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ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
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XMRV AND ANXIETY DEPRESSION THE anxious Amygdala

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Gerwyn, May 4, 2010.

  1. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    Take home message

    XMRV inserts into CREB genes causing insertional mutagenesis.

    In simple terms that means that it can change the activity of the gene and a change in the nature and function of the proteins made.

    CREB protects neurons within the amgydala.Down regulation can cause excessive neural death in the Amgydala(this is the responsible for regulating levels of anxiety ).

    Excessive cell death causes hyperanxiety states and paradoxically depression.

    So could XMRV cause anxiety and depression hypothetically yes

    Clin Invest. 2005 October 1; 115(10): 26972699.
    doi: 10.1172/JCI26436.

    PMCID: PMC1236699
    Copyright 2005, American Society for Clinical Investigation
    The anxious amygdala: CREB signaling and predisposition to anxiety and alcoholism
    Gary Wand
    Department of Medicine and Psychiatry, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland, USA.
    Address correspondence to: Gary S. Wand, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Ross Research Building, Room 863, 720 Rutland Avenue, Baltimore, Maryland 21205, USA. Phone: (410) 955-7225; Fax: (410) 955-0841; E-mail: gwand@jhmi.edu.
    Small right arrow pointing to: See the article "Deficits in amygdaloid cAMP-responsive elementbinding protein signaling play a role in genetic predisposition to anxiety and alcoholism" on page 2762.

    Small right arrow pointing to: This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.

    * Other Sections▼
    o Abstract
    o Alcohol-abuse disorders
    o Alcohol and the nucleus accumbens
    o Alcohol and the amygdala
    o Selectively bred rodent lines
    o References

    Abstract
    The amygdala is believed to play a key role in assigning emotional significance to specific sensory input, and conditions such as anxiety, autism, stress, and phobias are thought to be linked to its abnormal function. Growing evidence has also implicated the amygdala in mediation of the stress-dampening properties of alcohol. In this issue of the JCI, Pandey and colleagues identify a central amygdaloid signaling pathway involved in anxiety-like and alcohol-drinking behaviors in rats. They report that decreased phosphorylation of cAMP responsive elementbinding protein (CREB) resulted in decreased neuropeptide Y (NPY) expression in the central amygdala of alcohol-preferring rats, causing high anxiety-like behavior. Alcohol intake by these animals was shown to increase PKA-dependent CREB phosphorylation and thereby NPY expression, subsequently ameliorating anxiety-like behavior. These provocative data suggest that a CREB-dependent neuromechanism underlies high anxiety-like and excessive alcohol-drinking behavior.
  2. V99

    V99 *****

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    What would the rats be like if this continued for years?
  3. Adam

    Adam *****

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    My guess is rat-arsed.
  4. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest


    RAT arsed infected and infectious
  5. V99

    V99 *****

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    :Retro tongue: ahhh rat-arsed :tongue:
  6. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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  7. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    Thanks, G. Interesting find. Though I wonder if the XMRV copy number in the CNS would be high enough to affect (through insertion into the appropriate CREB genes) a sufficient number of neurons to cause these problems. Unless of course the CNS is a tissue reservoir for XMRV, in which case there may be sufficient copies.

    Boy did those rats sign up for the wrong 12-Step Program.

    The Take home message is that I need a drink.

    (Oddly, that is always my take home message.)
  8. JillBohr

    JillBohr Senior Member

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    Gerwyn, this is very interesting. When looking at my ASD children, they have family members (on both the mother (me) and their father's side) that suffer from depression and anxiety. Somehow I was able to dodge the bullet sort of speak but I must have passed on something to my children because anxiety is very high in my children and my higher functioning son goes through wild mood swings that make me wonder if he is bi-polar. Back in 2007, the Economist printed an article called "Bad is Good" regarding the rise of depression. Chris Lowry, from Bristol University, and his colleagues had a hypothesis that a particular sort of bacterium might alleviate clinical depression. It caught my eye because it was based on the clean hypothesis. They used this first on lung cancer and it improved the patients health. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the article on line but I found a copy of it here:

    http://www.progressdaily.com/2007/05/02/depressing-cleanliness/

    M. vaccae is anti-inflammatory, and particulary good at switching off Th2 inflammation. As you are probably aware, there was a clinical study with the PPAR-gamma agonist pioglitazone, like M. Vaccae, it enhances IL=10 release and shuts off Th2.

