Now ive got a terribly sore throat - another sign of immune system reactivation?

So 12 days into the methylation protocol, and now i have a sore throat. A VERY sore throat. It feels as if its been burnt by chemicals or something - which it hasn't.
What could it be? It doesnt feel like a standard sore throat to me.

This is the first illness i have had, other than ME, since i got ME a little over three years ago. This has come quick on the heels of my tooth infection starting about a week ago and an infection in my finger which is now fixed (by my immune system) which is nice.

So, im totally convinced that there has been an immune change, likley because of starting the methylation protocol. So this is all good news - probably.

My concern is whether or not my immune system has the strength to deal with these challenges. My tooth infection is still very bad and im almost out of antibiotics, so I wonder if my immune system isnt strong enough to sort it, even with the antibiotics.

Has anyone else been through a similar experience? Will my immune system cope? Any advice?

Yes, snowathlete, this happened to me, too. I don't know how many weeks in; I would have to check my medical diary. I started Rich's protocol about three months ago. Anyway, my guess about the sore throat was that it was candida. I had had, before the sore throat, sore tongue in the back, first on one side and the other. The soreness on the right spread up into my throat, and, also, one night I woke up with that soreness up into my nasal cavity. I treated the soreness with direct application of baking soda or baking soda solution, gargled. Online I read about other treatment for thrush. Peroxide was one. I can't remember others.

I have not had sore throat or tongue for a few weeks. I have had sore gums again, this week, after using the Jarrow brand methyl B-12 tabs. I discussed that on another thread, one someone started about tooth pain. Maybe that was you.

Other changes I noticed in the first weeks of the treatment, were almost constant chills but not shaking chills, tolerable. The first month I felt melancholy, not debilitating, but, rather, interesting shift in mood. The melancholy went away after a few weeks, and the chills are less frequent now.

I did notice improvement of cognitive dysfunction and energy level within the first week. Since I started the treatment, I have suffered from fluey symptoms much less frequently. I've been able to cook more and run errands more easily. The change is not dramatic, but the improvement has lasted these three months, and I am grateful. Thanks, Rich, and others who have contributed their ideas.

Best of luck to you, snowathlete. I'd be glad to compare notes anytime, on the forums or in PMs.

my guess about the sore throat was that it was candida.

Click to expand...

Thats interesting Merry. That might even be a side effect of the antibiotics in my case. I'll try the baking soda.

Other changes I noticed in the first weeks of the treatment, were almost constant chills but not shaking chills, tolerable.

Click to expand...

Thats interesting too. I have the opposite at the moment, i now feel warm, even when my wife says the house is cold, which is the complete oposite of my experience with ME. Usually i am freezing cold!

I kind of figure any change is good, given how ill i've been, so im optomistic. Even a small improvement is significant in terms of the impact on quality of life. Thanks for replying Merry, its good to know im not alone in my experience.

You are welcome. Take care.

do please keep posting snowathlete - I have recently started the protocol and my unpleasant levels of facial and dental pain have returned, and yesterday the lymph node on the left side of my throat has swollen up, and that's contributing to the pain. My dentist wants to root fill and crown the three remaining untreated teeth in my mouth. I've just had a years worth of expensive and painful dental treatment, I cant face it. For the pain I am taking the Fatigued to Fantastic End Pain Now supplement and have just started on curcumin. I am also taking some immune stimulatory stuff like thymic protein A, who knows if that's the right thing or not. The identification on PR is priceless - at least I know someone else is finding their way through the same maze.

you know sore throats can be associated with dental infections?

I gargled some baking powder last night and this morning my throat is a little better. I dont know if it was due to the baking powder or not, but it could be. I will try some more soon and see how it goes.

Thanks for the tips.

I am not confident that your sore throat, which you describe as terribly sore, is that same problem as mine and can be alleviated with baking soda. Even if it is candida, the infection may be so severe that you would need a prescription anti-fungal. I don't want to lead you astray with home remedies.

I am not confident that your sore throat, which you describe as terribly sore, is that same problem as mine and can be alleviated with baking soda. Even if it is candida, the infection may be so severe that you would need a prescription anti-fungal. I don't want to lead you astray with home remedies.

Click to expand...

