Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Wrong Diagnosis Site - Fredd's Protocol

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Idie, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    There are a few rat studies, backing up the claims. But no human studies.
  2. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest


    It is my understanding that if you can manage to get enough antioxidants in you, you will not have auto antibodies. (This wont fix over/under thyroid, just the autoantibodies). I believe I read a study that showed it. I am not saying to take more than watever is a safe amount of each antioxidant, but when I need to get more antioxidant action I just find and take more antioxidants. As for E, I take 1g/day d-alpha-ocopherol. Now they are saying this can cause cancer because it replaces gamma-tocopherol which is antcancer. So you could try mixed tocopherols. I simply buy an extra 200mg gamma tocopherol. No idea if that is enough.

    I just rad this : ?Carnitine - Decreased tissue levels of carnitine in both hypo- and hyperthyroidism contribute to muscle fatigue.
    And it reminded me that in cases of hyperthyroid, the muscle wasting can be completely prevented with sufficient carnitine. Hyperthyroid just rips through carnitine, CoQ10, and antioxidants...keep them supplied in large amounts and you can escape damage. Still gotta solve the thyroid problem though...



    Regarding Alzheimer's and magnesium-l-threonate...the article is by the manufacturer but it is highly footnoted, as always. Life Extension povides its pills not to make money but to make cutting edge things available to members - like myself - when they are not yet even available by anyone else. The organization often wants to produce something awesome cutting edge like PQQ which regenerates mitochondria, but they have to try to convince at least a certain number of people that they will benefit from this or it's too expensive to produce. They are STILL trying to drum up interest in PQQ. (I'd take it every day but it's too expensive, but if they can get more people to buy it, the cost will come down, which benefits them too as they want to take these substances).

    So...maybe it's me ... but I think of Life Extension as a club that I'm part of that wants to make cheap cutting edge nutrients available. I dont think they're in it for the money. Did you know they spend their profits on commissioning research to advance nutritional science? If you are in South Florida, you can have your sister join their clinical study of magnesium-l-threonate:

    Here's the article, you can check the footnotes:

    So for example, here is reference (8):
    Enhancement of Learning and Memory by Elevating Brain Magnesium
    Neuron, Volume 65, Issue 2, 165-177, 28 January 2010
    Inna Slutsky, Nashat Abumaria, Long-Jun Wu, Chao Huang, Ling Zhang, Bo Li, Xiang Zhao, Arvind Govindarajan, Ming-Gao Zhao, Min Zhuo, Susumu Tonegawa, Guosong LiuSee
    A magnesium compound (MgT) can efficiently elevate brain magnesium
    Elevation of brain magnesium enhanced learning and memory in young and aged rats
    Elevation of brain magnesium increased NR2B, NMDAR signaling, and synaptic plasticity
    Elevation of brain magnesium increased number of presynaptic boutons in hippocampus

    Learning and memory are fundamental brain functions affected by dietary and environmental factors. Here, we show that increasing brain magnesium using a newly developed magnesium compound (magnesium-L-threonate, MgT) leads to the enhancement of learning abilities, working memory, and short- and long-term memory in rats. The pattern completion ability was also improved in aged rats. MgT-treated rats had higher density of synaptophysin-/synaptobrevin-positive puncta in DG and CA1 subregions of hippocampus that were correlated with memory improvement. Functionally, magnesium increased the number of functional presynaptic release sites, while it reduced their release probability. The resultant synaptic reconfiguration enabled selective enhancement of synaptic transmission for burst inputs. Coupled with concurrent upregulation of NR2B-containing NMDA receptors and its downstream signaling, synaptic plasticity induced by correlated inputs was enhanced. Our findings suggest that an increase in brain magnesium enhances both short-term synaptic facilitation and long-term potentiation and improves learning and memory functions.
  3. maddietod

    maddietod Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    Rydra - Thanks for the additional information. Unfortunately, this sister doesn't believe in CFS or any 'alternative' ideas. So I'll never sell her on trying something untried on humans.

