drinker
Removed from Practice for knowing to much
Its All In Your Head - IAIYH
Removed from practice for insisting that there is REALLY something wrong instead of IAIYH
Alzheimer's

Hi Freddd,
I get "wired tired" any time I try to take any of the forms of B12...a few weeks ago I was re-trying Hydroxy B12 1 drop/day (1,000 mcg) sub-lingual Holistic Health Megadrops...more recently Ad B12 (Dibencozide Source Naturals 1/4 x 10mg/day).

Methyl B12 (Jarrow 5,000 mcg) just makes me feel totally ill the following morning. Nausea, malaise, thirst, dehydration, metallic taste... (I don't think it's a low potassium reaction. I had my serum potassium level checked a couple of times).

Methylfolate (Solgar Metafolin 800 mcg) makes me feel totally ill as well...in the same way as Methyl B12 does.

I have played around with different doses, single supplements, combinations & whole protocols...both the Simplified Methylation Protocol & yours. The trialling of the protocols did appear to help a bit at first, taking me from bed-bound to mostly housebound & able to make short trips out once or twice a week.

I am now only taking B2 (Riboflavin), Manganese, Magnesium, Fish Oil, B1 (Thiamine), CoQ10...and trying to re-introduce Ad B12 and L-Carnitine Fumarate 500 mg (Jarrow).

Yesterday I left out the Ad B12 and I think the L-Carnitine Fumarate was what made me "wired tired" ...awake til after 1 am...when up until now I have been calm, relaxed & with good sleep onset on the B2 (Riboflavin).

I will PM you my email.

Thanks,

meryl

I have tried Valium in the past on the odd occasion. Found it helpful at the time. Never got addicted to it, but never took it for long. Never noticed any withdrawal or tolerance issues.

hixxy said:

I presume you man Active B12 Protocol Basics thread. Is there a clearly defined symptom list there you want me to work through. Towards the start of the thread I can't see a list as per se. Are you able to provide me a link to the specific post?

Another thing you may find interesting is extreme intolerance of calcium for similar reasons as B6.

Click to expand...

Hi Hixxy,

Thankyou for the list of symptoms. With more than 100 items there the sitiation is very clear. Basically you have a selction of symptoms for all 4 b12 deficiencies with an emphasis on adb12-CNS deficiency. Most of them could be gone or very reduced in a year. Are there other symptoms not accounted for in that list? What are they?

Freddd said:

Hi Hixxy,

Thankyou for the list of symptoms. With more than 100 items there the sitiation is very clear. Basically you have a selction of symptoms for all 4 b12 deficiencies with an emphasis on adb12-CNS deficiency. Most of them could be gone or very reduced in a year. Are there other symptoms not accounted for in that list? What are they?

Click to expand...

I'd have to think long and hard about that Fredd, the list was very comprehensive. I'll get back to you.

Freddd said:

I have been working closely, from the beginning, with some people in the "wired and tired" (Thanks to Dannybex) characteristic. I am seeing some patterns and need some more information. I have reached an hypotheisis that I need to confirm or not as best as possible.

Also, is anxiety a present? Is it aggravated by the following supplements or others?

For those with huge response to mb12, adb12, methylfolate, l-carnitine fumarate (or other carnitine) and having done or attempted a titration of any size onto these items.

Also, if the person has tried any benzos, their responses and also if they had anything like intradose withdrawal or "tolerance withdrawal" problems.
.

Click to expand...

Ive posted on another thread in response to what you've been asking so hopefully you will see that.

With "wired but tired" I dont nowdays get it often and nowdays it dont last long and anxiety doesnt tend to come in with it.

In the past when I had wired and tired more and had it far longer, I did have major anxiety issues all the time back then and the wired and tired did probably made my anxiety issues worst.

Ive never had anxiety worsened by supplements (thou have had some hellish mood issues other then anxiety manifest on some meds).

Fredd.. do you know what deficiency may cause someone to loose feeling on back of hands but have good feeling everywhere else eg good on the palms etc.? Im currently trying to work out what is going on for me.

Hi Fredd

I'm not sure if I'd be any help to you as I haven't followed any of the methylation protocols nor tried benzodiazepines.

I am interested in what you come up with though.

I definitely fall into the tired and wired category but have also have had lifelong anxiety issues (greatly exacerbated after ME onset) and a form of OCD which is also linked to anxiety.

There was a recent thread where someone asked what you would do if you got your life back which reminded me that even without the current physical symptoms I still wouldn't be back to what I'd consider 'normal'.

I've recently been considering trying Baclofen - a GABA agonist having - heard that it has helped alcoholics to break the addiction. Many, if not most alcoholics drink due to longstanding anxiety and apparently Baclofen not only stopped them enjoying alcohol and lessened any withdrawal symptoms but many also report the disappearance of lifelong anxiety as a welcome 'side effect'.

A recent Cochrane review reports only one clinical trial that met their quality criteria but it did report success (in treating alcohol withdrawal symptoms) and the review recommended larger scale replication studies.