Who knows. But it does feel a bit better today so hopefully its the baking soda, but if not that then presumably my immune system is getting on top of it. If it doesnt get better by mid week then i will go to the doctor. I'd certainly like to be rid of it for Christmas.

sianrecovery said:

do please keep posting snowathlete - I have recently started the protocol and my unpleasant levels of facial and dental pain have returned, and yesterday the lymph node on the left side of my throat has swollen up, and that's contributing to the pain. My dentist wants to root fill and crown the three remaining untreated teeth in my mouth. I've just had a years worth of expensive and painful dental treatment, I cant face it. For the pain I am taking the Fatigued to Fantastic End Pain Now supplement and have just started on curcumin. I am also taking some immune stimulatory stuff like thymic protein A, who knows if that's the right thing or not. The identification on PR is priceless - at least I know someone else is finding their way through the same maze.

Click to expand...

That's probably the effect of sublingual B12 on the nerves of the jaw. There was a thread about this B12 side effect.

The sore throat has now become a full blown cold!

HORRAY! Its not my imagination, my immune system really IS responding!!

Try 5-6 drops a day of Lugol's Iodine (5%). Great stuff. Helps with healing and immune function.

You said in your first post that you had a tooth infection. Has that been resolved? From the info you have given, your sore throat came on the heels of this tooth infection, and coincidently after starting methylation treatment. Any infection in the teeth is swallowed, and after has the ability to go to the gut and from there, if leaky gut were to be a problem, which is for most of us, then disseminate from there. And the cold is a systemic reaction to the tooth infection. Addtionally, any infection in the mouth, can also invade the sinuses and ears depending on your anatomical variations if any should exist and mimic a cold as well.

Bacteria in the mouth causing tooth infection are usually gram negative, and baking soda may provide relief in that the chemical properties of baking soda mimic some of the mouth bacterias waste products of respiration. So basically, baking soda use is like having the bacteria live in their own waste. Nothing and nobody wants to live in their own waste.

Take care of the tooth infection, and then your observations about methylation may change. Another thing about bringing up the methylation cycle... By doing so, you may enable your body to respond to latent infections,and in doing so, your body could become overwhelmed by the response, as a direct result of the infection or the effects of the infection...cytokine induction, etc. So if your cold becomes ongoing and lasts for more than a few days, then it isn't a cold.

LaurieL

I wonder if this commonly experienced "reaction" to the methyation treatment is a shift from Th2 dominance to Th1 as glutathione levels come up. Lack of glutathione can lead to Th2 dominance, which is commonly observed in CFS/ME patients.

I'm no expert but hope this helps.
Methylation treatment causes detox which in turn leads to the excretion of metals, virus, & bacteria and therefore, its very common to have dental abscesses, rashes, sore throats, chills, & a whole host of problems. Your immune system is activated to fight the invaders & these are merely symptoms of that rather than infections. At least, most of the time. I went through this with my daughter so am well versed in the outcomes. We used BetaMax capsules thru Chisolm Labs because they help the immune system work more effectively in order to reduce the misery of detox. I love BetaMax! It made a difference for sure. They are changing their company name but I have no idea what that would be so hopefully you can search under Chisolm Labs to get their number. Strangely, in this day & age, They don't have a website! It wasn't $ but I can't recall the price--maybe $30 or something?

However, I don't like the prices of their immune factors but wish I could use them for her & myself but they aree way out of our range. Many naturopaths will encourage raw food diets & healthier liquids to get through the detox process and antibiotics do not seem to work. There is a neat discussion of this by a rather eccentric naturopath on you tube that may be helpful to you. I found him a while back under searches for detox, he's a older fellow with white bushy hair & a mustache & is a chemist but speaks very plainly. I think it would make much more sense to you & hope it's still easy to find.

Good luck to you in this process, it's horrible at times but from my own experience with my daughter, it's paid off.
Angela

You said in your first post that you had a tooth infection. Has that been resolved? From the info you have given, your sore throat came on the heels of this tooth infection, and coincidently after starting methylation treatment.

Yes i had the tooth out and some antibiotics. First, i had amoxicilin which did nothing. I was then given Methadoxine (or something like that) and it worked very quickly. I was told that this antibiotic is better on anerobic bacteria. The sore throat turned out to be the start of a cold, and my daughter and wife had it too. I dont think there was a link bettween the two.

I dont think it was a detox reaction either, ive had them before when i started another protocol a few months back and the symptoms were very different.