    I'd love to hear if anybody here tries it for cognitive issues.
  4. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    IMHO that is what "cutting edge" means. It means we can benefit from the lastest studies before waiting 20 years for a thousand studies to be out on it.
  5. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    I plan to try it, but I am not sure how I'd know if it is working unless it actually restores my photogenic memory. Because I find that DHEA protects the magnesium in my brain in the NMDA receptors from being stripped off and so it protects my memory. I have posted several studies in the past that estrogen is proven to do this (made from DHEA in my case).

    It takes 30 days for magnesium-l-hreonate to make the kind of effect that could potentially be detectable by someone not so bad off (Like you could probably tell the difference in an Alzheimer;s patient after a few weeks, but not so much in someone with less obvious issues). I cant order the supplement right away though. I'm not sure where it fits in for me. Spring is expensive lab test time for me (spring sale).
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Rockt,

    Chronic sinus problems are a common b12 defieicny problem. That along with a cough that isn't very productive becasue the mucous is so thick and sticky it doesn't flow and can hardly be coughed up. As the tissues normalize the mucous gets thinner and runny and slick instead of solid like jelly and sticky and lumpy, like a stiff jelly.
  7. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    This article says ibuprofin helps and curcumin and omega-3 are promising...the idea is to minimize inflammtion which is at the heart of the problem.

    But this article teste dboth ibuprofin and curcumin in rats and only the curcumin had the fully desired effect:

    Remember though - curcumin interferes with CYP3A4 the gene encoding th eenzyme through which 50% of the drugs on the market are cleared - causing them to raise to toxic levels. So not a good idea to take for someone on medicines.
  8. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest


    Best I can figure so far about "internal trembling" - I searched it on google and only thing I found is that it can be cused by hypo/hyper thyroid and that CoQ10 can help about 10% (not enough IMHO). It so happens my unilatera brain swelling is back that I found to be tied to thyroid problems. But at the same time I went severely anemic - gasping for air, everything too tired to lift, etc. So I am thinking it takes iron to makes thyroid hormone and I am having thyroid trouble again due to not taking my multi (which I did because too many pillls were making me nauseous). So that is my best guess...but it takes a bit of time to correct anemia and then not sure how long after that for thyroid, to be able to tell.

  9. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    Looking into which hormones cant be made w/o sufficient iron, I find cortisol is one of them...of interest to the many adrenal fatgue sufferers here:
    US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

    Ann Nutr Metab. 1991;35(2):111-5.
    Reduced cortisol secretion in patients with iron deficiency.
    Saad MJ, Morais SL, Saad ST.
    The iron-containing protein cytochrome P-450 is present in high concentration in the adrenal cortex and is involved in the synthesis of corticosterone. This study was designed to determine the cortisol response to adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) in patients with severe iron deficiency. Eleven patients with iron deficiency and 15 normal controls were studied. Fasting blood samples were taken from all the subjects before and 30, 60 and 120 min after infusion of 25 units of ACTH for plasma cortisol determination. Six patients had blood samples collected at night, too. The same test was performed in 6 patients with iron deficiency, 7 days after therapy with 800 mg of ferrous sulfate. No significant differences were observed between patients and controls for the baseline cortisol values. The cortisol secretion and the increment at 30, 60 and 120 min after ACTH infusion were significantly lower in patients than in controls, either before or after ferrous sulfate therapy. There were no significant differences between baseline and stimulated cortisol values in patients before and after 7 days of ferrous sulfate therapy. There was no change in cortisol secretion rhythm in patients with iron deficiency (cortisol level at night = 5.1 +/- 4.3 micrograms/dl). In conclusion, the results of the present study showed that, in patients with severe iron deficiency, the cortisol secretion after ACTH stimulation was decreased.
    I also find this about thyroid hormone at stopthethyroidmadness. Of interest to me because I get the gasping for air symptoms at low ferritin but normal hemoglobin. It is fixed by iron however, but I cant understand why I wasnt constantly gasping for air when younger as my hemoglobin was never normal then...
    A large body of thyroid patients have been surprised to discover that being hypothyroid also results in having an iron issue, whether just low Ferritin (storage iron), or problems revealed in other iron labs (% saturation, serum iron, TIBC), or with all, which are important.