I'd be curious if the GABA/glutamate balance plays any part in your thinking and am happy to fill in your spreadsheet if you think it might help.

taniaaust1 said:

Ive posted on another thread in response to what you've been asking so hopefully you will see that.

With "wired but tired" I dont nowdays get it often and nowdays it dont last long and anxiety doesnt tend to come in with it.

In the past when I had wired and tired more and had it far longer, I did have major anxiety issues all the time back then and the wired and tired did probably made my anxiety issues worst.

Ive never had anxiety worsened by supplements (thou have had some hellish mood issues other then anxiety manifest on some meds).

Fredd.. do you know what deficiency may cause someone to loose feeling on back of hands but have good feeling everywhere else eg good on the palms etc.? Im currently trying to work out what is going on for me.

Click to expand...

Hi Taniaaust1,

I'm posting the latest on this aspect of wired and tired. As far as lack of feelings on back of hands I can't say with any specificity if that relates to a deficiency. It could and just be were the demyelination lesions are affecting the specific nerves from these combined b12 deficiencies. After you titrate to body saturation with mb12 and adb212, then when you try the 50mg singloe dose trial if it affects your numb areas on your hands you will know.

HYPERSENSITIVITY IDENTIFIED

As I have been saying there are 4 specific b12 and cofactor deficiencies. I have pinned down one of them that hadnt been identified before as a separate thing.

This specific pattern, of neurological mitochondria shutdown, has some specific characteristics. There is an extreme hypersensitivity to adenosylb12 and/or l-carnitine fumarate and sometimes methylfolate if the person converts to adb12 well enough. The first one in may have no effect or may be hyper responsive. The second one taken often causes a huge response. So, in one case, l-carnitine fumarate, perhaps 50mg, as first taken, has no effect. A week later after that was out of the system, adenosylb12 was taken and had no effect and was established. After a few day of adenosylb12 the response to < 1mg of l-Carnitine fumarate is out of this world intense. After that an increase in methylb12 is also extreme, but not the nominal 500mcg already established as that is rolled into the l-carnitine response. So we see the dependence of the nerves on adb12-LCF activating the mitochondria in order to have a response to mb12. The specific mix of these responses depends on the person being extremely deficient of all 3 items in the CNS. The person however didnt have the symptoms of stalled methylation that one often sees in the epithelial tissues of the body. Body does not have much in the way of symptoms compared to the neurological and neuro-psyc. It is mostly neurological.

The mood characteristics show a great deal of anxiety as a base condition. Sudden emotional changes or storms, can look bipolar. Sudden rage, panic attacks etc all are very much worsened by adb12, mb12, LCF once the mutual dependencies are no longer blocking each other. Often risk sports or pseudo risk entertainments, roller coasters, bungee jumping, parachute jumping, fast boats, fast cars, fast anything are too much and too scary. OCD or elements of it may be present. These have to do typically with neural dopamine processing. These symptoms, as well as others including certain neuromuscular, may be present or caused or worsened by benzo usage, especially in those who are experiencing what is commonly called tolerance withdrawal which appears to be more a late or slow onset side effect. There are a lot more characteristics to really pin it down. However, those just clarify how it manifests. Low dopamine symptoms have to appear for Parkinsons to be diagnosed. Recent research has shown that Parkinsons has low CSF cobalamin, elevated CSF MMA and hypothesis that 20 years or more of damage from mal or non functioning neural mitochondria causes Parkinsons and here we have damaged neurons from low adb12-LCF and the beginning of the emotional/personality characteristics often found in Parkinsons (or some forms of Parkinsons) from these damaged neurons. The question comes down to:
HOW SOON BEFORE PARKINSONS DIAGNOSIS CAN CORRECTING THE DEFICIENCIES CORRECT THE DAMAGE AND/OR PREVENT MORE DAMAGE?

Most of these neuro-psyc symptoms appear to be linked to limbic system damage. The hypothesis is that 20 years or more of neurological damage from non-functioning neuro-mitochondria with low CSF cobalamin and elevated CSF MMA (non-functioning mitochondria by virtue of CSF adenosylb12/l-carnitine-fumarate deficiency as indicated by elevated CSF MMA) which has these symptoms is Parkinsons disease. Furthermore, Parkinsons disease is associated with limbic system damage.