It could be a coincidence that this all happened when i started the methylation, but i think its more likely to be a result of it. Personally, having experienced it, it seems to have been very closely linked and so my opinion at the moment is that my immune system changed as a result of the methylation treatment and led to these infections.

Thankfully, i am now over these problems, so we will have to wait and see if i get anything else or not. If the methylation protocol is indeed causing a change in my immune system and causing it to work against infections, then i should catch a cold again at some point in the not too distant future.

snowathlete said:

So 12 days into the methylation protocol, and now i have a sore throat. A VERY sore throat. It feels as if its been burnt by chemicals or something - which it hasn't.
What could it be? It doesnt feel like a standard sore throat to me.

This is the first illness i have had, other than ME, since i got ME a little over three years ago. This has come quick on the heels of my tooth infection starting about a week ago and an infection in my finger which is now fixed (by my immune system) which is nice.

So, im totally convinced that there has been an immune change, likley because of starting the methylation protocol. So this is all good news - probably.

My concern is whether or not my immune system has the strength to deal with these challenges. My tooth infection is still very bad and im almost out of antibiotics, so I wonder if my immune system isnt strong enough to sort it, even with the antibiotics.

Has anyone else been through a similar experience? Will my immune system cope? Any advice?

Click to expand...

Hi Snowathlete,

I went through something like that years ago. Let me give you my history. I used to have 6 streps a year on average age 0 to 23. At 23 I started taking grams of Vitamin C (Linus Pauling, "keep increasing C until you stop getting sick"). I did that. My immune system failed later again with the b12/folate deficiencies. I increased the C again and things were pretty much under control. However when I started the mb12, not only did I get very low on potassium, I also had an induced vit C deficiency and started having sore throats, swollen glands, infected folicles all over my body. I recognized the symptoms and upped the vitamin C back to 16 grams from 4 grams per day. It worked and all those infections stopped. I have some infected folicles if the cell formation is disrupted long enough by paradoxical and/or induced folate deficiency. Does that sound like it could be the situation?

Hi Snowathlete,

I went through something like that years ago. Let me give you my history. I used to have 6 streps a year on average age 0 to 23. At 23 I started taking grams of Vitamin C (Linus Pauling, "keep increasing C until you stop getting sick"). I did that. My immune system failed later again with the b12/folate deficiencies. I increased the C again and things were pretty much under control. However when I started the mb12, not only did I get very low on potassium, I also had an induced vit C deficiency and started having sore throats, swollen glands, infected folicles all over my body. I recognized the symptoms and upped the vitamin C back to 16 grams from 4 grams per day. It worked and all those infections stopped. I have some infected folicles if the cell formation is disrupted long enough by paradoxical and/or induced folate deficiency. Does that sound like it could be the situation?

Click to expand...

Hi Freddd,

When i was young, i always had what was diagnosed as tonisilitus. Over and over again. They wanted to take them out, but my parents said no.
I then got glandular fever (mono) badly and missed alot of school - i was about 14. I returned to school after improvement, then had a relapse of mono and had more time off school.
I did get well enough within a year to sail in the tall ships race at 15, and felt pretty good, so seemed to be properly recovered.

I have always caught colds and flu alot, and they tend to make me fairly ill, compared to some who get over, and deal with them, easily.
Before i got ME (probably while i had it, in the early stages) i had swollen throat for about two plus years, with lots of tonsil stones. I was going to go back for a swab to be taken but then it went away - then i got ME and went downhill over the next year or so - but havent had any other infections since. Until now that is.

So, it does sound like there are similarities bettween our cases. I read a little of your protocol, and am interested in it. Incidentally, i sent you a PM earlier today before i read this post on this topic.

I started taking vit c and some other vitamins and minerals at the start of November. I take between 2-6 grams of vit c a day at the moment depending on whether i remember to take them all. Regarding potasium, i guessed this was making me feel worse when i also started eating alot of bananas (high in potasium, if i remember correctly?) back in November, so i stopped eating them. What do you think?

I could start taking more vitamin c.

Regarding the b12/folate - i find it difficult to take all the complex info about this in, but im interested in getting it right. I started Rich's protocol in December, which seemed to lead to these changes. But i havent felt any thing else in the last week. I see these infections as a positive sign overal, but if my immune system is now turned on, i want to ensure i give it everything it needs to deal with these infections, and any new ones.