    Additionally, some patients can have what looks like a normal Ferritin, yet the other iron labs reveal the true problem. So lets look at the entire iron problem.

    What is ferritin? Ferritin is an iron-storage protein which keeps your iron in a dissolvable and usable state, making the iron non-toxic to cells around it. So when Ferritin is measured via a blood test, it is basically measuring the iron you have tucked away for safe use.

    Why is measuring storage iron important? You can have so-called normal or even optimal serum iron and saturation levels, and even normal hemoglobin and hematocrit, yet a low Ferritin. And some patients report continued problems raising desiccated thyroid even with just low ferritin while the other labs look good. What causes low ferritin when other labs look great? It can point to bacteria and viruses feeding on iron. Even too much of certain herbs like Milk Thistle are said to lower ferritin. Or it can precede becoming anemic.

    Why do we often have low iron levels? Because being hypothyroid can result in a lowered production of hydrochloric acid which in turn leads to the malabsorption of iron, whether revealed with low ferritin, or with inadequate levels of serum or saturation. It can also lower your body temperature (common for those on T4-only thyroxine, as well) which causes you to make less red blood cells. Some even find themselves with a higher-than-normal temperature with on-going iron problems. Additionally, being hypo can result in heavier periods for women, which causes more iron loss.

    Why is having low iron levels a problem and what are symptoms? First, though the slide into low iron can be symptomless, it eventually becomes the precursor to being anemic, revealed by the other iron labssaturation and serum iron. And once the latter occurs, you can then have symptoms which mimic hypothyroiddepression, achiness, easy fatigue, weakness, faster heartrate, palpitations, loss of sex drive, hair loss and/or foggy thinking, etc, causing a patient to think they are not on enough desiccated thyroid, or that desiccated thyroid is not working. Excessively low Ferritin as well as low iron can also make it difficult to continue raising your desiccated thyroid, resulting in hyper symptoms when raising desiccated thyroid.

    In turn, having low iron levels decreases deiodinase activity, i.e. it slows down the conversion of T4 to T3. Biologically, insufficient iron levels may be affecting the first two of three steps of thyroid hormone synthesis by reducing the activity of the enzyme thyroid peroxidase, which is dependent on iron. Thyroid peroxidaxe brings about the chemical reactions of adding iodine to tyrosine (amino acid), which then produces T4 and T3. Insufficient iron levels, which low ferritin reveals, alters and reduces the conversion of T4 to T3, besides binding T3. Additionally, low iron levels can increase circulating concentrations of TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone).

    Even worse, good iron levels are needed in the production of cortisol via the adrenal cortex. This study reveals that an iron-containing protein is present in high amounts in the adrenal cortex and is involved in the synthesis of corticosterone. So by having low iron, you can potentially lower your cortisol levels.

    Iron, in addition to iodine, selenium and zinc, are essential for normal thyroid hormone metabolism

    Can my ferritin look great, but my iron levels are not? Do I need other iron labs done along with ferritin? You betcha. Because as mentioned above, ferritin can look optimal, yet your other iron labs reveal you have poor iron levels. Why would the ferritin look good when the others dont? Because ferritin can rise in the presence of inflammation (very common), infection or even cancer. TIBC will also tend to go high in the presence of low iron. Inflammation of any kind is especially common with some thyroid patients and needs to be discovered and treated, such as using flavonoid-rich foods like krill oil, as well as turmeric (containing curcumin), Lauricidin or ginger capsules.Ferritin rises to counter the normal binding of tissue iron due to the infection or inflammation. The total lab profiles you should request include:

    Serum iron
    % Saturation.

    This page gives you a general idea of what you are looking for in all these labs and what they mean. Thyroid patient Nick Foote has reported that you are looking for a % saturation to be between 35-45%, and a serum iron at least 90, in order to better tolerate desiccated thyroid or T3.

