1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Hunting down the cause of ME/CFS & other challenging disorders - Lipkin in London
In a talk to patients in London on 3rd September, Dr. W. Ian Lipkin described the extraordinary lengths he and his team are prepared to go to in order to track down the source of an illness, with examples ranging from autism to the strange case of Kawasaki disease.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

XMRV caused by vaccines? or CREATED By?

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by judderwocky, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. judderwocky

    judderwocky Senior Member


    I've been reading up on these retroviruses... they can swap information if they coinfect a cell... in fact thats how labs swap pieces of these viruses around in labs.... so basically if you have a whole bunch of retroviruses being mushed around they share bits and pieces and who knows what you're gonna get

    I read that there have been issues in zoos even where endogenous retroviruses from one species infected those at another

    fun times
    Endogenous retroviruses as potential hazards for vaccines.

    Miyazawa T.

    Laboratory of Signal Transduction, Department of Cell Biology, Institute for Virus Research, Kyoto University, 53 Shogoin-Kawaracho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8507, Japan. takavet@gmail.com

    Retroviruses are classified as exogenous or endogenous according to their mode of transmission. Generally, endogenous retroviruses (ERVs) are not pathogenic in their original hosts; however, some ERVs induce diseases. In humans, a novel gammaretrovirus was discovered in patients with prostate cancer or chronic fatigue syndrome. This virus was closely related to xenotropic murine leukemia virus (X-MLV) and designated as xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus (XMRV). The origin and transmission route of XMRV are still unknown at present; however, XMRV may be derived from ERVs of rodents because X-MLVs are ERVs of inbred and wild mice. Many live attenuated vaccines for animals are manufactured by using cell lines from animals, which are known to produce infectious ERVs; however, the risks of infection by ERVs from xenospecies through vaccination have been ignored. This brief review gives an overview of ERVs in cats, the potential risks of ERV infection by vaccination, the biological characteristics of RD-114 virus (a feline ERV), which possibly contaminates vaccines for companion animals, and the methods for detection of infectious RD-114 virus. 2010 The International Association for Biologicals. Published by Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

    Transspecies Transmission of the Endogenous Koala Retrovirus
    Uwe Fiebig,1 Manuel Garcia Hartmann,2 Norbert Bannert,1 Reinhard Kurth,1 and Joachim Denner1*
    Robert Koch Institute, 13353 Berlin,1 and Zoo Duisburg, 47058 Duisburg,2 Germany
    Received 16 December 2005/Accepted 8 March 2006

    The koala retrovirus (KoRV) is a gammaretrovirus closely related to the gibbon ape leukemia virus and
    induces leukemias and immune deficiencies associated with opportunistic infections, such as chlamydiosis.
    Here we characterize a KoRV newly isolated from an animal in a German zoo and show infection of human and
    rat cell lines in vitro and of rats in vivo, using immunological and PCR methods for virus detection. The KoRV
    transmembrane envelope protein (p15E) was cloned and expressed, and p15E-specific neutralizing antibodies
    able to prevent virus infection in vitro were developed. Finally, evidence for immunosuppressive properties of
    the KoRV was obtained.

    Virology. 2010 Jul 6. [Epub ahead of print]
    The complete genome and genetic characteristics of SRV-4 isolated from cynomolgus monkeys (Macaca fascicularis).

    Zao CL, Armstrong K, Tomanek L, Cooke A, Berger R, Estep JS, Marx PA, Trask JS, Smith DG, Yee JL, Lerche NW.

    VRL Laboratories, San Antonio, TX 78229, USA.