Im likely to keep on with Rich's protocol, but maybe tailor it with some changes on the B12/folate if i get my head around them. And i'm open to changing my other supps to. I'd be really greatful for your advise on that.

snowathlete said:

Hi Freddd,

When i was young, i always had what was diagnosed as tonisilitus. Over and over again. They wanted to take them out, but my parents said no.
I then got glandular fever (mono) badly and missed alot of school - i was about 14. I returned to school after improvement, then had a relapse of mono and had more time off school.
I did get well enough within a year to sail in the tall ships race at 15, and felt pretty good, so seemed to be properly recovered.

I have always caught colds and flu alot, and they tend to make me fairly ill, compared to some who get over, and deal with them, easily.
Before i got ME (probably while i had it, in the early stages) i had swollen throat for about two plus years, with lots of tonsil stones. I was going to go back for a swab to be taken but then it went away - then i got ME and went downhill over the next year or so - but havent had any other infections since. Until now that is.

So, it does sound like there are similarities bettween our cases. I read a little of your protocol, and am interested in it. Incidentally, i sent you a PM earlier today before i read this post on this topic.

I started taking vit c and some other vitamins and minerals at the start of November. I take between 2-6 grams of vit c a day at the moment depending on whether i remember to take them all. Regarding potasium, i guessed this was making me feel worse when i also started eating alot of bananas (high in potasium, if i remember correctly?) back in November, so i stopped eating them. What do you think?

I could start taking more vitamin c.

Regarding the b12/folate - i find it difficult to take all the complex info about this in, but im interested in getting it right. I started Rich's protocol in December, which seemed to lead to these changes. But i havent felt any thing else in the last week. I see these infections as a positive sign overal, but if my immune system is now turned on, i want to ensure i give it everything it needs to deal with these infections, and any new ones.

Im likely to keep on with Rich's protocol, but maybe tailor it with some changes on the B12/folate if i get my head around them. And i'm open to changing my other supps to. I'd be really greatful for your advise on that.

Click to expand...

Hi Snowathelete,

Our histories are more similar than you might think. I missed an average of 1/3 of the school year k-16. I had my toncils out at 6. Only the diagnosis changed, from chronic toncilitis to chronic streps. I didn't go out for halloween the first time until I was in 1st grade as I was sick all other years. I had multiple pneumonias. Every cold went to my lungs and parked there for a month or more.

There are several differences between Rich's simplified protocol and the active b12 protocol. For starters I don't believe that a simplified form has much probability of effectivness. If the hydroxycbl actually works with whatever folate formn is used, then it will be lurching from one induced deficiency after another. Howevwer, since hydroxcbl works so poorly compared to the real active methylb12 and adenosylb12 there is little probability that the simplified protocol will cause much of anything. Mb12 & adb12 are 100 to 10,000 times more effective than hydroxycbl. The odds are pretty decent that a person who starts the active b12 protocl and sticks with it for 1 years will be significanty healed, able to eliminate lots of the pharmaceuticals they take, cut medical costs becasue they just are not that sick any more and able to start physical rehab exercising and the next stage of healing. A person who starts the simplified protocol and sticks with it for 1 year will still be struggling to heal a year later, and 2 years later and 3 years later and wondering why it doesn't work better. The active b12 protocol causes a lot of startup symptoms, in 15 minutes after starting the very first 5 star mb12/adb12 sublingual while it is still in their mouth. It increases from there. Most persons on the hydroxycbl never experience the startup of healing. Some find startup energization intolerable and reject it. When I had 200 symptoms and crippling fatigue and the very first thing that happens is that the crippling fatigue starts lifting, even if not pleasant, I celebrated the first thing that made a real difference after spending $200,000 trying to find somethimng that would make such a difference. I stuck with it and got better despite it intensifying the perception of the many symptoms. Mb12 affects the nervous system so we become exqusitely aware of all the details, allowing us to find the other nutrients that help very clearly or scaring the socks off a person causing them to quit what can actually work. The first symptoms to go away are those very things that are stirred up the most at startup.

Well my daughter has had a cold for about a week and my wife then caught it a few days ago-she just lost her voice in fact-and I thought I was going to miss out as per usual, but this evening my throat has become sore ans swollen, my neck and shoulders ache and I'm heading for another cold.

So that confirms it my immune system now works again. It's on. I don't feel any better but I guess that might now come in time???

I'm upping my dose of vitamin c.