    How do I prepare for iron labs? Most doctors and medical websites will state to be off iron for a good 12 hours before testing.

    My TIBC is low as is my iron. What does that mean for me? A low TIBC, which stands for Total iron binding capacity, has meant patients have been unable to take high amounts of elemental iron as others do to raise the low iron. Why? Iron needs to be bound in the blood in order to carry it where needed. When that binding is low, iron will accumulate too high in your blood. Thus, patients have learned to take lower amounts of iron to raise the low iron and/or low ferritin, such as less than 100 mg of elemental iron. It will take longer to raise your low iron or low ferritin that those without low TIBC.

    Whats the solution to the above? The solution, after you have verified low iron levels with a blood test is to supplement your diet with iron. Foods rich in iron include lean meats, liver, eggs, green leafy vegetables (spinach, collard greens, kale), wheat germ, whole grain breads and cereals, raisins, and molasses. You can also help yourself by cooking foods in a cast iron skillet.

    But most patients and their doctors have found it necessary to supplement with iron tablets, which includes Ferrous Sulfate, Ferrous Glutamate, Ferrous Fumerate, etc. Supplementation needs to be spread out during the day, with food, for better absorption. Bluebonnet is a favorite brand name of iron, but there are other good brands.

    Ferrous Sulfate is usually the cheapestjust be sure you are taking a good Vit. E with it since there is evidence that its depleted with the use of Ferrous Sulfate. And always take it with food. The owner of this site had to take 2-3 325 mgs. of Ferrous Sulfate with food and throughout the day, for months to even begin to get her Ferritin up, plus 800 mgs Magnesium.

    Ferrous Gluconate may cause fewer symptoms and is milder on stomach. Ferrous Fumerate is often prescribed by doctors as it, too, has fewer side effects, absorbs well, and is easier on the stomach.

    Beware of liquid iron that is animal based (heme)it may be the best absorbable iron, but it can blacken your teeth, as it did to the owner of this site. One suggested solution is to use a straw when taking the liquid iron. VEGETABLE BASED (nonheme) liquid iron avoids this, even if less absorbable. Also, because heme iron is much more absorbable, patients take far less to achieve the same results as tablets.

    I was contacted by a physician practicing alternative medicine who highly recommends Floradix Iron and Herbs, or Enzymatic Therapy Liquid Liver. Check in your local health food store or pharmacy. From Canada, there is a chewable non-constipating iron called Hemofactors by Natural Factors, and one patient who wrote me swears by it. Its Ferric Pyrophosphate, also called SunActive Iron and youll want to pay attention to the elemental iron amount to get enough. Many thyroid patients like the Bluebonnet brand of iron, saying it causes less constipation.

    How much iron supplementation do I need to raise my low levels, and how long do I take it? The first step is to find out how much elemental ironthe iron that is absorbable, is in each tablet of whatever iron compound you take. The mg. amount on your bottle does NOT necessarily refer to the elemental iron. For example, in one 300 mg tablet of ferrous sulfate, there may only be approx. 50 mg of elemental iron.

    Next, patients have discovered they may need 150 to 200 mg of elemental iron daily, spread out with meals, in order to adequately raise their ferritin and/or iron levels. And it can still take many weeks, and sometimes 2-3 months, to improve your levels to the desirable goal, which appears to be a Ferritin lab result of 70-90. For men it will be higher. Keep track of labwork with your doctor to see where your levels are, because you want to get off the iron once you achieve your goal since iron promotes free radicals. Some women who are menstruating may have to stay on maintenance amounts of iron. Check with your doctor.

    Should I take anything with the iron to help? Yes, Vitamin C. First, Vitamin C is said to help the absorption of iron. Second, since the introduction of iron in your body can promote the stimulation of free radicals, Vitamin C has a known role of combating those free radicals. How much C? Some take it to tolerancethe amount they can handle before getting too-soft stools. Others are in the 1000-2000 mg range. At the very least, patients have discovered, drink down your iron tablets with orange juice or a drink like Emergen-C.