It is these extreme deficiencies that appear to damage the neurons and causes the extreme hyper responsiveness. A micro titration of mb12, adb12 and l-carnitine fumarate can build the levels up, eventually to levels that according to the Japanese studies, up-regulates neurological healing. As the damaged neurons are reactivated they are extremely irritable and there is an increase in symptoms. Tapering the benzos may be helpful for turning down the secondary low dopamine symptoms. The benzos can cause a change in the dopamine receptors which appears to cause these Parkinsons type symptoms when a person has the adb12/carnitine deficiency damaged neurons.
This one subgroup, with hypersensitivity to at least adenosylb12 and/or l
carnitine fumarate and possibly mb12, with lots of anxiety, possibly with emotional outbursts, possible instant rage or killing rage, OCD or OCD like, doesn't get a thrill from thrilling activities, fear instead. Then adb12, mb12 or l-carnitine fumarate can, in tiny quantities trigger any or all in succession of the emotional responses. Also, benzos are frequently prescribed for the deficiency symptoms, and when the dose is large enough, it has an effect on the dopamine receptors causing the above emotional responses which are mostly part of the "Parkinson's personality" and in benzo-board lingo is "tolerance withdrawal" rather than "late onset side effects". Tolerance withdrawal is a far scarier term than "side effects". This deficiency appears to damage the limbic system. Then, when the neurons that are now hypersensitive are exposed to anything that starts them producing ATP and transmitting signals they have painfully intense responses, just as different damage can produce intense pain or bodywide pain sensitivity. When looking up the limbic system the disease mentioned that is at least in part caused by damage to the limbic system specifically is Parkinson's.

It appears that the damage appears to keep increasing for years and years until it becomes PARKINSONS, ALS, MS, SUPRA NUCLEAR PALSY and ALZHEIMERS, probably depending upon the exact mix of deficiencies, the exact neurological areas damaged or other factors. Until methylb12, adenosylb12 and l-carnitine fumarate are all brought up to the level that prevents further damage and then to a level that can heal the damage if possible, it is likely that the damage just keeps on going.

This specific aspect is not a methylation problem but that may also be a cofactor. This can be limited to the brain and cord with little or no body involvement. Hydroxycbl does not replace the adnenosylb12 but some people can convert the methylb12 to adenosylb12 to some extent. Further the double or triple deficiency with the l-carnitine fumarate and mb12 assures that no single substance can repair this. It HAS to be a complicated (many substances) protocol with careful titration.

If a person is going to heal from this, assuming that is even possible, its only going to happen with the Active B12 Protocol. That a person can take hydroxcbl for years and it never touches it should be ample demonstration that it doesnt work as it is easily demonstrated that adb12, mb12 and l-carnitine fumarate plus cofactors starts working in minutes to hours. The extreme response demonstrates the extreme deficiency and resulting damage.

A few people taking this from the b12 deficiency end of things who performed some of the titrations of adb12 of injections from 1 to 25mg or so and various ratios of adb12:mb12 discovered this increase in irritability. This irritability is at the heart of the Mr. Hyde transformation in b12 deficiency (mb12 fades first and fastest) and an overbalance of adb12 to mb12 which occasionally shows up when adb12 injections are in the 10-25mg range. Is this an early Parkinsons indicator? With only 2 people doing this series and only 1 person experiencing the mood/personality change, and others having exactly the opposite effect with high oral doses of both adb12 and LCF.

Im still working out the details. I will have a micro-titration set of instructions posted shortly. And of course everybody is free to choose whatever hypothesis they want to work from.

Choosing a strategy

1 Avoiding everything that attempts to restore the neurons and mitochondria to a non-deficient state as that is too irritating and anxiety provoking. Unfortunately that appears unlikely to change the course of the disease progression.
2 Rapid titration of the obviously active and effective substances to limit the number of days that have to be endured until the neuron startup effects are over. This will allow the doses to climb towards those needed to allow the body to restore the nervous system to normality (hopefully) with the up-regulated neurological healing the Japanese research speaks of. The accepted therapy doses of l-carnitine for restoration from technical deficiency is 3,000mg IV. A daily oral dose of l-carnitine in the 1000mg range is a quite normal supplement dose. Higher doses restores normality quicker or so goes the theories and actual results with all the items shown to have dose related effects produces more rapid and/or complete healing. LOTS OF UNKNOWNS.
3 Slow titration of all the active and effective substances bringing them all into balance at each level before increasing to the next step. It may take a year to get the levels up to the usually effective healing levels which may or may not slow down healing. By slow titration the length of onset may be an entire year or more. Feathering it to get things increasing enough to give some adaptation, healing and recovery of function without making it intolerable is not always possible to do when the difference between tolerable results and intolerable may come down to a difference of 10mcg of LCF. LOTS OF UNKNOWNS,


UNKNOWNS:

1 Can the damage be reversed
2 How many years of damage can be reversed
3 Can damage be stopped from proceeding all the way to Parkinsons (MS, ALS, Alzheimers, SNP etc)
4 How to reverse the damage and prevent it from continuing.

Step right up and place your bets ladies and gentlemen, who is going to get sicker and who is going to heal? For that matter who can heal? Who hasnt yet crossed the line of no return into outright irreversible neurological disease. My experience with Subacute Combined Degeneration is that it can be partially reversed and many of the symptoms alleviated and progression very much slowed down. So in SACD some of the demyelization lesions do heal, just as they can in MS. As the limbic system becomes hyper irritable it seems reasonable to expect the same kind of lesions there and to expect them to heal in the same way requiring the same cofactors. We are all in the same boat much more so than many think. We just each are sitting by a different set of leaks.