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Zeo sleep coach device

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Cort, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Raleigh, NC
    check this out - I just read an article in the Wall Street Journal (when sleep leaves you tired) about the ZEO - a headband with sensors in it that monitors your brain waves as you sleep. When you wake up that tells you how much time you spent in light sleep deep sleep or REM sleep. the person in the article found out she was only getting about four hours of sleep a night! You then upload the data to a website and it gives you a score and tips on how to fight your bad sleep.

    Interesting stuff. it costs about 400 bucks
  2. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

    London, UK
    Has anyone heard of the Zeo personal sleep coach? It is basically a home sleep monitor. There is a wireless headband which you wear when asleep and a base-station which gives you a readout of your sleep patterns. It tells you whether you were Awake, REM, light sleep or deep sleep (phase 3 & 4) at each point during the night. There is a SD card to record several weeks worth of data.

    They have a 30 day trial. I would purchase/trial it myself but they don't seem to ship international.

    It might be quite useful to track sleep patterns in CFS when e.g. trialling various sleep-promoting agents.

    If anyone manages to get their hands on one, do let me know!
  3. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Hi garcia - I just googled on the Zeo thing and found this rather sceptical review - but the scepticism seems to be more based on the usefulness of the sleep training programme than the validity of the readings that Zeo could make (if I've read it correctly). It got good reviews on the US Amazon site from 2 customers (it's not for sale on Amazon UK as I expect you know!).

    I also live in the UK and have successfully asked my GP for referral to a sleep clinic because of my unrefreshing sleep (please see my posting on Xyrem here (I'm message #16) in the sleep thread as to the research I referred to in order to justify it!). If you want Zeo because you want to know if you've got a sleep disorder, have you thought about asking your GP for a similar referral?

    Good luck, sleep well!
  4. Anika

    Anika Senior Member

    This sounded interesting. If it were something my husband could use some of the time too, for when he has trouble with sleep, it would be easier to justify the cost and trial. But I got the sense that you can really only analyze one user, because the analysis is done online, and seems to assume a single user for the monitor.

    So I'm not going to pursue this now, but would be interested if anyone here tries it out.
  5. HopingSince88

    HopingSince88 Senior Member

    I am interested in this device also. I have had 2 sleep studies. The first one was done about 12 or 15 years ago. I only showed stage 2 sleep. I experienced no deep sleep and no REM sleep during this study. I was dx'd with hypopnea and mild sleep apnea (not enough events to be able to get a cpap prescribed). The second study was done about 4 years ago. This time I cycled between stage 2 and REM sleep. Again I did not experience any deep sleep. Again I was dx's with hypopnea and mild sleep apnea and did not qualify for cpap.

    My concern about sleep studies is that they've got you so wired up with little sticky patches all over your head, face, torso and legs, that you don't get your normal night's sleep. I am pretty sure that once I was wired up that it took me 3x longer to get to sleep than at home. Also, I am pretty sure I did not flop onto my back, as I did not experience any major apnea events, the way I do at home. I think all the wiring can prevent you from sleeping in a manner that is reflective of what actually happens at home.

    I guess the thing I like about the Zeo is that it appears to be more comfortable and less restrictive, and might give me a more accurate assessment of my sleep.

    However, unless a doctor recognizes its usefulness in a diagnosis, this is another expense that is difficult to justify.

  6. muffin

    muffin Senior Member

    According to my internist, he has a patient who must take sleep meds but needs to take them at certain points in the night when he is most "awake" and this device has helped in that area. As for me, my two sleep-studies showed "Idiopathic Narcoleptic Sleep Disorder" - meaning they have NO clue why I do NOT go into the deeper stages of sleep at all and went into REM during the daytime part of the test within 11 minutes (under 5 minutes is narcolepsy, if I recall). They made me take extra sleep meds so that I got the 8 hours they needed for the study but my brain had an "explosion" (like a bomb going off in my brain) and I jolted up from the bed, the staff came running, and the next 45 minutes were spent messing with the equipment and taking off/putting back on all those smelly electrodes since my computer went off line. I TOLD them my brain explosion threw the computer off line but the staff (just people watching people sleep, not experts) dismissed this. My internist saw the results and noted the 45 minute gap, but he also noted that every event I had also corresponded to an increase in heart rate - each and every time. Apparently at Georgetown University Sleep Study the folks there too have noted that some of us have "wake up events" that correspond with increased heart rates - and inappropriate adrenaline increases as well.

    I did think about getting this device to see what was going on with my miserable brain and also my poor husband's now miserable brain. Last night he got one hour of sleep and maybe this device might give some sort of insight - but I have NOT bought it since I can't think of how I would use the data gleaned from it to help my husband or myself. We both are on a bunch of sleep/anti-seizure meds and I don't know what more can be done to fix our very damaged sleep patterns. I and my husband both frequently get up throughout the night, wide-awake, and use the computer (me) or watch TV (him) until we are tired again and go back to bed.