    Also taking a mineral supplement can assist the absorption, as can B-vitamins. One important B-vitamin is Folic Acid, which promotes red blood cell formation. Adding it to your iron supplementation can be key.

    What about the constipation I get from taking particular iron supplements? If you do find yourself with constipation or very hard stools, talk to your doctor about adding Magnesium Citrate as a supplement, taken twice a day, until you find the amount that softens your stool. Youll know within a few days if the amount you are taking is enough.or even too much (i.e. too much will cause diarrhea).

    Can I take iron at the same time I swallow my desiccated thyroid? If you swallow your desiccated thyroid instead of doing it sublingually, its important to avoid swallowing iron at the same time, since the iron will bind to some of the thyroid hormones and make them useless. Take your iron several hours later. If you are doing your natural thyroid sublingually, you are fine whenever you swallow your iron.

    How soon do I re-test my iron labs when Im supplementing iron? Every 4-6 weeks is best, say patients. You dont want to overload yourself with iron, and some patients have had that happen when doctors make them wait too long!

    What if I cant tolerate oral iron? If you have problems absorbing oral iron due to a previous stomach surgery or other issues, another option is to use Venofer an intravenous iron which helps replenish body iron stores. Talk to your doctor. (Thanks go to Chenille for this info)

    Once I get my ferritin or iron levels back up, will it all stay up? For females, some of us have had our ferritin or iron levels plummet again, so it may be wise to stick with a small dose of supplemental iron or eat iron rich foods, especially if you are female and still menstruating. Once into menopause, your ferritin levels may stay where they need to.

    What about iron injections or IV? If your ferritin is in the teens, or your iron labs are seriously low, ask your doctor about either an iron injection or prescribing an IV iron infusion. Either will raise your iron levels far quickerjust a few weeks as compared to a few months from supplementation. The IV infusion does require being in a health facility. and it can be expensive, but the plus of raising iron quicker is there. You will be monitored to prevent anaphylactic shock.

    What if I find my ferritin is super high? High levels of ferritin can point to an iron overload, such as the inherited disorder called hemochromatosis, which you can read about here. Your doctor will usually direct you to give blood in order to lower these harmful higher levels. With hemochromatosis, you can have a low TIBC or UIBC.

    Are men different than women in their iron lab results? Yes. Men normally have higher levels of ferritin than women without having an infection. Its common to see healthy men with a ferritin over 100.

    Need a good doctor to work with in all this? Go here.

    [NOte the reference to folic acid. God, this stuff is so interrelated it's a headache. Like an MC Escher drawing - no beginning or end]

    For more interesting info on balancing iron, zinc, and copper go here:
  10. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

    That's how Dave's is and still has not thinned so I was hoping the apple cidar vinegar would help. He must have some kind of inflammation running around in there.

    Rockt - I believe the apple cider vinegar DOES work for me and my sinus issues - I stopped my ACV powder pill (1.25 grams from Swanson Vitamins) in favor of taking 1 Tablespoon of the liquid. It was evidently not enough because on the 3rd night I was stuffed up nasally again.

    I know!!
  11. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    Idie, despite that I found only references to internal trembling in thyroid problems, it FEELS to me more like low cortisol. I had the same trembling issues before taking DHEA, during allergy season when my adrenal wears out, and when I was exposed to flea control products which are androgen blockers. I found that iron is required to make cortisol. So since it takes at least 2 weeks to bring up your iron stores, I just decided I am going to dry dessicated adrenal gland and see if that gets me by until I get my iron levels up. I am not home right now or I'd report back. I know I am taking DHEA but it is not enough during allergy season and it is not enough now. Stay tuned. I feel that I am o n to something.

    P.S. I do NOT have low hemoglobin. But I FREQUENTLY have low ferritin, and that seems to be enough to cause all these symptoms for me. I dont understand it but I never found a doctor who did either...and I found iron fixes it - it does raise my ferritin.