    At least 5 serotypes of exogenous simian retrovirus type D (SRV/D) have been found in nonhuman primates, but only SRV-1, 2 and 3 have been completely sequenced. SRV-4 was recovered once from cynomolgus macaques in California in 1984, but its genome sequences are unknown. Here we report the second identification of SRV-4 and its complete genome from infected cynomolgus macaques with Indochinese and Indonesian/Indochinese mixed ancestry. Phylogenetic analysis demonstrated that SRV-4 was distantly related to SRV-1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7. SRV/D-T, a new SRV/D recovered in 2005 from cynomolgus monkeys at Tsukuba Primate Center in Japan, clustered with the SRV-4 isolates from California and Texas and was shown to be another occurrence of SRV-4 infection. The repeated occurrence of SRV-4 in cynomolgus monkeys in different areas of the world and across 25years suggests that this species is the natural host of SRV-4. Copyright 2010 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

    Soooo..... what animal parts do we use in human vaccines????

    Isn't this the CDC's territory?
  2. jewel

    jewel Senior Member

    Interesting and scary question. I think someone posted here (or maybe I read elsewhere) about porcine virus transmissable with transplantation (e.g., heart valves). Thanks for posting.
  3. Karin


    There are only very few cell lines approved for vaccines, precisely for safety reason. In the US, two of them are human diploid cells from aborted foetus lungs, WI-38 and MRC5. Another one is the Vero cell line, from green monkey kidneys. Also, chicken eggs. I think it is the same in Europe. It is different in Asia.

    HOWEVER, this was not always the case. In the 50's, when polio and smallpox vaccines were developed, just about ANYTHING was used: monkeys, mice, rats, rabbits, whatever. Live virus vaccine developement consisted in infecting tissues with a virus, pureeing in a blender, infecting other tissues with the mixture, and so on, then finally injecting this in human guinea pigs, usually prison inmates or disabled children in nursing homes, and of course, people from colonial Africa who were 'volunteered'. Scientists did not even know that retroviruses existed back then. When they discovered the SIV, in the 60's, is when they realized the potential for problems and implemented safety measures.

    In my opinion, XMRV might possibly have originated back then, though there are other possibilities of course.

    HIV for instance, as demonstrated in 'The River' by Edward Hooper, originated from polio vaccine development in the 50's in Africa, using chimp kidneys, though of course this is denied, but if you read the book it is as obvious as a nose in the middle of a face. The above about vaccine developement in the 50's also comes from 'The River'.
  4. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

    Interesting post Karin, thx for sharing. Thinking those scary retroviruses were probably men made (accidentaly but still...) is extremely disturbing to say the least...
  5. judderwocky

    judderwocky Senior Member

    That is PRECISELY what I was thinking....i saw that documentary and thought of it when i was reading this... also the one article mentioned vaccines for cats that had live XMRV similar viruses... they mentioned they infected rats, and humans with this line ... so my question is... what prevents it from jumping to to the cat and then to humans???? what if it was the cat and dog vaccines we give our pets, that somehow jumped on over?
  6. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

    London UK
    re only few 'safe' cell lines being used today -- in spite of that a recent sequencing study find many fragments of various viruses, including some retroviral fragments, and including whole porcine viruses, in vaccines (whole virions were found in 2 types of rotavirus vaccine, FDA decide it was fine to leave them on the market!). saying this 'cos it is thought that in at least the case of rotavirus vaccine the contamination is thought to have happened through a product used in the production, not the cell line...

    sorry, complicated way of saying that so much goes into making of vaccines that it is not only the actual cells used for culturing of vaccine products that can be a source of contamination...
  7. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

    The problem is that quality control was still pretty poor until improved methods developed in the 1980s (PCR etc).
  8. Karin


    Good question. Again, I am refering to 'The River', which in its thousand pages is a mine of information and references. Animal retroviruses, from mice, monkeys, whatever, have been jumping to humans from the beginning of times, through contacts with these animals' blood: bites, food preparation, hunting, etc... The person infected does develop antibodies against these retroviruses, but doesn't develop disease and doesn't pass it on further, because the viruses are not adapted to a human host. A researcher, I think Preston Marx (quoting from memory), demonstrated that in order for an SIV (simian retrovirus) to adapt to the human host and become infectious in humans and cause disease - that is to become an HIV (human retrovirus) - the SIV had to undergo rapid passages through cell lines including human cell lines, as is being done during vaccine production, where viruses are passaged multiple times through cell lines until they mutate and lose their infectivity (leading to an 'attenuated' live virus). In nature, you simply do not have conditions where a virus can experience such mulptiple passages.

