1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Can You Come for a Visit? My ME/CFS Says No
My daughter and son-in-law just had a baby last week. We are thrilled. But we won't be able to see the baby or hold her any time soon. We won't be able to take over little gifts or help out with housework or babysitting.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

XMRV "ubiquitous"

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Levi, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. Levi

    Levi Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes:
    27
    Regarding the conspiracy theories vis-a-vis the CDC NIH and XMRV. Why not intentionally undermine all research into XMRV with zero/zero studies, etc., until the pathogen spreads into the population so far that it becomes "ubiquitous". Once it is found everywhere, there will be no way to tie it to CFS/ME. Problem solved.

    Of course we really have no idea just how fast the microbe is spreading into the general population at all, do we? If the CDC were really doing its job, they would be tracking XMRV levels and penetration into the general population. Not waiting to see what diseases are proven to be connected with it. The fact that they are doing zero/zero studies is a good indication they are trying to stifle further research, since those studies are worthless to epidemiologists.
  2. V99

    V99 *****

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes:
    1
    UK
    Yes, and by not inviting Mikovits to talk at the 1st International XMRV conference, they further hinder the exchange of information, and allow the xmrv to spread unchecked.
  3. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    146
    I can see the powers that be getting thier way again and this being suppressed. Its all going thier way so far, we can keep saying things will change but the fact is, things arnt changing. Nearly a year and the only promising new information has been stopped from coming out? Its not looking good and the longer they draw this out its getting harder and harder to see otherwise. Im fed up with waiting. Is there anything we can do?
  4. Forbin

    Forbin Forbin

    Messages:
    249
    Likes:
    245
    If you assume that XRMV is in 3.7% of the "healthy" US population and that there are 1 million actual CFS cases in the US (is there a better number for this?), that would mean that roughly 8% of those infected with XMRV are currently ill. If you wait until XMRV is "ubiquitous" in a population of 300+ million, you'd have more than 24 millon people ill in the US alone. This doesn't seem like an effective way to "bury" the problem.
  5. V99

    V99 *****

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes:
    1
    UK
    Yes, we make a big fuss. We shout and scream and bombard them with letters, emails, videos. We contact the media and the government, we keep going until everybody knows about it. Even if some don't listen or care, enough will eventually to force them to do something. There are supposedly millions of us, and it will only take a fraction of that number to truly be heard. We can fight this, in fact we are fighting this. This is our year to break away. Do everything you can, it will happen.
  6. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes:
    4,882
    Sth Australia
    More than that figure.. you didnt include those who have it and who are dying of agressive prostate cancer.
  7. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes:
    4,882
    Sth Australia
    Ohhh that is crazy.. I didnt know about that till now.
  8. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes:
    1,961
    I agree, that is not good.
  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,178
    Likes:
    11,233
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi Levi,

    I recently did some scary math that I hope to work on for my next email/letter campaign. Depending on the assumptions about cost and transmissability, every years delay in treatment could add (worst not likely case) $160,000,000,000 to the total cost of treating XMRV. This was for Australia only - for the USA multiply by 15! This figure is far more likely to go up rather than down as we learn more, but I stress it is strictly worst case.

    This math needs a lot more work, especially the probable case which is two orders of magnitude lower in cost. What really scares me is that the cost of treating XMRV might be so large that the world can't afford it, even under probable case assumptions. They might decide to mass vaccinate the rest of the population and do very little to help the infected.

    Bye
    Alex

  10. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

    Messages:
    957
    Likes:
    414
    Brisbane, Aust
    I am not sure mathmatics is the answer. I told someone with a new baby that I didn't go in much for personal contact because I was worried about transmission of XMRV. Genuinely surpirsed, she laughed out loud and said she was more concerned about the baby catching whooping cough, which was going around. I almost wept in frustration. If people aren't afraid of getting tired, they are not going to worry much about XMRV.

    People really need to fear XMRV. Then it doesn't matter how many are going to get it. Fear will do all the work for us. Also I am not worried about any stigma associated with XMRV, after virtually being a social outcast with ME for decades.
  11. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,178
    Likes:
    11,233
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi Rusty,

    Getting people interest is about communication, concern and fear. Getting governments interested is in part about $$$$$$. Bye, Alex.
  12. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,254
    Likes:
    5,430
    It's possible that XMRV is already fairly ubiquitous, and that it's a retrovirus that people can often fully recover from (some of the early virology could indicate that XMRV should be vulnerable to our immune system).

    It could then be a perpetuating factor with CFS: if your immune system was under strain when it should have been fighting off XMRV, this allows XMRV to spread/whatever, and become a chronic problem.

    Something like that would help explain away some of the problems with the XMRV=CFS theory.

    There's no way that there's an intentional plan to spread a retro-virus throughout the human poulation though.
  13. V99

    V99 *****

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes:
    1
    UK
    The data so far shows XMRV to not be ubiquitous.
  14. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,254
    Likes:
    5,430
    Yeah - but if healthy people are able to clear the infection, we don't know if any past infection could be detected by the current tests. Indeed, the current testing still seems at an early stage.

    I'm not saying this is a likely theory at the moment, and we've got no evidence that people can clear an infection, but I just mentioned it as a possibilty that interests me.
  15. V99

    V99 *****

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes:
    1
    UK
    3% to 7% is not ubiquitous.
  16. Levi

    Levi Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes:
    27
    You find the 3-7% percentage only in two studies; WPI Science article and the German study of respiratory secretions. All other studies are 0 percent or about .1 percent as surmised in the latest CDC study. There is a big difference between .1 % and 7%. 7000 percent variability. If you apply a 7000 percent margin of error to say, a 3 percent infection ratio, then at the upper end of the scale you have a 210 percent likelihood of infection in the general population. Literally all people everywhere and for all time infected with XMRV. At that point XMRV is part of our DNA as a species, and no longer an issue.

  17. V99

    V99 *****

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes:
    1
    UK
    Yes, and those studies would also support the idea that XMRV is not ubiquitous at this time.
  18. Levi

    Levi Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes:
    27
    I would submit that once you have diluted the available data to a margin of error in the neighborhood of 7000 percent, then you have muddied the waters to the vanishing point, and no particular study supports any valid conclusion at all. Which is why the psych lobby has peppered XMRV research with zero/zero studies. I think that is what they are up to, and I think it is deliberate.


  19. V99

    V99 *****

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes:
    1
    UK
    So very true
  20. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,384
    Likes:
    185
    Clay, Alabama
    My intuition tells me it is at 10% or more. And while others may not trust my intuition, rarely has it failed me.

    But another theory I have is that XMRV is not the only stealthy retrovirus causing havoc. If XMRV is 3-7%, then I would expect some other retroviruses, yet to be discovered, have infected many other people causing cancers and neurological conditions.

    Tina

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page