    I would like Angela (Greenshots) to get in with an opinion since there is some tie to BH4 and the kidney's ability to create blood cells out of iron. I dont know how that works so cant say if it is relevant.
  12. Idie



    I have been reading your posts and really appreicate you offering all the information. I have had the internal trembling for over 3 years and it ebbs and flows, meaning it gets a bit better and then worse. Right now it is the worst it has ever been. Last night it woke me three times---that said, I am also in that wonderful phase of hot flashes at night. Are the two related? I'm not sure but what I am sure about is that it sure makes me feel lousy. I'm following along----so once again, thank you.

  13. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest


    I have to say one thing - I started this latestepisode of internal trembling before I started having to use flea producst again, but believe it or not we have been having a thaw up here and my cats brought in fleas again. And the flea products cause me to feel like I am not taking my DHEA and require dessicated adrenal and even then - none of these works very long. It is internal trembling like unto shaking apart. And I may not be able to solve because I am so shakey I can't concentrate or sit still very well. Also the flea product may mess with everything as far as finding out sources of internal trembling w/o it.


    My latest thinking which I havent verified yet because I feel like crap is that this is POSSIBLY due to BH4 deficiency as estrogen (thus DHEA) raises BH4; BH4 is required to make dopamine; insufficient dopamine causes trembling and jerky movement (non-smooth movement). The internal trembling does manifest as spasticity to the outside world (my trembling cant be seen but the resulting spasticity could be detected if anyone looked closely). methylfolate and vitamine C raise BH4, but I was not taking my B vitamins for awhile as they nauseate me. Why it doesnt just go away after taking mfolate for about 2 weeks I dont know unless there is a tie to the concommitant anemia that has occurred in me and which takes longer to recover - I have only been supplementing iron for about a week and I am not gasping for air anymore but am not fully recovered. If the trembling is caused by low dopamine, idk how long it takes to raise levels, and maybe it takes iron to do so and I just dont have enough yet. I am going to ask for a BH4 prescription Monday. I have had symptoms of ataxia since in my 40's (when estrogen wanes) that increases in the evening (diurnal), but is not present all the time, and in fact less often under Freddd's protocol. You can look up dopamine responsive dystonia (DRD) in Wiki to see if this may describe you. BiancaS, who has all the BH4 genes I do (and most of the genes I do) was diagnosed borderline PKU. I considered trying fava beans as this is actually more effective than taking pharmaceutical levadopa (see and would be a way to test the "dopa responsive" part, but then I got to thinking about all the anemic crashes I've had after menopause and now I am afraid to try fava beans.

    I have been wondering why I get anemic after menopause and now I am wondering if I might have one of those G6PD issues - which apparently CAUSE hemolytic anemia in the presence of many drugs, many chemicals, high blood sugar, or oxidative stress (which I certainly have a lot of and do my best to fend off with high dose antioxidants which is not always enough). Ok, idk what G6PD has to do with trembling, but I considered trying fava beans for the L-DOPA to stop trembling as this works in dopamine responsive dystonia, but fava beans can cause hemolytic anemic if you have G6PD enzyme insufficiency. Men have a far greater chance of this problem as it is on the X chromosome, but women CAN have it with mutations on both chromosomes. So I have these fava beans and I am afraid to take them because I am already anemic. I think I might want to get a test for G6PD because of the sudden anemias I get.

    So if you are not now anemic and are SURE you dont have G6PD, you could try fava beans or a bean from india called Mucuna Pruriens (which is higher dose). See the reference above regarding dosages per crushed bean powder and a dose for parkinson's. I have been afraid I was developing Parkinson's for the past 10 years, but decided it could not POSSIBLY be Parkinson's because Parkies (people with Parkinson's) are sweet and even tempered. ;-)
  14. brenda

    brenda Senior Member


    If you put a saucer of water in the middle of the floor, it will catch the fleas so I have been told. I got pesticide poisoning when my home was sprayed for cat fleas and I would never go near that stuff again.