    In the same way, XMRV, though related to mouse retroviruses MLVs, is a HUMAN retrovirus, not a mouse one. Where did it come from? Why is it showing up at the same time as HIV (more or less)? Maybe because the conditions that resulted in the accidental 'creation' of HIV were also there to create XMRV, that is, rapid passage of animal retroviruses through human cell lines.

    This is just my own theory. I do not have any background in virology so I might be having it all wrong.
  9. judderwocky

    judderwocky Senior Member

    thats the thing, it all comes down to trim5alpha...at least for hiv and siv i think.... "Kaiser et al. have suggested that TRIM5α may have played a critical role in the human immune defense system about 4 million years ago, when the retrovirus PtERV1 was infecting chimpanzees.[10] While no trace of PtERV1 has yet been found in the human genome, about 130 traces of PtERV1 DNA have been found in the genome of modern chimpanzees. After recreating part of the PtERV1 retrovirus, it was reported that TRIM5α prevents the virus from entering human cells in vitro. While this cellular defense mechanism may have been very useful 4 million years ago when facing a PtERV1 epidemic, it has the side effect of leaving cells more susceptible to attack by the HIV-1 retrovirus. Recently, doubt has been cast over the conclusions made by Kaiser et al. By using a PtERV1 capsid, which produces higher titer virus-like particles, Perez-Caballero et al. reported that PtERV1 is not restricted by either human or chimpanzee TRIM5α. [11]" ---

    the weird thing .. is that trim5alpha doesn't work against everythign and your body has several of them... apobec3 ... but its all about structural changes... sometimes a virus from another species will bypass these mechanisms.... it seems that a lot of retroviruses remain well behaved in just one host ... but sometimes... interaction with other retroviruses, mutations, interactions with new species... chance... who knows... allows them to spread outside of host species....."xenotropic"....
  10. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

    Could current vaccines, flu shots, and medicines be contaminated with MuLv's?
    This is something I posted on the wrong thread:
    Mice Used to Grow Viruses in Brain and for Quality Control
    I found this here: http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/Animal...s/vaccines.htm

    "Virus Vaccines
    The production of a viral vaccine is broadly similar to that of a bacterial vaccine, involving seed lot, purification, concentration, and packaging, followed by freeze-drying. Viruses are propagated in cells of animal or human origin. In the past, viruses were cultured in vivo,as in the production of smallpox virus on the brains of mice. Since 1949, primary cell cultures have largely been produced using in vitro methods.

    Quality Control
    In vaccine production, mice are used most extensively for quality control. Vaccine formulations include constituents such as living tissues, viruses and bacteria. Thus, since all vaccine batches are not the same, their content and effects must be tested regularly at selected stages of production to monitor safety, as required by federal regulations."

    This is a snippet of an e-mail I received from a virologist who has worked with symbian retroviruses. He was writing me back about XMRV. Here he is talking about how there are still some retrovirologists questioning whether or not the experiments finding XMRV and MuLv's in CFS patients might be caused by lab contamination. I think, however, that it gives a good explanation on how easy it would be for vaccines, flu shots, or medicines to be contaminated with MuLv's if that same lab is working with lab mice:

    "...Many labs grow mouse cells and human cells in the same incubator and by chance there may have been contamination (a pipet used to take the tissue culture medium off of the mouse cells that was accidently used to put medium on the human cells would be enough to transfer the virus from the culture of mouse cells to the culture of human cells). Thus, the detection of such mouse viruses in human cells in culture is suspect. Similarly, a favorite experiment is to put human tumors in mice and watch them grow (or try to cure them). These human cells would certainly get infected with the mouse xenotropic virus while in the mouse and this could wind up back in the lab incubator. Finally, the technique of polymerase chain reaction where we make many copies of DNA from a small number of copies so that we can detect it is famous for finding contaminants..."

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page