    After reading that article, it made me be go back and reflect on my family and the various health problems that not only inlude ME/CFS, autism, cancer and MS but also depression, anxiety disorders and drinking. I forgot to mention that diabetes is big in my family as well. I know, what a family I have. :rolleyes:

    Gerwyn, I forgot to add my major point. In depression, there are many similarities in cytokines that you see in ME/CFS, autism, etc. Perhaps that is why so many doctors prescribe SSRI's autism, ME/CFS, etc. As you may know, not only are the number of cases of autism and ME/CFS rising but so are cases of depression.
  9. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I guess I am really lucky as I don't have anxiety or depression. Many people with ME cannot tolerate alcohol as it makes their physical symptoms worse.

    The Gupta program talks a lot about the Amgydala. Patients who do have anxiety seem to find it helpful. Maybe some connection here?

    It could also explain co-morbid psych problems.
  10. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

  11. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Bad Osteoporosis all through my family, Gerwyn. My aunt died of bone cancer and her husband is currently dying of prostate cancer.

    These were my big concerns if I was ever "cured" of ME. Having seen the devastating Osteoporosis and then the deaths from cancer.
  12. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    This is what was worrying me if XMRV downregulates creb then osteoporosis is a real possibility

    REB induces BMP2 transcription in osteoblasts and CREB knockout reduces bone mass in mice
    Bone, Volume 44, Issue null, Pages S27-S27
    M. Zhao, J. Edwards, S. Ko, R. Parlato, S. Harris, G. Mundy
    You can get the full-text article here... ...if you are:

    * healthcare practitioner
    * interested in pay-per-view article purchase
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  13. subtr4ct

    subtr4ct Senior Member

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    Very interesting -- thanks, Gerwyn.
  14. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    is this some type of british humor...you guys are getting such a good laugh from it and i'm sitting here scratching my head saying...huh!?!?!?:confused:

    let us in on the joke, please:innocent1::D
  15. jimbob

    jimbob ME/CFS84-XMRV+

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    I think it's like US version of sh-t-faced!
  16. Otis

    Otis Señor Mumbler

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    Hi my name's Templeton and I have a problem. :Retro tongue:
  17. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Now I know what made Otis Blue. It was CREBS wot done it.
  18. Rosemary

    Rosemary Senior Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/04/autism.brain.amygdala/index.html

    Any thoughts on why the amygdala in toddlers with autism is 13 percent larger than unaffected kids ?

    CNN) -- The size of a specific part of the brain may help experts pinpoint when autism could first develop, University of North Carolina researchers report.

    The amygdala helps individuals process faces and emotions.
    Using MRI brain scans, researchers found that the area of the brain called the amygdala was, on average, 13 percent larger in young children with autism, compared with control group of children without autism. In the study, published in the latest Archives of General Psychiatry, researchers scanned 50 toddlers with autism and 33 children without autism at age 2 and again at age 4. The study adjusted for age, sex and IQ.

    "We believe that children with autism have normal-sized brains at birth but at some point, in the latter part of the first year of life, it [the amygdala] begins to grow in kids with autism. And this study gives us insight inside the underlying brain mechanism so we can design more rational interventions," said lead study author Dr. Joseph Piven.

    "Many studies have observed the brain grows too big in kids with autism, but this study finds that by age 2, the amygdala is already bigger and stops growing," said Kosofsky. "So it tells us the critical difference has already developed. It now poses the question: Are children born with autism or does it develop in the first two years of life?"
  19. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    i will have a good look is it just the am that is bigger
  20. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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