  15. brenda

    brenda Senior Member


    When I get trembling inside I know it is because my cortisone is down and T4 levels have risen in my blood because it has not been able to get into the cells. I stop taking natural thyroid hormone and go onto T3 instead for a while and the trembling stops straight away.
  16. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    I think this is true. I am not positive it is the cortisone that is down or ALL adrenal hormones. But it feels just like it does when my adrenal gland has crapped out AND it DOES affect my thyroid. Iron is required to make thyroid hormone. Now in the case of flea medicine, it SAYS its an androgen (translate DHEA) receptor blocker - which I guess might mean that even if you take DHEA it cant get to the receptors. DHEA/adrenal hormone help me in that case but not for long.

    P.S. Yesterday evening I was crazy with internl trembling. I had been taking 320 mg iron / day to catch up for a little over a week or so. Last night I went to buy fava beans but had no guts to try them, but I did buy a cheese ball soaked in port and ate the whole thing. I shook and trembled all evening but today I feel pretty good - no shakes. Cheese has a lot of tyrosine to make dopamine. I seem to crave cheese when I have allergies which cause drenl problems. idk if there is a connection. I ate the precursor for dopamine and the next day I felt well. However a week+ with iron pills could have kicked in and raised cortisol and given enough time to make T3. Dont know. So could be dopamine or adrenal help needed against shaking wih me.

    Brenda, thanks but only adult fleas can jump into a pan of water - by then they've already laid eggs and you have a big problem. The best non-insecticide solution I can think of is steam cleaning. I did never buy a steam cleaner yet to try as I have hardwood floors and not so sure it wont ruin them...
  17. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    Idie, this website sys that if you take tyrosine (such as in cheese or pills), you bypass the step that needs BH4 and can make dopamine. idk how much is needed - it took a whole cheese ball for me - how much tyrosine is that? Try it. If it works, consider that means that phenylalanine is piling up (PKU) and whether you need a prescription for kuvan (BH4, expensive) or whether you can consistently keep BH4 up:

    Things that raise BH4
    Vitamin C
    Niacin, niacinamide
    Insulin (normal/low blood sugar) [5]
    Possibly helpful: purine GTP (BH4 can be made from it)

    Things that lower BH4
    Genetic polymorphism MTHFR A1298C
    High protein (Ammonia -- 2 BH4 required to eliminate 1 NH3)
    ROS (radical oxygen species)
    High blood sugar (due to oxidative stress)
    Aspirin (interferes with folate absorption)
    Excessive exercise? (Protein breakdown into ammonia)
    Hypothyroid (oxidative stress)
    Lithium, if it causes hypothyroid (it can)
    Hypopituitary (causes oxidative stress)

    Here's the site:

    Also consider potentially levadopa/carbidopa to make dopamine. (I think the tyrosine is enough for me, but I am worried about PKU so want a prescription for Kuvan, in particular for when my BH4 is too low for my kidneys to function). Although I might consider this product from Yasko for L-DOPA:

    Although....I think tyrosine supplements might be better because easier to get through the blood brain barrier (crbidopa is usually prescribed to help get L-DOPA in pst he BBB).
  18. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    CBS / NOS - Kidney Support 90 Capsules

    A Compounded Mutation Specific Formula
    Promotes Enhanced Methylation Cycle Function

    Yasko has the following supplement available. Does anyone know about why the substnces are in this? I know the Yucca is for ammonia - not sure why it is in a CBS forumla instead of a BH4 formula. No idea why carnitine and trehalose are in there. The reason I might be interested is the L-Biopterin. But not sure how that relates to BH4? And I avoid green tea and things containing it as it has been proven to block folate metabolism.

    CBS/NOS Kidney Support aids in the body's ability to support healthy kidney function. .

