Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by kurt, Mar 23, 2010.
Did that observed response rule out the possibility it was a cross-reactive species that was found? We know that MuLV type antibodies are cross-reactive.
Esther raises a good point. I have yet to see anyone challenge or attack a positive rumor about XMRV. This is a double standard. But now that challenges me also to not have a double standard.
So for the record, yes, I have reported sometimes hearing back channel rumors, due to some of my research contacts. Most of the rumors are of negative XMRV findings. But there are a few positive rumors also, just not as many. WPI has hinted in several different ways that somebody out there is getting positives for XMRV. I will try to remember that also in any future statement about 'rumors'. So to clarify, there are rumors both of labs finding XMRV and of labs not finding XMRV.
My view is that even when all these studies are reported, neither positive nor negative outcome is completely proven until a sufficient body of studies is available and all reasonable angles have been explored. For example, a positive XMRV study might have false positives or cross-reactive findings, and a negative XMRV study might have testing or cohort problems. To be balanced we should consider both sides, the risks for both types of outcomes.
I expect we will see enough publications by summer to validate both types of rumors, and researchers on both sides will take sides in the debate. And probably we should leave the more detailed scientific debates to them.
I totally agree. Even if the XMRV studies do not lead quickly to a cure, if all they accomplish is to raise awareness of the existing organic evidence for CFS and therefore silence the CFS psychologizers that would be a big help.
OK, taking a break now for awhile...
Thanks Gerwyn -- I'd would sincerely a summary in laymen's terms -- I think that would be very helpful for all of us.
Also, awhile back you mentioned that although XMRV was found in healthy controls (approx 10 million in the US), the titres were higher in the CFS/ME population. If you could post a link to that part of the study, that would be great.
Thanks in advance! :Retro smile:
Who do I kiss first??? The Doctor or Kim!!! (Oh, wait...do I GET to "kiss"?)
I've wanted to have that info available since his site began...too embarrassed to come right out and ask for help in linking it! Just tip-toed around - hinting here and there!
Please, take the time if you can, to read the whole site as there is valuable data there. (dr. Chia was also "around" at the time of the Incline Village Epidemic and mentions the cdc's reaction)
(Yep, Kim...that's what it will mean!)
(Note: especially interesting are the FAQ'S)
Precisely the evidence is" in vitro" --believe it or not ME sufferers are actually alive so in vitro evidence is irrelevant. A lot of sufferes feel as though they are in a glass bowl of course. We dont do introductory level in the Uk.I have already answered your questions re by background once.Is your brainfog troubling you again?
it is a shame that the meaning is so nebulous in the US you could have all sorts of people masquerading as someone they are not.I am sorry that the training in the US is so fragmented but it is fully integrated in the UK.
Kim....I don't want to keep hi-jacking this thread...but DID I start one on Enteroviruses? (I don't THINK i did?!...I think somebody told me to?). I was just giving Niddynoddy a long-winded answer to her question of me. I'll be glad to move whatever I need to - just tell me what. (I'll butt out now!lol!)
I DID clearly state that my comments were not personal to you but were merely to illustrate the point that we should not be operating double standards over what people should be required to substantiate when engaging in what is usually a speculative debate.
I may be thick (well actually not - having a first class honours degree and MSc with Distinction etc) but the statement of yours I quoted is meaningless to me in isolation. Perhaps you are tired but you continue to speak in non sequiturs. If you would like the discussion to extend beyond those who profess a knowledge of virology (i.e. to address the the vast majority of this forum) then you owe it to the rest of us to give a little context and explanation to your statements.
I certainly didn't suggest that Kurt has any particular or superior knowledge - he has been open about his qualifications and lack of qualifications on the subject. The point I was making was that we are all 'amateurs' here and are largely speculating anyway. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by a qualified microbiologist and how this relates to the speciality of virology? Actually I thought you were a qualified lawyer as well as psychologist?
Actually that doesn't matter. You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else on this forum.
Some of Huber's work may be in vivo, I have not read every part of that yet.
I know you have a micro degree, just was wondering what level, BS, MS, Ph.D. Usually in the US when someone is a 'microbiologist' they have a PhD or sometimes MS. BS is more technologist work. But maybe different in the UK.
I've got a Bsc...
Bronze Swimming certificate!
My doctor has a PhD in BS
lol...thanks. Laughter is often the best medicine, but sometimes it's easy to feel we're in the placebo group.
"Electric communication will never be a substitute for the face of someone who with their soul encourages another person to be brave and true."
This is a tough medium and a tricky subject. I hope we can see when the other is being brave and true.
Several posts have mentioned a rumored 'April Surprise' by WPI that is interpreted as a pending positive study. Maybe you did not see them. Also other comments have been made and reported back channel, or so I have been told. Those are rumors I was referring to.
April suprise could mean anything i think that is one rumour if indeed it can be classed as such the negative rumours are much more overt and numerous
I am working hard on winning those kisses. I made a new thread Enteroviruses and ME/CFS just for you jackie. I hope you like it!
None of hubers work is in vivo kurt.I am suprised that you have not had time to read that bit.you seem to have had plenty of time to read the other bits.
this appears typical of a microbiology major course in the USA
During the first year, students in microbiology take basic college courses in English, chemistry, biology or zoology and mathematics. The curriculum over the next three years includes advanced courses in microbiology and the life sciences. These courses include pathogenic microbiology, virology, immunology, parasitology, microbial genetics, food microbiology, microbial ecology and bacterial physiology. The department also offers courses in epidemiology, animal disease, and food safety to enhance our students' understanding of applied microbiology and infectious disease.
I agree that it appears quite fragmented--no evdence of microbiology and virology being seperate though
No the situation is not the same in the UK
A couple rumors I have heard are that WPI actually found XMRV in 98% of PWC rather than the PUBLISHED 68%.
Also that it was found in autistic patients....etc.
Any of the volumes of information that has circulated around these forums that was NOT PUBLISHED in a journal is either rumor or back channel.
marco that is not what you said is it?
This is what you said
The dialogue here has largely been between Kurt and Gerwyn. To be perfectly honest most of Gerwyn's contributions are like alphabet soup to me. I don't have the background and, while I might understand the science in time, frankly I don't have the inclination as I don't feel qualified to offer an opinion. Kurt has described his background and its limitations. As far as I'm aware, Gerwyn has self described himself in correspondence as a psychologist and has stated on this thread that he has educated himself on virology. I have to ask if this makes Gerwyn any more qualified to speak on the subject than anyone else, in fact he could be a complete nutter. As could we all.
I continue to speak in what ? i tend to use english.
Please find an example of my speculation
What context would you like
Regarding all the posts calling for Kurt to back up every statement he makes with a quote or a link. I would like to point out that this is would be a double standard if we didn't ask everyone to do the same. I have copied a couple quotes from gerwyn in this thread which were not backed up by any quote or link.
I am not asking gerwyn to go through this and actually backup all these statements. THAT WOULD BE ABSURD! So why should anyone expect Kurt to have to do it??
BTW; I am not suggesting any of these statements are incorrect. Most of them are probably perfectly fine. They are just not backed up.
The following are quoted from posts by gerwyn on this thread;
So come on! Can't we all just get along?
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