    So, if anyone has an idea of how CFIDS/ME people would get some sort of valid use and data out of this thing, I would be most interested. Cheers -
  7. spit

    spit Senior Member

    This is very strange. Are you outside of the US? I've got a relative with narcolepsy with cataplexy, and it's a prime suspect for me as well, so I've spent a lot of time looking into it. I've never heard of "Idiopathic Narcoleptic Sleep Disorder" -- there's idiopathic hypersomnia, and there's narcolepsy. If you go into REM at any point in two or more naps during the MSLT, you fulfill the sleep study diagnostic criteria for narcolepsy. Falling asleep in under 5 minutes is a diagnostic marker for idiopathic hypersomnia and narcolepsy, they're mainly separated in practice by the presence or absence of REM.

    I don't mean to sound overly critical, I've just honestly never heard of this. Any REM in any two of the 20 minute naps is considered a positive finding, indicative of narcolepsy. Most narcoleptics also have severe nighttime sleep disturbances, and don't get nearly enough deep sleep. I'm not really sure why they didn't just consider diagnosing you that way, though of course it depends on your other symptoms, etc.

    With the Zeo, I could see it being helpful to see if your sleep medications etc. are actually succeeding not just in increasing your sleep time, but in improving your sleep structure as well. I can use supplements to increase my sleep time substantially, but I have serious doubts that they're helping me actually get more deep sleep. And maybe to see if there are patterns over time that effect daytime function or can be linked to any particular behavior or whatever. Whether that's worth the money depends on your point of view.
  8. muffin

    muffin Senior Member

    Thank you for taking an interest in my story of Idiopathic Narcoleptic Sleep Disorder

    "I don't mean to sound overly critical, I've just honestly never heard of this. Any REM in any two of the 20 minute naps is considered a positive finding, indicative of narcolepsy. Most narcoleptics also have severe nighttime sleep disturbances, and don't get nearly enough deep sleep. I'm not really sure why they didn't just consider diagnosing you that way, though of course it depends on your other symptoms, etc."
    No, this is NOT critical and you make points that I need to ask. I live in the US and had both sleep studies in the Washington DC area. I was told by the neurologist that I had to go into REM during my daytime sleep within 5 minutes and NOT my 11 minutes. I was out cold in each of the five times they commanded me to get in bed and go to sleep. I was so tired that I could not stay awake during the "awake" times during the daytime sleep study - and kept falling asleep in the chair away from the cameras.

    I don't do the couple second or few minutes narcoleptic "black out". Instead, I KNOW when I am going to go down with about a 10 or so minute warning to get down (into a bed, couch, etc) and OFF the road if I am driving (seldom). And then I sleep out cold from one to three hours and I can NOT be woken up during the day. My husband has tried lifting me up and moving me out of the bed and I am still very much "asleep" and can not wake up. Now my nighttime sleep is still terrible even with meds. I wake up all night long, and get up every two or three hours with dry mouth and the need to take my Ultracet. So night time sleep is horrible but far better than when first sick with CFIDS.

    I think the neurologist did not know what to think and I told that to my Internist. My internist agreed that the nerurologist did not know what he was seeing either. But this is CFIDS and these neurologist are just NOT involved in sleep disorder caused or involved with CFIDS. And I think that the neurologists should have been leading the charge in research on many aspects of CFIDS - but they have not.

    So I don't know why I got this IDIOPATHIC Narcoleptic-like sleep disorder - I believe for lack of a real diagnosis. I just don't know and neither did my internist (a very smart doctor). The odd, very dangerous inability to stay awake and sitting up during the daytime "fugues" is most dangerous and what concerns me most. I babysat my niece years ago and the "fugue" hit me and no one was around or able to be gotten to to come and stay with her while I passed out. I was out of my mind scared and dressed her up in coat and hat, made a pitch black pot of coffee and dumped a ton of sugar and creamer into the coffee pot (not a cup but the pot itself with about 10 cups of pitch black coffee) and ran her and me outside and got her to run in the cold while I walked around and did NOT go near the chairs or even lean up against a tree or swing set because I knew I would fall asleep standing up. That was the last time I babysat her. I was terrified for her and by the grace of God, somehow I stayed awake and didn't drop to the ground. My daytime fugues (it isn't sleep, I don't know what it would be called) have caused me to sleep anywhere and everywhere.

    Anyway, thank you for taking an interest in my bogus diagnosis. I really wish that our detractors could see this uncontrolled pass-out as it is very scary and stimulants of any sort (including 10 cups of black coffee or Concerta/Provigil/etc) have NO affect on me at all. In fact, they make me sleep more.

    Again, thank you.
  9. spit

    spit Senior Member

    muffin -- thanks for taking my skepticism as intended. Honestly, it sounds to me like it's worth asking about in much greater detail. Is there a way you can talk to an actual sleep doctor? Preferably one who knows something about sleep disorders other than apnea? Because I'd be shocked if they weren't kind of horrified by your neurologist's approach to this, and they might have some greater insight.

    Obviously, there could be lots of different things going on here, but what you describe is completely consistent with narcolepsy, symptom-wise; some of 'em are weird, your "fugues" sound totally in line with it, and the sleepiness is overwhelming but can often be fought off for a while, though with increasing difficulty. Deep sleep is lowered or missing very often. Having REM within 11 minutes is highly abnormal unless you've got severe sleep deprivation. It's IMO probably worth a much better look than they gave it.

    Not that the treatment options are great for narcolepsy, either, mind you -- basically symptom management. :-/

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