    Vitamin B12 (hydroxocobalamin) 333mcg
    L-Biopterin 8.33mcg
    NADH (as Panmol) stabilized 333mcg
    Intrinsic Factor (porcine) 1.60mg
    L-Carnitine (as tartrate) 9mg
    Proprietary Blend 392mg
    ~Kidney (bovine, freeze dried)
    ~Dandelion Leaf Powder (Taraxicum officinale)
    ~Trehalose (Treha)
    ~Liver (bovine, freeze dried)
    ~Green Tea Extract .
    ~Yucca schidigera (Root) Extract .

    Here's another interesting Yasko supplement called Methyl Max. Any comments on it? Why the DMAE?

    Vitamin B12 (as methylcobalamin) 2.5mg
    Vitamin D3 (as cholecalciferol) 250IU
    S-adenosyl Methionine (stabilized SAMe) 45mg
    L-Theanine 50mg
    DMAE (dimethylethanolamine) 25mg
    Intrinsic Factor 5mg
    Proprietary Blend: 565mg
    ~Curcumin (as BCM-95)
    ~Quercetin (Saphorae japonica)
    ~ Rosemary (10% carnosic acid)
    ~ Sage (2% volatile oil)
    ~Gingko biloba (24/7 low acid)
    ~Green Tea (45% ECGC)
    ~Mucuna Pruriens (60% L-Dopa)
    ~ Treha Trehalose

    And another called Methyl Mate. Why the lactoferrin? Anyone know what that does?
    Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopherol succinate) 12.5 IU % DV 42%
    Vitamin B12 (hydroxocobalamin & Adenosyl [cobamamide]) 1500mcg % DV 25,000
    Selenium (L-selenomethionine) 12.5mcg % DV 35.7%
    Folinic Acid (calcium folinate) 5mcg % DV 2.5%
    L-Biopterin 12.5mcg
    NADH (as Panmol) stabilized 500mcg
    SAMe (S-adenosyl L-Methionine (Ion 12.5mg
    Phosphatidylserine (soy derived) 50.6mg
    Phosphatidylcholine (soy derived) 10mg
    Phosphatidylethanolamine (soy derived) 8.4mg
    Phosphatidylinositol (soy derived) 5.8mg
    Proprietary Extract Blend: 234mg
    ~Trehalose .
    ~Beef Liver ESubstance .
    ~Deoxyribnucleic Acid Sodium .
    ~Lactoferrin (bovine) .
    ~Intrinsic Factor (porcine)
    L-Carnosine .
    Thymidine 5'-Monophosphate Disodium Salt .
    Deoxycytidine 5'-Monophosphate Disodium Salt .
    DeoxyAdenosine Monophosphate .
  19. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

  20. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    Idie, I went to my doctor today. Unfortunately I did not fax him my questions in advance so I may not get a considered answer until my next appt Mar 20. But --

    My doctor agreed that my low dopamine, low serotonin, and low ubiquinol is due to BH4 deficiency and I can raise my dopamine by supplementing with tyrosine 500mg 2x/day since it bypasses the need for BH4 on that path. I do not know if this will take care of the shakes which I have developed for the last month since I stppped taking 42 pills (but cant seem to live w/o them). He also gave me BH4 (not Kuvan). I have not tried that yet. His BH4 costs $70 for a 2 month supply. Kuvn is MUCH more expensive. (My doctor is at

    As far as whether internal trembling is actually caused by an adrenal problem cascading to a thyroid problem and originating in low iron...the only response so far was to order me to get labs.

    So I tried the tyrosine and it seems to change the frequency of my trembling so that it wasn't so rapid, but it did not go away. I do not know how long it takes to make dopamine so cant tell yet if it will work.

    I'll let you know what I find.


    Brenda, thanks. But I get extensive hormone labs - a HUGE lab of every single metabolite yearly from Meridian Valley labs, and then also other hormonal labs such as regarding bioidentical hormone replacement additionally (these are blood test labs). So, no, I do not have high pregnenolone.

    However those of you with CFS/ME (which may be me in the futture as my doctor said one lab said I have auto-immune against the HPA (adrenal) axis), there is an nteresting article by Jacob Teitelbaum, M.D.
    hypothesizing that replacing the low pregnenolone of CFS might do the trick:

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